Mid-Range Game 8: Highborn Intrigue

[Guest]

See, I do look suspicious from the point of view that Winter brings up. Because I knew Wilson's role, it reflects badly on me that she died. However, I should point out that I only figured her role out indirectly. She blatantly told at least three people, among them STINK and Alvron. I'm not sure of the third. I've got a reasonable suspicion that she claimed to Winter as well.

So Wilson's role was relatively widely known, and I can only guess that the people she told told others. I'm not going to hide the fact that we discussed a lot, and if STINK wasn't dead, he could confirm that. Our suspicions were well known to each other. The code was made when we didn't know whether or not STINK was an Eliminator. We thought he slipped by revealing himself, and immediately came up with the code to foil him. After that, we both decided to townread him.

Unless you want to tar Wilson with the same brush, I don't think my vote on Mailliw is that suspicious. I still think that he's suspicious for saying that, and I vote him again in a heartbeat. For heaven's sakes, he didn't even defend himself.

The WGG is still an issue for me. As I said earlier, the Eliminators are celebrating at the confusion they caused. At this point, I doubt that I will be killed by them. By leaving me alive, they cause people to wonder why, in fact, I am still alive if I'm a villager.

And by noting the above fact, I just gave myself a perfect excuse to live. Essentially, no matter what you say about me, the fact that you say it causes me to be more suspicious, and my subsequent actions will be looked at in the light of that suspicion.

Eventually, you guys will kill me; it's just a matter of sooner or later. The Eliminators have done their work well, all it took was a combination of luck and my normal playstyle.

[Clanky he/him]

 

 

@a smart guy: I said that I could get behind a lynch on Mailli because I both had my own suspicions of him (based on an interaction where I tried to refrain from stating the name of a player who sent me a private message asking for my role yet he repeatedly insisted it was Stink and not him, which came off to me as extremely unnecessary) and I trusted a bit too much in wilson’s opinions.  The reason why I had second thoughts was because Venture was among those who I was suspicious of and keeping an eye out for but had not nearly posted enough to affirm them. Lastly, I did not say there should be more votes on Mailli specifically. I had completely forgotten about Con Artists and that they had gained the Worldsinger ability from the previous days lynch. Prior to that realization I was all for inciting a tie, and if you look at the wording of my post I was asking what everyone else’s opinions were on it. I by no means said let’s do this! I am unsure of why Clanky and Honey jumped on it so fast, however. I will note the odd wording used in their posts (for example, “voting shenanigans"). 

 

 

 

I hope this clarifies my thought process.

 

@Alvom I had placed my vote at that point because of the possibility of a con artist and worldsinger eliminator. The vote was within 2 and those two could have created a tie vote. I know people don't like bandwagons and I count myself among those people. However I hate tie votes more. If I were an eliminator with the possibility to tie up the vote (anonymously) I would in almost all situations. 

 

Also vote shenanigans is commonly used wording in SE.

[Seonid he/him]

With regard to why the night vote didn't go through, has anyone considered the possibility that the vote was on Stink? If the vote went on him, but he was killed, then we'd have a situation like the one we see. The other option is a tie. Honestly, I don't see the lack of a night vote as all that important this cycle. Either of those two situations gives us little to no information beyond what we already know.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Ok, I have returned, so am just checking in to say so, and will read through the previous now at length. If anyone wants to prepare a brief summary that would be appreciated, but isn't necessary.

[Alvron he/him]

See, I do look suspicious from the point of view that Winter brings up. Because I knew Wilson's role, it reflects badly on me that she died. However, I should point out that I only figured her role out indirectly. She blatantly told at least three people, among them STINK and Alvron. I'm not sure of the third. I've got a reasonable suspicion that she claimed to Winter as well.

So Wilson's role was relatively widely known, and I can only guess that the people she told told others. I'm not going to hide the fact that we discussed a lot, and if STINK wasn't dead, he could confirm that. Our suspicions were well known to each other. The code was made when we didn't know whether or not STINK was an Eliminator. We thought he slipped by revealing himself, and immediately came up with the code to foil him. After that, we both decided to townread him.

Correction:  She only told Stink.  I worked it out from what she said but at no stage did Wilson tell me her role.  Also from what I've learnt five people at least knew her role during night 2.  The first I don't know who it was but Wilson did hint strongly in a PM with them, second was Stink and she only contacted him at first to tell him that she had revealed her role to another.  Third and fourth were Winter and Kipper, I don't know which was first but from what I've learnt that Stink revealed Wilsons role to you.  I was the fifth to know her role and I learnt it via the hints she dropped plus what I saw in other PMs.

 

Admittedly the first person could've been Winter making it only four that knew her role but that is unlikely as Wilson told me that she contacted that person because they were making mistakes in thread and she wanted to help and that doesn't sound like Winter to me.

[Sart he/him]

I can spoil that mystery for you Alvron. Wilson contacted me about my assassin plan, warning that if a guardsman was a likely target for corruption or kills, the plan would fall apart. I understood what she meant, and stopped talking about the plan in the thread. While I still think the plan was good, it wouldn't work if we couldn't guarantee our guardsman's safety. I didn't tell anyone about her role, especially since that would have painted a bigger target on her back.

[Guest]

I figured it out post-Winter (to the best of my knowledge), and then only because I implied to STINK that I had an idea of what it was already.

[Herowannabe he/him]

In the interest of full disclosure I should admit that Wilson told me her role as well. As best as I can tell it was around the same time she told Kipper. At least, in the pm right after she told me she said that Kipper knows now, too.

Without quoting or directly copying/pasting (which GMs typically consider a rule-violation. I don't know Renegade's stance on the subject), she basically told me at the beginning of day 2 that due to things I had said to her in our PMs and things that had happened in thread that she trusted me more than anyone else, and she told me her role.

(And since nobody wants to help out with my Contribution Crusade anymore, I might as well disclose everything)

What's interesting is that at the time, she phrasing she used was basically "well, since the eliminators probably know my role, the player I trust the most should, too." When I asked her what she meant she explained that in warning Sart about the fallacies of his follow-the-leader plan she implied what her role was, and was reasonably sure that Sart had figured it out. She expressed suspicions about some of Sart's behavior and I told her I'd keep an eye on him.

And then Wilson was killed.

And I have been watching Sart, and I have to say, nothing he's said has done anything to alleviate my suspicions. He seems to be walking that line that eliminators love to walk of being helpful but not TOO helpful. Twice now he has pointed out that a lynch train has formed without the eliminators offering an alternative lynch candidate, and then has proceeded to offer up an alternative lynch candidate, which reads to me as an eliminator trying to sow confusion.

So I have to withdraw my vote on Emerald101 and put it on Sart. No point in trying to watch him and glean information anymore.

EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure I just painted a huge target on my back for the eliminators. If we have any other Guardsmen out there, I would greatly appreciate being protected tonight.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Herowannabe

[Alvron he/him]

Thanks Sart and Hero for the information.

 

Personally I don't think any of those that Wilson revealed her role to are Eliminators.  Sure taking out a guardswoman is very useful, especially as it was Wilson but corrupting a guard then killing them would've been better.  Wilson would then kill whomever she was protecting, which knowing her and her information gathering it would've likely been someone with a powerful role and as all kills happen at the same time they could've killed her on the same night stopping her from revealing anything or putting one of their own in danger.  Two kills for the price of one.

[Herowannabe he/him]

Thanks Sart and Hero for the information.

 

Personally I don't think any of those that Wilson revealed her role to are Eliminators.  Sure taking out a guardswoman is very useful, especially as it was Wilson but corrupting a guard then killing them would've been better.  Wilson would then kill whomever she was protecting, which knowing her and her information gathering it would've likely been someone with a powerful role and as all kills happen at the same time they could've killed her on the same night stopping her from revealing anything or putting one of their own in danger.  Two kills for the price of one.

 

True, but Wilson was well aware that she was a likely candidate for being corrupted. I don't think she even tried protecting anyone last night, just in case she killed them instead. I do know that she was trying to get ahold of an artifabrian to clean her so that she could use her ability with confidence (which is probably why she revealed her role to so many people). The last I heard from her she thought that she had managed to get in touch with an artifabrian (I don't know who). I don't know how many people knew that, but if the eliminators got wind of it they probably decided it would be better to kill her than have an artifabrian-protected guardsman running around, especially when that guardsman is the great and terrible Wilson. 

[RavenRadient7 she/her]

Alvron, corrupting a guard and letting them kill other players only really works if the guard in question isn't able to get to an artifabrain and get cleared, even if for at least one turn. Wilson seems like a likely target for a fear-corrupt, especially considering she was the fear-vote of the Brightlord vote at the beginning.

 

Hero, it's also possible the artifabrain was an eliminator, and was the one who made sure she was the next target. I'm not saying I'm sure that's the case, but it's a possibility.

 

Since Wilson's discussions with other players seem to be the major point of discussion at the moment, I'll say that I was never in PM contact with her, nor did I guess her role. I think she was a bit too suspicious of me to be willing to open a PM and possibly spread information to the eliminators, from her view of thinking. Or I was just too unknown.

[Alvron he/him]

True, but Wilson was well aware that she was a likely candidate for being corrupted. I don't think she even tried protecting anyone last night, just in case she killed them instead. I do know that she was trying to get ahold of an artifabrian to clean her so that she could use her ability with confidence (which is probably why she revealed her role to so many people). The last I heard from her she thought that she had managed to get in touch with an artifabrian (I don't know who). I don't know how many people knew that, but if the eliminators got wind of it they probably decided it would be better to kill her than have an artifabrian-protected guardsman running around, especially when that guardsman is the great and terrible Wilson. 

Would it matter?  If I was an eliminator I would've corrupted Wilson on day 2 then killed her on night 3 so the Artifabrian would've been useless.  If Wilson tried to protect someone I would've gain an extra kill, either way Wilson would still be dead.  Fact is that Wilson was not corrupted, according to the write up, so the eliminators didn't seem to know her role.

[Herowannabe he/him]

Hero, it's also possible the artifabrain was an eliminator, and was the one who made sure she was the next target. I'm not saying I'm sure that's the case, but it's a possibility.

It's possible. It's possible that ANY of us who were in PM contact with her was an Eliminator. It's also possible that none of us were and the Eliminators didn't know anything and just decided to kill Wilson and got lucky. My point is that out of all the people Wilson was in contact with, she specifically suspected that Sart was an eliminator. 

 

Would it matter?  If I was an eliminator I would've corrupted Wilson on day 2 then killed her on night 3 so the Artifabrian would've been useless.  If Wilson tried to protect someone I would've gain an extra kill, either way Wilson would still be dead.  Fact is that Wilson was not corrupted, according to the write up, so the eliminators didn't seem to know her role.

 

Sure it would matter. Why would the eliminators waste a corrupt action on someone they suspected was being cleaned by the Artifabrian at the same time? Or maybe they had someone else they wanted to corrupt? Or maybe Wilson was inadvertantly planning on protecting one of the eliminators, so they couldn't corrupt her without losing one of their own?

 

I don't really believe that last one (I still suspect Sart), but still, its a possibility. 

[Haelbarde he/him]

I'll jump in here and say I had a PM open with Wilson also. At one point, she said that she was in communication with a guardsman, so had I actually stopped to think, I could have guessed she meant her self. Regarding Hero's comments, I am willing to trust Wilson's judgment (and Hero's honesty) enough (plus the fact I'm not convinced about Raven) to shift my vote from Winter to Sart.

 

Vote Tally:

Raven(3): Clanky, Kipper, Adamir

Araris(1): Alvom

Venture(1): Araris

Alvom(1): Sart

Sart(2): Hero, Hael

 

Vote Tally (With History):

Raven(3): Clanky, Kipper, Adamir{2}, Macen{1}

Emerald(0): Hero{1}

Araris(1): Adamir{1}, Alvom

Alvron(0): Lopen{1}, Raven{1}, 

Venture(1): Araris

Alvom(1): Sart

Winter(0): Hael{1}

Sart(2): Hero{2}, Hael{2}

[The Honey Badger he/him]

By sart do you guys mean, A Smart Guy? That's what I thought, but I haven't been sure. 

 

If it is A Smart Guy, I have talked to him in PM and I believe him to be trustworthy. I don't believe he is responsible for Wilson's death. If she was telling he role, any of those people could've told another person that was an eliminator. I don't care if this paints suspicion on me, but I believe him to be innocent. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by The Honey Badger

[Emerald101 he/him]

Research done. I was tallying up posts to see who needed a proverbial knock on the door at 4 am from the Contribution KGB Crusade. Most everyone has been active enough, with the exception of Emerald101, whose last post was on Friday, saying that he would be on the next morning with some analysis, then hasn't been online since. Well Emerald, are you still around? Do you have any analysis for us?

 

I extremely regret my recent inability to contribute. Important (and unforeseen) events interrupted with my ability to play this game. I enjoy SE,  but it ranks low on my list of priorities, and definitely well below certain issues that have come to an unexpected head over these last couple of days. The issues in question are (mostly) resolved at this point, but do to the pressures of school and the job I was recently offered, I will not be able to play with my usual level of activity. 

 

That said, I do intend to continue with this game. Please just remember that I have a lot to catch up on, and that I have a lot on my plate right now, and I'm still learning to balance all of it. I am confident that I'll still have the time, but it'll take me a bit to be back up to full capacity.

 

Edit: grammar.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Emerald101

[Clanky he/him]

Corruption is not revealed upon death if I remember correctly so Wilson very well may have been corrupted and just been targeted by an artifabrian

Edit for grammar

Edited August 27, 2015 by Clanky

[Renegade he/him]

89 minutes left in the cycle!

[Sart he/him]

Sart is the name of my first character on these boards, all the way back in LG4. It's kind of become my nickname. One of these days I should really change my username to that.

 

Anyways, why am I getting voted on? Look at the vote tallies from day 1. I tied the votes between Rippleglyff and Honey. Why would an Eliminator put his own teammate in jeopardy? It doesn't make any sense. Furthermore, why is it that the two people who actually threatened to lynch an Eliminator are on the chopping block? The main point of evidence against Raven is this Wilson quote.

 

Raven's was because she recommended the lynching inactives train when people were discussing actives, and there was some good discussion going on about those actives. Throwing out the possibility of lynching inactives is a good way to be seen as participating and offering good ideas without really offering anything of use that will help the village. Now, I don't really want to hit on that too hard, since I've been known to get behind the lynch on inactives as well. On Day 1. That's mostly only when it's the very last few hours of the cycle and no one who's been discussed has struck me as suspicious enough to be lynched. At that point, I actually prefer to tie the vote and not have anyone lynched, but I understand that there are plenty of people who disagree and feel that information is necessary--information pertaining directly to the role and alignment of the lynchee. I get the reasons for that, even if I personally disagree with it. So yeah. I'm okay lynching inactives when the time calls for it. But only when the time calls for it.

 

While it is true that Raven was following the consensus of Ripple and STINK to lynch an inactive, it was only until Hero suggested Phattemer that the lynch train started. I find it extreme odd that Wilson would distrust Raven for wanting to lynch an inactive and yet trust you the most the next day, after you did exactly what she thought was suspicious! I'm sorry, but this doesn't add up. I'm voting for you Hero. I can vaguely follow the logic of Alvom, especially since he is a new player. I just can't understand Wilson's logic in trusting you. Either she's a hypocrite, there were ardent shenanigans involved, or you're lying about her trusting you. Which is it?

[Herowannabe he/him]

I enjoy SE, but it ranks low on my list of priorities...

Well that alone is reason enough to lynch you.

J/k thanks for checking in, and the Contribution Crusade will keep that in mind. I hope all is well with you and work and school and life and everything.

Edit: just saw Sart's post:

I assure you that I am being completely honest. Wilson and I discussed Raven in our PM after she (Wilson) posted her suspicions of her, and right after I began the Contribution Crusade. I said that obviously I couldn't condemn anyone for wanting to lynch inactives, since I had done just that. Wilson said that that was different, because (in her opinion) I had good reasons and Raven didn't. And that was all we said about that.

I realize that that's not an outstanding defense by any stretch, but that's how our conversation actually played out. :\

As for your day 1 vote on Ripple- I admit that I don't have an explanation for that. However there are lots of possibilities I can see. Your vote was early in the cycle, so maybe you threw it on her with the intend to change it later, but then saw that you didn't need to. Or maybe you did it to avoid suspicion later if ripple ended up getting lynched (a common eliminator tactic). Or maybe it was a simple mistake (even eliminators can make those) like you didn't realize ripple was that close to being lynched. I don't know. That lone vote is the only thing that gives me any doubt about you being guilty. The other 90% of me, however, whispers that I should leave my vote on you...

Edited August 27, 2015 by Herowannabe

[Guest]

Post-Winter? You figured it out before I did.

No I didn't. But I knew you knew, so I implied that I did know it and was just curious about her alignment. I don't actually remember whether you or STINK revealed it to me first, but I'm pretty sure it was STINK. She would NEVER reveal her role to me, tbh. I don't think I'm ever going to be that trustworthy to her.

Thanks Sart and Hero for the information.

 

Personally I don't think any of those that Wilson revealed her role to are Eliminators.

I do. I've had suspicion of sart since D1, and several people know that from when I've said it in PMs.

Sure taking out a guardswoman is very useful, especially as it was Wilson but corrupting a guard then killing them would've been better.  Wilson would then kill whomever she was protecting, which knowing her and her information gathering it would've likely been someone with a powerful role and as all kills happen at the same time they could've killed her on the same night stopping her from revealing anything or putting one of their own in danger.  Two kills for the price of one.  

True, but Wilson was well aware that she was a likely candidate for being corrupted. I don't think she even tried protecting anyone last night, just in case she killed them instead.

This is true; we discussed this, and to the best of my knowledge, she did not protect anyone.

I do know that she was trying to get ahold of an artifabrian to clean her so that she could use her ability with confidence (which is probably why she revealed her role to so many people). The last I heard from her she thought that she had managed to get in touch with an artifabrian (I don't know who). I don't know how many people knew that...

The person that she thought was an Artifabrian turned out not to be. Or at least the person she thought was an Artifabrian hardclaimed a different role, which is currently unverified, but I suspect it to be true.

...but if the eliminators got wind of it they probably decided it would be better to kill her than have an artifabrian-protected guardsman running around, especially when that guardsman is the great and terrible Wilson.

This is true, and I have a suspicion as to who that Eliminator might be, but I'll wait until next Day.

[Herowannabe he/him]

just pointing out that I made an edit to my last post, but it was ninja'd by Kipper.

[Seonid he/him]

Hmm...no blatant target is sticking out to me right now. My heaviest suspicions are on hero and sart. Both are experienced players (and therefore could have deceived Wilson), both knew Wilson's role. Both could still be innocent, but they are the most suspicious too me right now. At present, the only thing that differentiates them is sart's vote on ripple. So I think that my vote goes on Hero

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Would tying the vote right now be a bad idea? Because right now I'm leaning more towards voting for Sart, but if no one is lynched today its seems like we wouldn't get anything out of it.

 

Edit: grammar stuff

Edited August 27, 2015 by TheMightyLopen

[Seonid he/him]

Tying the vote would let us see any worldsinger shenanigans, but if there aren't any, then it probably isn't worth it.

In general, if you are sure that someone is good and want to save them, tying is worth it. If you just have stronger suspicions on another player, it's much more dubious of a move.