Craters?

[Tarontos he/him]

Does any body know how in the world there came to be ten massive craters on one plateau in the shattered plains. the only thing i can think of is their being soul cast but that would take big gems? 

 

P.S. i will be unresponsive for a day or two from this post.

 

[Shardlet he/him]

Dang it, you got to this before I did.  I have been planning a thread for this topic.  More to follow from me tonight at 8:30 (7:30 central)  .

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Seeing as how there are 10 of them it's not just a random thing. 

[hoser he/him]

Seeing as how there are 10 of them it's not just a random thing. 

nor that they are on the edge of the Shattered plains.  Could they be the impacts that shattered the plains?

 

Edit: spell "shattered" with an "h"

Edited July 20, 2013 by hoser

[Windrunner he/him]

Everything I've read points to an impact in the center of the Plains.

 

WoR Spoilers

This may or may not be relevant, but the Parshendi used to live in those craters..

[Shardlet he/him]

Well,

given the Eshonai reading I am less inclined to think an impact shattered the shattered plains.  Think of the amount of energy it would take to cause that shattering.  The coated city where the Parshendi are living now at the center of the shattered plains would have been absolutely obliterated.  In contrast it seems to be, although quite crem encrusted, largely intact.

 

As to the craters, there are ten of them in a nice pretty arc at the edge of the plains.  This suggests to me that the craters came after the shattering of the plains.  Ten Heralds.  10 Unnamed? I suspect they resulted from something that one of these groups did.

[hoser he/him]

Everything I've read points to an impact in the center of the Plains.

 

WoR Spoilers

This may or may not be relevant, but the Parshendi used to live in those craters..

Speculating wildly, an arc of impacts would have created intense interference patterns at the focus of the arc.  The width of the fissures in the plains also increases as you move away from the craters.  Wouldn't a central impact have created more symmetrical effects?

[Shardlet he/him]

The craters are all (apparently) happy circles.  If the action(s) of what made the craters (impacts?) caused the shattering of the plains then I would expect there to be fissures all around the craters (especially the backside).  If impacts at an angle directed most of the force of the impacts into the plains (which are now shattered), then I would not expect happy circular craters. 

[Morsk he/him]

I never noticed this! I thought the war camps were just clearings the Alethi made. Did none of them wonder how strange it was to have 10 clearings already made for them? I guess on this world, if you do things in sets of 10, like have 10 Highprinces, sometimes you find convenient 10s in nature that accommodate you.

Is this the quote everyone's referring to, or are there more I missed?

Each of the ten warcamps filled its own crater, and was filled with an incongruous mix of Soulcast buildings, shanties, and tents. Some merchants, like the apothecary, had the money to build a wooden structure. Those who lived in tents took them down for storms, then paid for shelter elsewhere. Even within the crater, the stormwinds were strong, particularly where the outer wall was low or broken. Some places— like the lumberyard— were completely exposed.

The street bustled with the usual crowd. Women in skirts and blouses— the wives, sisters, or daughters of the soldiers, merchants, or craftsmen. Workers in trousers or overalls. A large number of soldiers in leathers, carrying spear and shield. All were Sadeas’s men. Soldiers of one camp didn’t mix with those of another, and you stayed away from another brightlord’s crater unless you had business there.

[hoser he/him]

The craters are all (apparently) happy circles.  If the action(s) of what made the craters (impacts?) caused the shattering of the plains then I would expect there to be fissures all around the craters (especially the backside).  If impacts at an angle directed most of the force of the impacts into the plains (which are now shattered), then I would not expect happy circular craters. 

My thesis is that the impacts were simultaneous and caused waves (earthquakes).  The waves would not cause fissures by themselves, but where multiple waves interfere constructively, fissures could form.  The greatest constructive interference would be at the center of the arc formed by the craters.  The pressure waves would keep going in the same direction. 

The waves going from the craters away from the center would not interfere as much and might not cause fissures.   This would explain the lack of fissures on the backside. 

Two problems I see with this scenario: 

1. I am postulating a set of seismic pressure waves that causes fissures at the points of greatest constructive interference.  The fissures form coincidentally with the wave and grow bigger.  Wouldn't there be a damping effect as the waves proceed?  The surface being rock would lower the damping, but the elasticity of the material should absorb some of the energy.  (Warning: I am not a geologist and am certainly using incorrect terminology)
2. These earthquakes and the corresponding shattering wave would be tremendous.  Could any structure, even if built to survive a Highstorm survive? Words of Radiance spoiler: 
   From the Words of Radiance readings, we know that there are somewhat intact structures at the center of the plains.

[Shardlet he/him]

The rub is, as you pointed out previously Hoser, there would be interference patterns resulting from such an event which would result in a grid of massive destruction each pocket of destruction surrounded by areas of lesser destruction until you reach pockets of no destruction.  In other words, there would be a distinct pattern of destruction visible even in the areas where the Alethi maps are very complete.  Yet, there is a sense of order to plateaus, but no discernible pattern given the info the Alethi have.

[Windrunner he/him]

I can't explain how the center plateau is still there, but TWoK seems fairly adamant that whatever happened occurred at the center.

He roared past the Shattered Plains. They looked as if something very large had hit them at the center, sending rippling breaks outward. They too were larger than he’d expected; no wonder nobody had been able to find their way through the chasms.

Perhaps not an impact, but some sort of explosion that originated at the center of the Plains, but somehow left the central plateau intact.

[Shardlet he/him]

I suspect that a massive burst of energy began in the center

city

and radiated outward from there.  Perhaps the center acted as something of a lens for this energy or perhaps the center was originally much larger and the present center is all that remained.  Perhaps Honor died in that location?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Shardlet

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Since this is a non visual thing it's quite hard to tell, but maybe they caused the land to rise up? Earthquakes are funny things. Just look at this picture from the Japanese quake back in 2011. Who knows how uniform or non-uniform an earthquake caused fissure would react when the quake might have been caused by Magic.

[Shardlet he/him]

It is going to mostly depend on the nature of the energy wave and the structural composition of the ground it is moving through.  If the ground is substantially uniform in composition and fairly consistently structured and all the energy waves fairly consistent in intensity and frequency, then the damage should be fairly uniform (in pattern). 

[hoser he/him]

I can't explain how the center plateau is still there, but TWoK seems fairly adamant that whatever happened occurred at the center.

Perhaps not an impact, but some sort of explosion that originated at the center of the Plains, but somehow left the central plateau intact.

Yes, good quote. 

 

That is not consistent with this map which has small breaks growing larger to the east. The easy explanation is that the map is only what the Alethi know and doesn't even reach the center of the Plains.  The implication would then be that the cracks get smaller as one gets further away from the center in all directions.  However, I also seem to remember in-book descriptions that have the cracks getting wider to the east. With the highstorms, erosion needs to be considered also.   

[Windrunner he/him]

I'm afraid I'm not following your inconsistency. If the explosion had originated in the center, the power would have been greater and the cracks larger, tapering off as the power weakens. Cracks to the east would then erode even more after time has gone by.

In addition to that, if I'm remembering correctly, no Alethi has ever seen the center of the Plains. Every scouting party was either washed away by a highstorm or eaten by a chasmfiend.

[Meg]

Everything I've read points to an impact in the center of the Plains.

 

WoR Spoilers

This may or may not be relevant, but the Parshendi used to live in those craters..

 

 

I must have missed this information, where does it come from? 

[Windrunner he/him]

It's from one of the Eshonai readings.

[Dahak he/him]

It's from one of the Eshonai readings.

 

 It is also mentioned IIRC when Shallan's reading up on Gavrilar's death in WoK.

 

I got the impression somewhere the craters used to be domed buildings back when the plains were a city.

[DocHoliday he/him]

I'm afraid I'm not following your inconsistency. If the explosion had originated in the center, the power would have been greater and the cracks larger, tapering off as the power weakens. Cracks to the east would then erode even more after time has gone by.

In addition to that, if I'm remembering correctly, no Alethi has ever seen the center of the Plains. Every scouting party was either washed away by a highstorm or eaten by a chasmfiend.

I've got to feel Shardlet is on the right track here. Think of Superman punching a wall of metal. There's probably a hole. Directly around said hole the metal is brutally pressed onward and twisted. Around  that damage the metal is likely buckeled and misshapen, etc...the damage grows less and less the further from the epicenter you get.

 

Now if we assume that The Tower is the epicenter, and keep in mind the Alethi scouts haven't made it to the other side of the plains, or the center of the plateaus to their mind. Then the map Hoser linked us with is consistent with the damage.

[Shardlet he/him]

The only thing that is not consistent is that, moving away from the epicenter you should see plateaus getting much larger and the chasms being smaller and spread further apart.  However, we see small chasms and smaller (generally) plateaus near the warcamps.  So, if the drawing is scripture and binding for physics et al., then neither model really holds up.

[DocHoliday he/him]

My feeling is that the g ground itself is shattered into pebbles and dust, that tube cracks are just smaller fissures rather than vast areas of demolished granite.

[Gloom he/him]

Okay, lets go with an explosion of in the center of the plains that radiated outward. Then lets add a couple thousand years of Highstorms coming in from the east. This would not only cause erosion, but a sandblasting effect from the large amount of debris the Highstorm throws around. This could explain the larger amount of erosion in the east.

 

Ten perfectly circular camps...Nature doesn't function this way. Craters are roughly circular, but not perfectly circular. This could of course be the cartographers interpretation, but if it isn't, the map would lead me to believe that these 'craters' are man made. A couple thousand years worth of crem deposits could mask this from anyone who wasn't trying to see a pattern.

 

Ten orders of Radiants. Around eight hundred missing Shardsets. Ten perfectly round 'craters'. A mandate from the Almighty to recover the Shards. Nevermind, I'm sure it's all just coincidence.

[DocHoliday he/him]

Okay, lets go with an explosion of in the center of the plains that radiated outward. Then lets add a couple thousand years of Highstorms coming in from the east. This would not only cause erosion, but a sandblasting effect from the large amount of debris the Highstorm throws around. This could explain the larger amount of erosion in the east.

 

Ten perfectly circular camps...Nature doesn't function this way. Craters are roughly circular, but not perfectly circular. This could of course be the cartographers interpretation, but if it isn't, the map would lead me to believe that these 'craters' are man made. A couple thousand years worth of crem deposits could mask this from anyone who wasn't trying to see a pattern.

 

Ten orders of Radiants. Around eight hundred missing Shardsets. Ten perfectly round 'craters'. A mandate from the Almighty to recover the Shards. Nevermind, I'm sure it's all just coincidence.

I'm totally missing wanna at you are hinting at. There was a civilization once at the Shattered Plains, so it's certainly possible that the craters have been terra formed before our after whatever caused the chasms. I always thought of Crem kinda like sleet and ice, filling in cracks and crevices first then covering everything over creating a smooth outer surface.