Spoiler: New Purelake reading Info.

[Meg]

If what the nine Heralds did meant they broke the Oathpact, does it mean they are no longer bound to the cycles of Damnation and Desolation?

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“Ishar believes that so long as there is one of us still bound to the Oathpact, it may be enough. There is a chance we might end the cycle of Desolations.”

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This is from the Prelude to TWoK. I think it's quite clear that the Heralds thought they could "end the cycle of Desolations" by leaving the Oathpact. For the nine of them that survived that meant leaving their Honorblades. For Taln it meant Damnation.

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I'm not convinced they're native to Roshar. Their immortality might be a result of where they come from. It could be the Shard that created them decided her/his people would be immortal.

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Humans had not been native on Roshar ... they were cast out of the Tranquiline Halls to Roshar and had to find ways to survive in their new home.

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According to the mythology of the world, mankind used to live in The Tranquiline Halls. Heaven. Well, a group of evil spirits known as the Voidbringers assaulted and captured heaven, casting out God and men. Men took root on Roshar, the world of storms, but the Voidbringers chased them there, trying to push them off of Roshar and into Damnation.

source

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And more of this interview because it's interesting:

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The voidbringers came against man a hundred by a hundred times, trying to destroy them or push them away. To help them cope, the Almighty gave men powerful suits of armor and mystical weapons, known as Shardblades. Led by ten angelic Heralds and ten orders of knights known as Radiants, men resisted the Voidbringers ten thousand times, finally winning and finding peace.

Or so the legends say. Today, the only remnants of those supposed battles are the Shardblades, the possession of which makes a man nearly invincible on the battlefield. The entire world, essentially, is at war with itself—and has been for centuries since the Radiants turned against mankind. Kings strive to win more Shardblades, each secretly wishing to be the one who will finally unite all of mankind under a single throne.

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I dare remark that Dros' quote is from April 2004 and mine from July 2009. And: I think neither of them has an "absolute" value now in 2013.

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But back to the Heralds: My idea is that they were normal people who were chosen by Honor (and Cultivation?) to become Heralds, leaders and inspiring examples for mankind to defy Desolations and Voidbringers. To be able to stand this task they were given special abilities (Surgebinding(?), their Honorblades, their "immortality" and perhaps others, we don't even think of).

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We know that Shalash is Jezrien's daughter, and I think this is a strong argument for my idea.

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[Dros]

I dare remark that Dros' quote is from April 2004 and mine from July 2009. And: I think neither of them has an "absolute" value now in 2013.

 

 

For sure, he might have changed his focus since then. However, one of the things I wanted to point out was he called the Heralds "beings", not people. Interesting choice of words, I thought.

[Meg]

For sure, he might have changed his focus since then. However, one of the things I wanted to point out was he called the Heralds "beings", not people. Interesting choice of words, I thought.

I hope my post didn't sound critical. This wasn't my intention.

[Dros]

Not at all, Meg. Just a discussion

[marianmi]

Well, Honor could have turned them immortal, like TLR made the kandra immortal.

The Damnation torture is part of the Oathpact.

Most of us assumed that the Oathpact was created to stop Honour and Odium fighting, or something like this. But what if that's not true?

 

TIME FOR A CRAZY THEORY!

 

What if the Oathpact was actually an alliance made between Honour and Odium? To fight together against the voidbringers?

Where fight together = they will both invest in Roshar into objects of power. Like Odium would create the shardblades, and Honour would create the plates. Then somehow Honour grew weaker (maybe because of the KR) and Odium took advantage and killed him. That's why then Syl (Honour) now hates blades (Odium).

 

 

TIME FOR ANOTHER CRAZY THEORY

 

The Oathpact was made between Honour, Cultivation, Odium and the other shard in the system, and basically determined that each shard would stick to their own planets and not interfere on another planet. Cultivation made Roshar from a barren land (like the other planets) into ... well, that it is today), and Honour created humans... Again, the voidbringers are not aligned with shards.

[Gloom he/him]

You going to put those theories in the I told you so thread?

[marianmi]

No, they were more like random thoughts I just wrote w/o thinking much...

But who know, maybe someone might find somewhat useful there

[Dros]

Well, Honor could have turned them immortal, like TLR made the kandra immortal.

The Damnation torture is part of the Oathpact.

Most of us assumed that the Oathpact was created to stop Honour and Odium fighting, or something like this. But what if that's not true?

 

TIME FOR A CRAZY THEORY!

 

What if the Oathpact was actually an alliance made between Honour and Odium? To fight together against the voidbringers?

Where fight together = they will both invest in Roshar into objects of power. Like Odium would create the shardblades, and Honour would create the plates. Then somehow Honour grew weaker (maybe because of the KR) and Odium took advantage and killed him. That's why then Syl (Honour) now hates blades (Odium).

 

 

TIME FOR ANOTHER CRAZY THEORY

 

The Oathpact was made between Honour, Cultivation, Odium and the other shard in the system, and basically determined that each shard would stick to their own planets and not interfere on another planet. Cultivation made Roshar from a barren land (like the other planets) into ... well, that it is today), and Honour created humans... Again, the voidbringers are not aligned with shards.

 

I believe that has been discussed before, but when WOB came down that Odium was trying to kill all the rest of the Shardbearers and splinter the Shards, it kind of killed that line of thought. However, I still like the jist of the theory. It seems like a good twist to the story, in my opinion. Brandon has said there is another force out there opposing the Shards or something like that.

 

And, really, even if Odium is trying to kill the rest of the Shards, that doesn't mean they didn't start out allied against a common foe, I guess. My thought on it was it seemed strange that Honor didn't think Odium would try to kill him...he seemed like he was kicking himself for not seeing it coming. Which is weird, if you're at war with a guy you might want to be prepared for him to come after you. 

[marianmi]

Yes, he seemed ... surprised

[Meg]

Well, Honor could have turned them immortal, like TLR made the kandra immortal. (1)

The Damnation torture is part of the Oathpact. (2)

Most of us assumed that the Oathpact was created to stop Honour and Odium fighting, or something like this. But what if that's not true?

 

TIME FOR A CRAZY THEORY!

 

What if the Oathpact was actually an alliance made between Honour and Odium? To fight together against the voidbringers? (3)

(...)

 

TIME FOR ANOTHER CRAZY THEORY

 

The Oathpact was made between Honour, Cultivation, Odium and the other shard in the system, and basically determined that each shard would stick to their own planets and not interfere on another planet. Cultivation made Roshar from a barren land (like the other planets) into ... well, that it is today), and Honour created humans... Again, the voidbringers are not aligned with shards. (4)

 

Because the editor hates me I've put those remarks in the quote.

 

(1) Kandra aren't immortal (deathless, invulnerable). We know for sure that they can be killed (TenSoon killed OreSeur).

 

As a side note: I understand the word "immortal" as not only having an endless lifespan (so not dying by age), thus immortal means: doesn't die by age and cannot be killed.

 

(2) I think most of us agree to this, it's not a new point.

 

(3) My gut feeling says this is very unlikely (though my gut feeling has no evidence ).

 

(4) "The other shard"? I might have missed something again. Is there WoB that there is only one other Shard in the Greater Roshar System? And: How does your idea fit with Odiums "visit" on Sel?

 

 

[WeiryWriter he/him]

(1) Kandra aren't immortal (deathless, invulnerable). We know for sure that they can be killed (TenSoon killed OreSeur).

 

As a side note: I understand the word "immortal" as not only having an endless lifespan (so not dying by age), thus immortal means: doesn't die by age and cannot be killed.

 

Technically, yes, that is the "correct" definition of immortal and we shouldn't use "immortality" to describe people who are in reality "ageless".  However, we do it anyway.  This is one of those weird things in the english language, where everyone knows that we are using the wrong word, but we don't care because people understand we are trying to say.

 

Basically immortal when used colloquially, like we are using it here, does not differentiate between true immortality, like you describe, and agelessness because if a person is ageless they are effectively immortal.

[marianmi]

Because the editor hates me I've put those remarks in the quote.

 

(1) Kandra aren't immortal (deathless, invulnerable). We know for sure that they can be killed (TenSoon killed OreSeur).

 

As a side note: I understand the word "immortal" as not only having an endless lifespan (so not dying by age), thus immortal means: doesn't die by age and cannot be killed.

 

(2) I think most of us agree to this, it's not a new point.

 

(3) My gut feeling says this is very unlikely (though my gut feeling has no evidence ).

 

(4) "The other shard"? I might have missed something again. Is there WoB that there is only one other Shard in the Greater Roshar System? And: How does your idea fit with Odiums "visit" on Sel?

 

(1) In this case there is no immortality - shards are not immortal, since they can be splintered, shardholders are not immortal, since they can be killed. Instead of reserving the word for a concept that does not exist/will not exist/it's impossible, let's use it for something that exists - which is something like "capable of living forever". Heck, even the "deathless" can die in Brandon's work Such as kandra would live forever if not bathed in acid, shardholders would live forever if not killed by other shards, and heralds would live forever, if not [... this thing that we will probably see in SA book x].

 

(3) yes, well, some things should surprise everyone, right? We all love a plot twist.

 

(4) Per WoB, there are 4 shards in the Roshar greater system: H + C on Roshar, Odium on another planet, and a fourth shard on yet another planet. There has been talk about why the 4 orders in the corner of the radiant map have one extra connection, and my theory is that those orders use a spren that is full splinter of a shard, e.g. windrunners spren is 100% honorspren, edgedancer spren (wyndle) is 100% cultivation, shallan's cryptic is 100% maybe adonalsium, leaving the great unknown for the stonewardens. 

[The Rooster he/him]

 

 

(4) Per WoB, there are 4 shards in the Roshar greater system: H + C on Roshar, Odium on another planet, and a fourth shard on yet another planet. There has been talk about why the 4 orders in the corner of the radiant map have one extra connection, and my theory is that those orders use a spren that is full splinter of a shard, e.g. windrunners spren is 100% honorspren, edgedancer spren (wyndle) is 100% cultivation, shallan's cryptic is 100% maybe adonalsium, leaving the great unknown for the stonewardens. 

 

 

I think it's unlikely anything will be "100% Adonalsium" since Adonalsium isn't even 100% Adonalsium anymore.

[Shardlet he/him]

Yeah, but the Adonalsium spren resulted from power left by Adonalsium pre-shattering.  So they would be 100% Adonalsium.  What remains unseen, of course, is are these Ado-spren KR bonding spren and more specifically, are they the cryptics as marianmi posits.  

[Arook he/him]

 

 

(4) Per WoB, there are 4 shards in the Roshar greater system: H + C on Roshar, Odium on another planet, and a fourth shard on yet another planet. There has been talk about why the 4 orders in the corner of the radiant map have one extra connection, and my theory is that those orders use a spren that is full splinter of a shard, e.g. windrunners spren is 100% honorspren, edgedancer spren (wyndle) is 100% cultivation, shallan's cryptic is 100% maybe adonalsium, leaving the great unknown for the stonewardens. 

 

What map are you referring to?

[Shardlet he/him]

The radiant table in the front cover.  The four corner orders each have lines connecting them to four other orders while the rest only are connected to three other orders.

[Arook he/him]

Don't know how I missed that the first time thanks. I would guess of some special relation ship between the connected orders not a spren distinction, but who knows could be. I would think like a commonality of the orders individual ideals.