Theory: Gemhearts are the body of Cultivation

[Vortaan he/him]

That is where my mind went... I'm not sold that surgebinding is of both Shards, but if it is, the Old Magic seems to be a matter of direct-intervention on the part of Cultivation. If Honor has ever directly intervened, it would be the Heralds, yes? I can see a scenario where Honor and Cultivation, a romantic couple, would craft one system of magic between them. Only when Odium showed up did they find cause to act seperately, and direct intervention (old magic/heralds) could be the result. Like how Ati made all that atium which ostensibly is not as "powerful" as lerasium, but he made just a few beads, Cultivation could have a great number of people with tiny gifts (offset by curses) while Honor made just ten individuals with power beyond imagining.

 

I'm still not sold on the idea, but I certainly see it as more than plausible.

 

The problem I have here is that I don't think Shards choose their magic systems, I think it's just a natural consequence of Shardic presence. So you get your Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy from two Shards existing on the same world and the natural interactions between the world and the Shards. So taking that same example to Roshar, there should be an Honor magic, a Cultivation magic, and an Odium magic. There should also be magics that are combinations of all three, or any two of the three. So that's... what, 7 magic systems total?

[WeiryWriter he/him]

The problem I have here is that I don't think Shards choose their magic systems, I think it's just a natural consequence of Shardic presence. So you get your Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy from two Shards existing on the same world and the natural interactions between the world and the Shards. So taking that same example to Roshar, there should be an Honor magic, a Cultivation magic, and an Odium magic. There should also be magics that are combinations of all three, or any two of the three. So that's... what, 7 magic systems total?

 

I believe that that is a theory that has been brought up before but I'm disinclined to support it based on a couple of facts.  One, Sel has two shards but only really has a single manifestation of investiture, what we generally refer to as separate magics (i.e. AonDor, Forgery, ChayShan) are in actuality variations of a single system.  And on Roshar Brandon has said that there are either 10 systems or 30 "depending on how you count them".  My personal explanation, and this is just a theory, is that the first counts the manipulation of each surge where as the second splits it depending on how it is accessed (i.e. according to the first surgbinding-gravity, voidbinding-gravity, and fabrial-gravity would count as the same magic system, the second would separate them).  I don't know how likely it is, but it makes since to me.

 

(On a side note I don't include the Old Magic in that explanation because I think it is a result of direct shardic influence as opposed to being a manifestation of investiture)

[Oudeis he/him]

The problem I have here is that I don't think Shards choose their magic systems, I think it's just a natural consequence of Shardic presence.

 

 

Possible, likely, and valid. I think systems of Investiture do largely just 'happen' though I'd be surprised if Shards didn't have the capacity to direct it at least a little.

 

That said, I think we've seen in the Cosmere that apart from the systems of magic, Shards can still (barring a strange balance like Scadrial had) directly intervene whenever they like. So Surgebinding is one thing, but the Old Magic and the Heralds are chosen by the Shards themselves because technically they aren't exactly a system of Investiture. Just one man's opinion.

 

Why is everyone named ookla?

[Shardlet he/him]

Why is everyone named ookla?

 

You will find the answer you seek by clicking here.

[Vortaan he/him]

Possible, likely, and valid. I think systems of Investiture do largely just 'happen' though I'd be surprised if Shards didn't have the capacity to direct it at least a little.

 

That said, I think we've seen in the Cosmere that apart from the systems of magic, Shards can still (barring a strange balance like Scadrial had) directly intervene whenever they like. So Surgebinding is one thing, but the Old Magic and the Heralds are chosen by the Shards themselves because technically they aren't exactly a system of Investiture. Just one man's opinion.

 

Why is everyone named ookla?

 

I don't doubt that they can effect the system itself, we obviously see Leras and Sazed monkey around with Allomancy. I just wonder if maybe that's all they can do, change a few of the base rules. I agree that outside of a weird push/pull situation, Shards should be able to directly interact with the world ala Old Magic or Herald choosing... but I suppose that still brings up the question of what an Honor-only magic system would look like on Roshar? So... we'd have to assume it uses either gemstones or Stormlight, is probably more intention-aligned then genetic, and would probably revolve around binding things, not necessarily physical things.

[Shardlet he/him]

So... we'd have to assume it uses either gemstones or Stormlight...

 

I don't think that we'd have to make that assumption unless we make the same assumption regarding Cultivation and Odium.  So far, I haven't seen any evidence that the old magic uses either gemstones or stormlight.

[Aether he/him]

I don't think that we'd have to make that assumption unless we make the same assumption regarding Cultivation and Odium.  So far, I haven't seen any evidence that the old magic uses either gemstones or stormlight.

And if the Nightwatcher really is Cultivation (though it is largely assumed that he/she is), there is little reason to think she would need Stormlight at all to perform her "magic".

[Oudeis he/him]

Except that the Old Magic doesn't seem to be a system of Investiture, it seems to just be a Shard directly affecting the world, like when Vin or Rashek took the power at the Well.

[Vortaan he/him]

I don't think that we'd have to make that assumption unless we make the same assumption regarding Cultivation and Odium.  So far, I haven't seen any evidence that the old magic uses either gemstones or stormlight.

 

Drawing a parallel to Scadrial, both Shards manifest through metal because that's a consequence of being tied to Scadrial. It stands to reason that every magic system on Roshar has either gemstones or Stormlight in common. I'd say spren, but their complete absence in Shinovar leads me to believe that they might not be the common factor we're looking for.