Mid-Range Game 9: The Steel Ministry

[Creccio he/him]

One question Joe... What happens if no lurcher protects you and the Skaa swiftly kill you? Are we to not know the plan that might have won the game?

 

Just sayin'

[nicocoberru she/her]

Okay, first off, you all live in wonky timezones compared to me. I just slept for a few hours and you all already generated four pages od discussion.

Second, I'm fine with going with Joe's plan? I mean at the very least, it's a plan. I'd rather we do something other than killing ourselves. As for the limited use of metals, well, we were given them to use. Not using the metals is also wasting it. At the very least, give it one cycle, I think. Of course, if anyone has a better plan then go.

The possibilities:

A. Joe uses tin, lurcher lurches him:

- Joe finds out who the lurcher is and finally tells us his whole 47 steps plan

B. Someone soothes him.

- We learn that the Skaa has a Soother

C. If Joe is evil

- Uuuh. IDK how we'll find out, but we lynch him? Or a coinshot kills him.

D. If Joe and Lurcher is evil and this is one of their convulted plans

- ???

Well, those are the only things in my mind. Anyone care to fill in the blanks?

How does one use emoji's on Mobile? I want to do the huge grin emoji after the above sentence.

Would these kamojis do the job?

(＾▽＾)（‐＾▽＾‐）(^～^)（￣ー￣）（ｖ＾＿＾）ｖ

[Alvron he/him]

You all sure can talk.  Four pages in less than 24 hours?

 

Alv, did the PoJ come true from your end?

You know I'm not just going to answer that.  I can say that you should have the answer by the start of the next cycle.

 

Also:

Also please try and remember to place your votes in Red and if you later retract them, color them in Green in the original post as well!

Kipper, you didn't retract your vote on Wyrm in your original post like Gamma asked so your vote on him still counts.

 

 

Ripple.  It's mostly a gut feeling from your first post but I'm going to follow it and see where it leads.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Alvron

[Mailliw73 he/him]

You know I'm not just going to answer that.  I can say that you should have the answer by the start of the next cycle.

I was hoping. ... I sure hope that doesn't mean what I think it means.

[A Joe in the Bush]

One question Joe... What happens if no lurcher protects you and the Skaa swiftly kill you? Are we to not know the plan that might have won the game?

 

Just sayin'

Unlikely, and there's nothing I can do about it. *Shrugs*

 

A. Joe uses tin, lurcher lurches him:

- Joe finds out who the lurcher is and finally tells us his whole 47 steps plan

B. Someone soothes him.

- We learn that the Skaa has a Soother

C. If Joe is evil

- Uuuh. IDK how we'll find out, but we lynch him? Or a coinshot kills him.

D. If Joe and Lurcher is evil and this is one of their convulted plans

- ???

A and B are correct.

 

C. kinda makes sense I suppose. If I were an Eliminator it would get me the name of a lurcher. But I feel like it wouldn't work since if any lurcher dies soon I would be under major suspicion.

 

D. Doesn't make sense. If I was evil and was going to have a teammate lurch me, i would just fake it. Say so and so and so visited me, so he must be a lurcher, y'all should trust him. (That's not what I'll be doing if I find a lurcher though.) So I can't really think of any plan that would work for me and the lurcher being evil. Onbe or the other I could buy.

[Clanky he/him]

I think that if you were doing this as a Skaa Joe then you would be doing it to get the Lurchers to waste their metals. No need to kill them if they all run out of vials doing your plan. Still I don't think this is the case. I am more interested in the people who are supporting Joes plan when it is so murky as to his intentions at the moment.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Thank you for contributing, Alfa. Gamma, if both a soother and a rioter target the same player, will they cancel each other out (I.E. allowing the target to decide what happens) or will the sooth overpower the riot (role-block) or vice versa (forced burn). Depending on Gamma’s answer, this is a potential defense against an enemy soother, though with every player that targets a tineye the chances of him discovering the identity of the lurcher and not one of the others is significantly reduced. It would be an especially unfortunate situation if he ended with the name of a skaa soother who then claims to be an inquisitor lurcher.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I don't think his plan is to waste Lurcher metals either. Waaaaay too much risk, for not enough reward. Also, he said that after this cycle, he didn't care what the Lurchers did, which implies his plan doesn't need for them to protect him afterwards. So I think if it was a plan to waste the Lurchers metals, it would have them more involved after this.

 

While I am still skeptical about his plan, I suppose it's better than nothing. While we do have the lynch discussion, I think we need more than that if we're going to catch the Eliminators. It's gonna be hard to come up with a plan that will actually do some good without the Eliminators blocking it by knowing what it is. You mention that his intentions are murky. But don't they have to be? I don't like being in the dark about stuff either, but what choice do we have? It's either that, or the Eliminators know the plan as well. Sure, we might lose some protections from Joe's plan that might help us later in the game, but if Joe's plan works like he wants it to, I'm guessing he thinks the benefits will outweigh the losses.

 

Now, onto my vote. I don't really see any evidence against anyone yet, but that's to be expected Day 1. I'm just gonna go with one of the newbies, since I think Sart is right. We have quite a few in this game and we need everyone to be active in discussion. Deathclutch10, do you have anything to add to the discussion? What do you think of Joe's plan?

Edited October 20, 2015 by TheMightyLopen

[A Joe in the Bush]

Nevermind.

 

I had an idle thought and reread the rules. My original plan depended on how bronze worked, and I just found out I badly misunderstood how it worked. I thought they targeted someone, and would be told which actions were used against that person. So I've been trying to get a Village seeker to target me. That way they could announce what metal was used against me. If it had been anything other than Iron, especially if it was Brass, then the name I had would probably be a Skaa, and could announce them as such.

 

But bronze doesn't work that way.

 

So, sorry to waste so much time discussing a plan that doesn't work. I'll try to come up with something else. 

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

 

Gamma, if both a soother and a rioter target the same player, will they cancel each other out (I.E. allowing the target to decide what happens) or will the sooth overpower the riot (role-block) or vice versa (forced burn).

 

Good question and interesting scenario! Flavor-wise, that'd make sense for them to cancel out, but for the purposes of these games, the Soothing would take priority.

[Wyrmhero he/him]

I am actually legitimately impressed by the amount of discussion generated after 22 hours. I don't think I've ever seen a game where it's happened to this extent.

 

And yeah, Kipper, you need to un-red me in your first post if you want to remove your vote for me. Would be a shame if I got lynched due to an accident (though more acceptable if it was an 'accident', I suppose. Not accusing you or anything, just musing).

 

Speaking of removing votes, I'm removing mine from Venture Mistborn, grudgingly. Even after a poke vote we get nothing from him. I don't like that he's still saying that he's sitting back to see where the game's going (we've had more discussion than ever so far!), but doesn't look like we can actually get any contribution beyond that from him so far.

 

I'm kind of concerned that, with so many people discussing it, no-one noticed the flaw in Joe's plan until just now, when he said it himself. I'm not sure what this says, if anything, but you'd think that with so many people looking at it (or at least, a few people looking at it intently), someone would have noticed.

 

I'm going to put a vote on Orlok, I think, because of his reasoning for voting for me. I voted for Venture Mistborn because I wanted to get something from him, not because I thought his behaviour was suspicious - I know he's not a player who posts a lot. The idea is to draw him in to saying more, or at least get people discussing with regards to the vote. It seems to have worked, I would have said, even if it did mostly get drowned out by Joe's plan.

 

And speaking of behaviours, you know this is what I do at the start of games. If anything, by your own reasoning you shouldn't be voting for me .

 

Edit: For what it's worth, I'm also voting for you because timezones.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[A Joe in the Bush]

I'm kind of concerned that, with so many people discussing it, no-one noticed the flaw in Joe's plan until just now, when he said it himself. I'm not sure what this says, if anything, but you'd think that with so many people looking at it (or at least, a few people looking at it intently), someone would have noticed.

Nobody knew that was my plan. that bit was kept secret because if the Skaa found out what my plan was, they wouldn't target me with anything, so all i would get was a lurcher. so i was the only one who could see the flaw.

 

EDIT: I spend too much time on the mlp forums. . .

Edited October 20, 2015 by The Only Joe

[Alvron he/him]

Nevermind.

 

I had an idle thought and reread the rules. My original plan depended on how bronze worked, and I just found out I badly misunderstood how it worked. I thought they targeted someone, and would be told which actions were used against that person. So I've been trying to get a Village seeker to target me. That way they could announce what metal was used against me. If it had been anything other than Iron, especially if it was Brass, then the name I had would probably be a Skaa, and could announce them as such.

 

But bronze doesn't work that way.

 

So, sorry to waste so much time discussing a plan that doesn't work. I'll try to come up with something else. 

Hmph.  I'm very disappointed.  Here I was thinking you were making a major sacrifice play Joe.  I was all set to call you out closer to the end of the cycle for being a Skaa with Atium.  I thought you were trying to get all the Lurchers to target you and hopefully others while you burnt Atium and killed everyone that did target you.  Sure you would be swiftly lynched the next day but would've taken out several abilities and really screwed team good.  A master stroke but sadly it looks like that wasn't your plan.  Or was it???

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I am actually legitimately impressed by the amount of discussion generated after 22 hours. I don't think I've ever seen a game where it's happened to this extent.

 

I'm kind of concerned that, with so many people discussing it, no-one noticed the flaw in Joe's plan until just now, when he said it himself. I'm not sure what this says, if anything, but you'd think that with so many people looking at it (or at least, a few people looking at it intently), someone would have noticed.

I'll second that. 5 pages already? That might be a record, especially for an MR.

 

See below.

 

Nobody knew that was my plan. that bit was kept secret because if the Skaa found out what my plan was, they wouldn't target me with anything, so all i would get was a lurcher. so i was the only one who could see the flaw.

Exactly. I might have had some suspicions on what he wanted to do, but I wasn't sure and just decided to throw in my lot with Joe's, but now that he's realized the flaw, we need something to go off of.

[A Joe in the Bush]

 

Hmph.  I'm very disappointed.  Here I was thinking you were making a major sacrifice play Joe.  I was all set to call you out closer to the end of the cycle for being a Skaa with Atium.  I thought you were trying to get all the Lurchers to target you and hopefully others while you burnt Atium and killed everyone that did target you.  Sure you would be swiftly lynched the next day but would've taken out several abilities and really screwed team good.  A master stroke but sadly it looks like that wasn't your plan.  Or was it??? 

 

Ah man, that's totally something I would do if i had Atium. That's how I play the vet role in ToS. Claim to be an Invest on day 2, alert, kill everyone.

 

EDIT: Added Quote.

Edited October 20, 2015 by The Only Joe

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Ah man, that's totally something I would do if i had Atium. That's how I play the vet role in ToS. Claim to be an Invest on day 2, alert, kill everyone.

 

EDIT: Added Quote.

 

I'd have applauded you and conceded the game right then and there.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I'm going to put a vote on Orlok, I think, because of his reasoning for voting for me. I voted for Venture Mistborn because I wanted to get something from him, not because I thought his behaviour was suspicious - I know he's not a player who posts a lot. The idea is to draw him in to saying more, or at least get people discussing with regards to the vote. It seems to have worked, I would have said, even if it did mostly get drowned out by Joe's plan.

And speaking of behaviours, you know this is what I do at the start of games. If anything, by your own reasoning you shouldn't be voting for me .

Edit: For what it's worth, I'm also voting for you because timezones.

Wyrm, I was voting for you primarily to 1) see when you'd react, as I know your timezone and have a pretty good idea of your online times, 2) because before Kipper withdrew his vote, I could put actual lynch pressure on you, and it's always interesting seeing how people react to that, and 3) to keep you in the discussion - both because you're a player who's insight is worth having, and because you're sufficiently dangerous that the more opportunities you have to trip up the better!

Edit: colour

Edited October 20, 2015 by Orlok

[STINK he/him]

This discussion isn't the norm for you? Wasn't this length of discussion in the last few games as well?

[Amanuensis he/him]

If I recall correctly, the first day of MR8 was 8 pages long. My memory is seldom reliable, and as I am at work right now I can't commit more than a few occasional glances, so if anyone else wants to confirm that, feel free. At some point I would like to do a detailed analysis of every player's posts so far, but I don't think it'll be worth much this cycle. Until people begin dying I likely won't be able to discover anything of use.

 

With that in mind, I have to ask. Who supports a lynch this day and who doesn't? Simply add a yay or nay in your following posts and I will begin tallying it up. I would go back to read everything I've missed, but until my shift finishes I can't dedicate that much attention to this game.

[STINK he/him]

My thoughts on a day one lynch this game would be a 'nay'. The first eliminator kill this cycle will tell us something if we get everyone to talk, while the day one lynch won't tell us that much compared to all this discussion going on, and inactive shouldn't be lynched until the second cycle at the least.

Remember, we will also hopefully see if any metal is used in the first cycle as well.

Edited October 20, 2015 by IrulelikeSTINK

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I think I'm leaning towards yea. But who, I'm not sure.

[Alfa he/him]

As I calculated before, a first-day-lynch increases our chances to get somebody, so YAY.

I didn't use coinshots in my calculation because I have no idea on their number and their behaviour is another variable, so the calculation would be almost impossible.

[RippleGylf she/her]

Ripple.  It's mostly a gut feeling from your first post but I'm going to follow it and see where it leads.

 

What about my first post makes you suspicious of me? The fact that I brought up the possibility that the skaa have a lurcher, and it's good to be wary of that? The fact that I'm not voting because I don't feel any solid suspicions at the moment? I can't defend myself unless you tell me your argument against me. Yes, my post does, in hindsight, seem a bit contradictory. I don't feel like I can really vote for anyone at the moment, but at the same time, I understand the arguments for a first cycle lynch.

[Kasimir he/him]

Welp. This is why I should not have signed up to join MR9, although admittedly, I didn’t know the week was going to get so bad. I stay off the Shard for a day or two to get my piracy paper done, and y’all are tearin’ up the thread like it’s the Second Coming of the Urbain Inquisition. What gives, folks?

Anyway, I’m coming off having pulled an all-nighter and I have a second paper due on Thurs, (everpresent threat of thesis…) so: A. a day in the life of a final year student, B. I’m rusting exhausted, and am prone to rambling but will try to make at least one constructive comment.

1. I have made my position on Day One lynches clear several times over previous games, to the point I’ve given up on doing so for reasons. The core of my position is that I distinguish between a lynch discussion and the lynch: the former is obligatory, while the latter is not strictly necessary (although if, for instance, the game begins with a night cycle and a kill, then that’s a different story.) Furthermore, I think that discussion needs the threat of a lynch in order to be fruitful, but this condition is insufficient and only weakly necessary. [tldr; if we have already pre-determined that we won’t lynch anyone, then there are no stakes. There isn’t really any pressure to discussion. But just because we are slapping votes on people doesn’t mean we can’t withdraw them or finagle things so we get a tie: having voted does not necessitate a commitment to a lynch.]

2. The Joe-Clanky-lots-of-other-people debate has ended, because Joe went and pulled a Macen [=did not read rules properly] (j/k) Consequently, I’m not really keen on going over the whole ‘will this or will this not work’ issue because the point is now a moot one. However, I’m a little curious as to why Maili is so quick to trust Joe, because I sure as blazes wouldn’t trust Wyrm this much to stick my neck out for him, in particular on Day One, but perhaps you’ve played enough games together that you feel you have a good read on him?

Anyway, Joe, since the plan has failed thanks to Rule of Gamma, I’d like to know how, exactly, based on your initial interpretation of the rules, you were planning on soliciting a Seeker to confirm with you about what sort of action you were targeted with. There’s no PMs in this game and you were not forthcoming with your plan. How were our Seekers supposed to read your mind and go with what you had thought about?

For what it’s worth, have a Fact of the Day, courtesy of my paper on pirates:

The Balangingi raiders used to drink blood “collected from the severed arms and opened veins of captives”, when they were really desperate and drinking seawater and their own pee just didn’t work anymore. So, this is kind of passé because Bear Grylls does that too, right? Well. In extremis, when they run out of food, they have also been known to eat their own poo.

Yeah. Exactly what I said. They go through it (their poo) in search of “hard, re-edible grain called layagan” and then they wash that and eat it again, kind of like rabbits. Keep in mind that these maritime raiders could have raiding expeditions of up to three years, so that was a long time, and food/water deprivation was a pretty possible hazard. #stuffIlearninuni

 

Edited for spelling. They're Balangingi, not Balangangi! Oh Lord, prof, I'm so sorry...

Edited October 20, 2015 by Kasimir

[Araris Valerian he/him]

So I saw Lopen's post, and I am glad that we have had so much contribution so far to the thread. I'm not sure who I will put my vote on now for lack of time, but later tonight I will come back and see what is up.