The nature of Adonalsium (spoilers for Mistborn and Stormlight)

[Oudeis he/him]

If this is so, the Shards should have gained consciousness as a result of being held by humans for thousands of years.....

 

The point Aether made, plus, maybe they do... like Sylphrena says, if her bond with Kaladin were ever severed, she'd go back to being mindless. Maybe Harmony is less a matter of, Sazed hopped behind the wheel of a ferrari and turned on the ignition, and more a matter of, two beings merged into one. Maybe the intelligence Harmony expresses isn't Sazed's personal one, so much as a mix of his mind with the power/Intent of the Shards. We've all assumed it's just the power of the Shard flowing into a human, but couldn't it be the mind of the human flowing into the power of the Shard? If the human body/mind dies, however, the link is severed, and the Shard goes back to being a mindless force, just like Syl would go back to being a brainless spren.

 

A thought occurs to me... undirected Ruin went around destroying. Undirected Preservation was still able to protect. Hypothetically, what would happen to Endowment if its holder died? Would it just go around giving things?

[Shardlet he/him]

I have also taken note of the curios fact that most of the splinters seem to have to be tied to a separate conscience to develop one on their own. Syl mentions having a mind as fleeting as a normal Windspren before she bonded Kaladin and slowly regained her sentience and personality. Seons also bonds humans, and the Divine Breaths seem to fuse with the dying conscience of their host to let them come back to life. It seems plausible that splinters do not gain sentience on their own, but can when linked to a someone else.

 

That would suggest, in view of the quote from Brandon at Seattle this year, that spren are not splinters until they bond with someone.  This seems unlikely to me.

[Aether he/him]

That would suggest, in view of the quote from Brandon at Seattle this year, that spren are not splinters until they bond with someone.  This seems unlikely to me.

They're still splinters, but I am suggesting that they cannot necessarily develop sentience without bonding with someone/something. I see no conflict between this claim and the WoB.

[Oudeis he/him]

Among other things, isn't that quote what he claims people in-world term Splinters? I don't think it's said anywhere that it's what Splinters objectively are.

[Moogle]

They're still splinters, but I am suggesting that they cannot necessarily develop sentience without bonding with someone/something. I see no conflict between this claim and the WoB.

 

Except that it seems that the spren that Shallan are bonding with might have been sentient before the bond happened. Syl had a slow period where she learned to talk and gained a personality (or perhaps reclaimed her old one), but Shallan's cryptics never had a similar period. We do have WoB saying that 'cryptics' are what those spren call themselves, something that they could hardly do if they all had to be bonded. (I say this because it seems that the Surgebinders returning coincides with Gavilar doing something.)

 

Also keep in mind that Shallan hears multiple cryptics, but according to the Nahel bond theory, she'd only have bonded with one. This further supports the idea that cryptics are sentient without being bonded.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Moogle

[Oudeis he/him]

Anyone who has read the Steelhunt stuff, or the WoR readings, might recognize more support for this theory...

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

How so? I don't remember anything like that.

[Oudeis he/him]

How so? I don't remember anything like that.

 

Spoilers for all those things behind the cut.

 

Wyndle speaks of how, in the Cognitive Realm, he used to craft beautiful crystal gardens for honorspren and cryptics to admire. These sound like the actions of a sentient being to me, and in context he's expressly talking about "this is what my life was like before I bonded with you." Thus, some spren do have sentience without the bond, though there are those who suggest that perhaps being in the cognitive realm has something to do with that.

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about the OP. And I definitely think you're right there, especially since

WoR stuff below

Wyndle also talks about the Ring, which certainly sounds like an organization or government made of Spren, implying they not only have sentience, but art, culture, and a full fledged society of unbonded spren in the Spiritual Realm.

[Aether he/him]

Lift Interlude spoilers:

I had completely forgotten about the Cryptics (and the Ring). Seems like there are some holes in my hypothesis.

 

EDIT: Added spoiler-tags to part of my post.

 

EDIT 2: Changed my mind and put the whole thing in spoiler-tags.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Aether

[Oudeis he/him]

Hey Aether, this forum isn't spoiler-y for stuff that hasn't been released in a book yet. Can you throw your post behind a Spoiler tag?

 

I know, I'm the first one who brought it up, I shouldn't have and I'm sorry. I guess I should have told people to check out the spoiler forums and I'd post my thoughts there.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Darnam

[KevThinker he/him]

I was actually wondering about this today. Everything I've ever read stated that Adonalsium was the power of creation, but did that mean it was like God's hammer that he left lying around?

[Aether he/him]

I was actually wondering about this today. Everything I've ever read stated that Adonalsium was the power of creation, but did that mean it was like God's hammer that he left lying around?

I am not quite sure what you're asking, but a common theory is that the Shards are more of "access keys" rather than the power of Creation itself, and that the nature of the Shards define how the power is accessed and influences its effects. A fully restored Adonalsium would, in my opinion, let you access the power of Creation indiscriminately.

[Windrunner he/him]

That theory has been debunked. Brandon's stated that the power of creation is just the power that each Shard has, not some infinite well of power that the Shards allow access to.

[Aether he/him]

That theory has been debunked. Brandon's stated that the power of creation is just the power that each Shard has, not some infinite well of power that the Shards allow access to.

Ah! I was not aware of this. But could you give us the WoB? I want it for my bookmark-collection.

[Satsuoni he/him]

This one, probably:

 

Zas

So Power of Creation. Is the Power of Creation this thing of power that powers Allomancy and powers the Aons, or is the Power of Creation just what each shard has?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say [the power] each shard has. Is more the definition.

[Isomere]

@The OP: Fantastic theory, seems possible and well thought out. God-element could be a reasonable translation, but I want to know when it was created. I have assumed that Adonalsium has always been around. Now eternity is a long time... a mind bogglingly long time. Well, not even really a time at all, more a state outside of time. Your suggestion that dragons created it seems equally valid and lets us shield our fragile minds from Always. That said, perhaps they built on a foundation that already existed. See, I think Adonalsium represents a Spiritual Ideal of Perfection. The Ideal can't be destroyed, but perhaps it could be bound to a physical substance that allows people to manipulate it. This element would have tremendous power, and if shattered could fragment the underlying Ideal as well. The Intents then represent Aspects of Perfection separated from their counterbalances, and Shards are literally physical fragments of the element they bound to Perfection.

[Dysphoric Kitten she/her]

I need to finish reading the rest of the thread, but so far I have two things to say.

What I want to know is why Splinters of a Shard seems to be able to develop sentience while the Shards themselves do not.

(is there any evidence splinters can while shards cannot?)

Maybe a splinter, being much simpler in sensory input, mental processing power, spiritual footprint, physical impact, etcetra, needs only so much of a cognitive aspect, and therefore it can develop by itself.

The shard, however, is immensely more complex in all of the above aspects. Follows, the shard would need a better cognition, which might need to be built around an existing cognitive construct (either of a specific kind (many reasons why) or not) to give it a jumpstart.

Think of trying to make a base drum and it's pedal (somewhat complex, can be done poorly) versus trying to make a piano (impossible without massive studying).

Now that I think of it, the simpler splinters may be able to start forming, then after cognitive enough, direct the rest of the process. Shards would require something much more aware and capable to assemble.

Note: I can also build a theory exactly opposed to this one and have it make sense.

I have noticed some curious places where a story of Sanderson's is strangely parallel to Jewish history. I have also noticed (long ago) that some names and words RJ wrote in Wheel of Time are oddly similar to words in Hebrew.

I can say (and be dismissed rightfully) that Adonalsium has this attribute (like Shai'tan (which would be spelled like Satan)). If it does, the meaning seems to be something with Lord and Finishing - it has alternate meanings.

[Oudeis he/him]

 I have also noticed (long ago) that some names and words RJ wrote in Wheel of Time are oddly similar to words in Hebrew.

 

 

Meh, RJ never did anything but poach. Every name, concept, and idea he came up with was stolen from somewhere else. Ogiers, Paendragon, even the yin-yang. The guy couldn't even steal properly; in the actual yin-yang, the white half represents male energy and the dark half represents female energy. I'm not surprised that some of his ideas came from Jewish history; every idea in that series was taken from somewhere.

[Dysphoric Kitten she/her]

Meh, RJ never did anything but poach. Every name, concept, and idea he came up with was stolen from somewhere else. Ogiers, Paendragon, even the yin-yang. The guy couldn't even steal properly; in the actual yin-yang, the white half represents male energy and the dark half represents female energy. I'm not surprised that some of his ideas came from Jewish history; every idea in that series was taken from somewhere.

RJ did not take anything I know of from Jewish history. Just had names similar to Hebrew words. It could have been accidental (after all, Shai'tan could be a reference to Satan, it is similar enough), and there are other explanations.

The parts I reckon are stolen from Jewish history (inspired by, more likely) are actually in Elantris and Mistborn. Well, the mistborn one is fairly obscure, and therefore unlikely, and the Elantris one is so commonly and easily used as something to compare to that it should be ignored. Still, I am reminded of them.

[KevThinker he/him]

I am not quite sure what you're asking, but a common theory is that the Shards are more of "access keys" rather than the power of Creation itself, and that the nature of the Shards define how the power is accessed and influences its effects. A fully restored Adonalsium would, in my opinion, let you access the power of Creation indiscriminately.

What I was pondering about was if there is a deity in the Cosmere who utilized Adonalsium prior to it shattering. Adonalsium has always been billed as the power of creation, okay so who used that power to create the cosmere in the first place? 

[Aether he/him]

What I was pondering about was if there is a deity in the Cosmere who utilized Adonalsium prior to it shattering. Adonalsium has always been billed as the power of creation, okay so who used that power to create the cosmere in the first place? 

We have, at this point, no idea, and not really enough information even to make much guess-work. We presume that Adonalsium had a holder, as the Shards have later on, but honestly, we do not even know that for certain.

[Isomere]

Keep in mind, Brandon may have written a Cosmere that was never initially created. Many believe there was no true initial creation event and that eternity stretches equally in all temporal directions. Bottom line is we don't know the answer to Origen questions for the Cosmere or for our own universe.

[Elementalist he/him]

Let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.

The suffix "ium" is not only used to show that something is a material. It is also used as the required suffix of the name of an element (like, on the periodic table.)

While I don't truly believe that the element The Letter's author was talking about was directly related to adonalsium (any more than any other magical object in the cosmere) I figured I should throw this connection out there as food for thought.

EDIT:

Some housekeeping notes.  -ium does not refer to metals specifically but rather is a common suffix for most elements.  There are several elements (i.e., selenium, germanium, tellurium, and polonium) which are either non-metals or metalloids.  Most of the nonmetals were named well before the -ium convention was established and therefore were not named using this convention.  Most elements which do not use -ium were named before -ium was conventionally used.  Furthermore, -ium has far broader use than just elements (e.g., gymnasium, symposium, etc.).

Sorry to repeat your post, Shardlet. I didn't read the thread all the way through. Edited January 5, 2014 by Power

[Aether he/him]

The suffix "ium" is not only used to show that something is a material. It is also used as the required suffix of the name of an element (like, on the periodic table.)

While I don't truly believe that the element The Letter's author was talking about was directly related to adonalsium (any more than any other magical object in the cosmere) I figured I should throw this connection out there as food for thought.

It is widely assumed that Hoid is referring to his bead of Lerasium. So "the element" is related to Adonalsium, though rather indirectly (assuming we are correct).