When Tanavast Died

[DSC01 he/him]

It occurs to me that Honor must have been splintered right around the time that the Oathpact was made. Afterward, to be sure, but it was probably the last, desperate act of a Shardholder who saw his end coming.

 

You see, spren could not have existed before Honor was dead and splintered. I recently saw a WoB where he said something along the lines of, "There were seons on Sel before the Reod, but there were none before Rayse visited." Such sentient Splinters (which include seons, skaze, and spren) come from dead gods. What we know of the Desolations suggests that the spren were not a late arrival in the cycle of Desolations. 

 

Of course, Honor's death didn't have to be around the time of the first Desolation. Maybe it happened sometime in the middle. But if not right at the beginning, what was the Oathpact even for? It's just fighting a horrific war, then going to hell, then fighting a horrific war, then going to hell again--forever (but, hey, you get cool swords!). Just about anyone would walk away from that horror pretty quickly after the guy who made the deal died. Unless carrying on after his death was the deal.

 

Sidenote: I saw a post about how Endowment willingly splinters her power to give to the Returned, who become Splinterholders or something. These Splinters are unique, as they do not have sentience, while the byproducts of fatal splintering do. The Returned's Splinters aren't unique, though. The Honorblades are the same thing, in a different form. 

[Khyrindor he/him]

I saw a WoB that said there were spren on Roshar before Honour even showed up. At least I think, I'll try to find it. Anyway, Shards can Invest without splintering, maybe that's what the old spren were, but then when the KR killed them and turned them into the Shardblades, it broke Honour. Or, maybe the Oathpact was made by Tanavast's Shadow rather than the original Tanavast, and he was Splintered all along. The recent betrayal however, made him hesitant to let his spren return to the Physical Realm.

[natc]

Odium is alive yet voidspren exist.

Honor can definitely create spren while alive, as Cultivation has probably been doing this whole time, Odium is clearly doing, and Adonalsium likely did.

Listeners seem to predate humans as well, and their species basically requires spren to function by itself, as the greatshells seem to be as well. Probably skyeels as well.

[DSC01 he/him]

Hmm... This is all true. I wonder what on earth is going on there. What if splintering is just a part of Odium's nature, even to the extent that it affects his own Shard? I dunno. That sounds more like something Ruin would do, and he didn't, so... Actually, didn't Brandon say that Cultivation might have something in common with Ruin? Maybe she's the one causing the splintering, not to destroy but to cultivate new forms of life.

Well, in any case, I still think Tanavast probably died really early on, even if my spren idea is way off. It just makes the most sense to me as the antecedent to the Oathpact.

[Weltall]

We know Tanavast was around for some time after the Oathpact because one of his visions tells Dalinar that he didn't teach the Spren how to bond humans and didn't anticipate it. That means the Heralds had to have been around for long enough that the Spren saw how their powers worked and tried to replicate it themselves and Tanavast had to be around long enough to see it so he could 'record' that part of his vision.

 

Actually, if we take that as our basis he may not have died until after the Day of Recreance since he appears to be talking about it in the vision where Dalinar saw it happen. It's possible this is one of the prescient visions and Tanavast was guessing at its import (like the final vision in WoK showing what might happen to the world if Odium wins) but he seemed to be specific enough in his wording that it's something he actually saw. In any case, he was definitely around long enough to see a Desolation or two at least.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Weltall

[Elbereth she/her]

[56:14] Q: If sprens are pieces of the god power, and investiture is the power of the god, then can Nightblood consume spren?

A: He could theoret- Yeah, he could totally consume spren. There's not even any “theoretically” to that.

Q: Are Cognitive elements like spren and seons only present on physical planes or worlds where Shards have been Shattered?

A: No, but it does require … alternately the shard would have to give up pieces of their power for that. But it doesn't have to be "they were Shattered by someone." Seons existed on, sorry, spren existed on Roshar before the Shattering. Not as many.

Q: Was Honor Shattered before or after the Recreance?

A: I believe after. I'm pretty sure. I mean, he has memories of the Recreance.

(source) Emphasis mine.

This was from a recent signing. Sorry for wrecking your theories.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Limelleth

[DSC01 he/him]

Oh, well. It seemed like such a good idea. Though that does now make me really wonder what the Oathpact was about.

[Yata he/him]

 

Sidenote: I saw a post about how Endowment willingly splinters her power to give to the Returned, who become Splinterholders or something. These Splinters are unique, as they do not have sentience, while the byproducts of fatal splintering do. The Returned's Splinters aren't unique, though. The Honorblades are the same thing, in a different form. 

The Splinters are sentience, always. But probably the Divine Breath doesn't develop a great degree of Sentience because it had something who control its (The Returned himself).

We know that the "power without guide in time develops sentience" but the Divine Breath just after its creation (Endowment's Splintering) find a guide.

The Divine Breath must have a bit of Sentience and an own Intent but it's probably something more basic, like a primitive Instinct to guide the Returned.