Firehead13 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Okay, I keep seeing references to Renarin's sickness or weakness, usually when theories are being bandied about regarding the nightwatcher. Something I feel like should be pondered: Renarin was never sick that we know of. His supposed weakness and seizures and uncertainty can all come down to a screaming voice in his mind every time he touched a shardblade and conversations he had with something no one else can see. If he's weaker than other nobles, it's because he never trained with weapons the way most did and probably kept his nose in a book and his shoulder's hunched. In a society of warriors and a family of warrior princes, he would be extremely ashamed of his "sickness" and experience bouts of self-loathing, leading to actual medical problems. This was probably something everyone already knew, but I kept seeing posts on how Dalinar's boon was for Renarin's health and it bothered me, because his health was never in question to begin with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Except that when Renarin describes his symptoms to Kaladin, not only does he describe a condition that Kaladin can recognize as epilepsy via questioning but, well, Renarin straight up says that it's been happening to him since he was a child. His being a proto-Radiant can account for some of what we see in Words of Radiance but it doesn't explain his illness since he's had it for far longer than he's had a shardblade. Edited October 21, 2015 by Weltall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehead13 Posted October 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 If I'm remembering the scene correctly, Renarin tells Kaladin he has epilepsy (something other doctors told him in the first place) but when going through the questions, Kaladin can't identify what type it is and comes away from the conversation with more of a "I guess that's what it is" than any kind of certainty. Regarding the age thing, we know that shallan had pattern from a very early age, so no reason to think that Renarin wouldn't have had his partner from a young age as well. Additionally, he's from a high family in a warrior society, so it's likely that as a young child he was offered the chance to hold a blade and it screamed at him. If nobody made the connection between the blade and his seizures, then he might have touched it again or been handed one to start his training and fallen sick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemci she/her Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Kaladin wasn't particularly confused about Renarin's epilepsy. He figures out fairly quickly that Renarin has myoclonic epilepsy, asks Renarin if he's been given bitterleaf to chew, and figures that it's probably quite normal as seizures go that Renarin typically grows weak on only one side of his body. He asks Renarin if he's had any consistent relaxation of muscles in one half of his body (sign of stroke). (I'm not a medical expert) Plus, the blade screaming in your head wouldn't necessarily cause uncontrollable twitching or jerking arms. And Renarin does admit that the seizures are confined to twitching, arm-jerking or growing really weak. We've seen Renarin handle a blade, and in those cases, he appeared fine, except for the sigh of relief he gives off when he dismisses the blade. Edited October 21, 2015 by Cemci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor he/him Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Renarin also has a blood disorder, which is why he doesn't train with weapons in a highly militaristic society, and he has a form of Autism. The Blade screaming in his head is just another thing that happens to him on top of everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think you are mixing me many elements. Renarin does have seizures. He has had seizures in both WoK and WoR. If we look on Google for additional information, he appears to be suffering from partial seizures, which means he does not lose consciousness and it only impairs one member: in his case, his arm. It appears to be rather common on autistic children to develop some form of seizure, still according to Google. The percentage of children suffering from seizures is considerably higher among autistic children as it is among non-autistic ones. It thus seems likely both his conditions are linked as if I was able to find as much information in a simple Internet search, surely Brandon did the same when he drafted Renarin. We do not know when exactly the seizures started, but he tells Kaladin he has had them since childhood. Now, we can of course discuss as to which age Renarin was referring to exactly, but since he was never allowed to take on sword training we can guess they started before he reached 10-11 years of age. As far as we know, all spren activity started 6 years ago. Kaladin started bonding Syl 6 years ago. Shallan started bonding Pattern 6 years ago. Jasnah started bonding Ivory 6 years ago. Galivar was presumably bonding the Stormfather 6 years ago. This does not mean it is impossible to have bonded a spren prior to then, but it struck me as highly unlikely. Besides, Brandon did state Shallan was on the extreme lower age to start a Nahel bond: she was 11 border-lining on 12. Renarin would have needed to be much younger than that to have started the process prior to having his seizures. The Nahel bond thus does not seem linked at all to his seizures. Combined with the fact medicine calls for them to be highly linked to autism, his seizures cannot be anything else than a mere sickness he truly had since childhood. As for the screaming Blade part, I believe you are making a mistake. Renarin never heard any Blade scream at him prior to chapter 25. In this chapter, he tries to defend the bridgemen by summoning his Blade, but he instantaneously freezes and loses it. He does not have such a reaction before... he had a mere discomfort. He grimaced, but he did not drop it or yell or do anything more striking. It thus seems unlikely he could hear the screams prior to chapter 25. II also do not believe one minute child Renarin would have heard Blade screaming and not have any reaction sort of excessive. Children are blunt, children are not good at hiding their thoughts and are easily upset. It does not hold on the road. As for Dalinar's boon, I never thought one second it ever had anything to do with Renarin for the simple reason his sickness it not life threatening and he still has it... so it can't be that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort he/him Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 The screaming Blade is something to do with the bond. As one of our characters progresses and becomes closer to being Radiant, they are more sensitive to the Spren that make up the Blades. Every time one of the 'deadSpren' Blades is summoned, the wielder is basically ripping the Spren into the physical realm from the cognitive. You'll note at varying points in WoR that this happens to Kaladin, Renarin, possibly Eshonai, and to a lesser extent, Dalinar, although he is able to get away with feeling merely 'discomforted', probably due to the amount of screaming he heard (and caused) as a younger Blackthorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 A few thoughts. First my take on the "blood disorder" was that it was a way of referring to epilepsy. Remember that while surgeon's knowledge of anatomy and drugs on Roshar seems to be pretty advanced, they also don't have advanced testing equipment. Understanding epilepsy beyond a basic level requires our technology. Next up I don't believe Renarin began bonding a spren until fairly recently just like the others. However I do believe he has heard the screams for a while. He's always been uncomfortable having his blade, and unless there is a WoB I don't think it was the reason he froze up when on a plateau run. I think that was a seizure but I also do think he heard the blade. So the question is why did he react better to hearing the blade scream than many others? We have a few peoples reactions. Relis who freaks out and runs out on the duel. Kaladin who gasps and falls backward. Renarin who is deeply troubled by it and has a hard time wielding it but still functions. So why was Renarin less effected? His autism is a likely candidate here. Autism very often has a sensory processing component to it. Some sensations are amplified and some are decreased. Renarin either had less sensitivity to the scream, or was better able to deal with it due to having had to have learned coping skills for similar things just to get thru the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer he/him Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yeah, it's confirmed by WOB that Renarin is autistic. And epilepsy is common among autistic individuals. Before the autism was confirmed, I had a theory similar to yours, although that was before WoR so it didn't involve screaming Blades and such. But those theories are pretty much out the window now with the confirmation of autism. I have 2 autistic children myself, and thankfully neither of them have had seizures as far as I can tell. But I definitely see the similarities with them and Renarin. They were both diagnosed early this year, so that was after I read WoK/WoR the first times, but I've reread them since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong he/him Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 He isn't less affected by any means. I'm pretty sure we have WoB that he simply thought that he was crazy and was trying to ignore the screaming if his shard blade because he thought it was all in his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort he/him Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Relis who freaks out and runs out on the duel. I don't have confirmation of this, but I believe Relis ran out on the duel because Shallan/Pattern was messing with his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin al'Thor Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't have confirmation of this, but I believe Relis ran out on the duel because Shallan/Pattern was messing with his head. Relis ran out on the duel because he heard the dead spren screaming in his head talking about its death or accusing him of killing it. the line in the book goes something like "I did not kill you!!" then he runs out of the arena. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't have confirmation of this, but I believe Relis ran out on the duel because Shallan/Pattern was messing with his head. Pattern was messing with I believe Abrodadar(might have spelled that wrong) who was confronting Renarin. Relis and Elit were in the main melee. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer he/him Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yeah, Relis ran out screaming as soon as he touched a Blade that was also being touched by one of the proto-Radiants, if I recall. Right? I think that's how it went anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort he/him Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I can see I'll have to go back and reread that chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardjet Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 If memory serves, it was when Relis attacked Kaladin, and Kaladin did that Action-Movie moment of sliding on his knees and catching the blade between his palms as it descended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer he/him Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think Kaladin caught the Blade with Szeth, not Relis. Or am I wrong? Oh wait, that was Dalinar. I found a WoB where Brandon confirmed that Relis heard the spren screaming because he and Kal were touching the Blade at the same time. I can't link to it because I can't copy and paste on my work computer, but it's on Theoryland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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