Long Game 15: ...The Shards Themselves...

[Alvron he/him]

....All of a sudden, our PM makes so much more sense. However, have you forgotten already what I said about choosing my own death? I don't suppose you'd tell me who the kandra is, eh? I swear I have no ulterior motives. 

I didn't forget about what you said.  Why do you think I asked Adavantos to ask his Mistborn to kill you off.

[Elithanathile he/him]

Okay, never mind then, let's all lynch her, just in case she's a voidbringer. which are the parshendi. Which are slaves. I'm not sure the comparison goes that far, but lynch all the voidbringers!

 

Oh yeah. Almost forgot. Wilson.

[Kipper]

Everything in me right now is screaming "JESTER, DO NOT LYNCH!!!"

[RippleGylf she/her]

I told you so. Wilson.

Also, aren't meeples those things from Carcasonne?

[Amanuensis he/him]

Knowing that Wilson is evil this could mean a few things:

1. 
   

   Traitor!phattmer placed his vote on Shallan early on in the turn knowing that at least one of his teammates would later instigate a bandwagon on her. I think this is very unlikely given the fact that Wilson's vote against Shallan was reactionary. Phattmer would have had to violate the fair game rules by using his real life relationship with Shallan to get her to post, which I am not willing to assume. Chances are he is good but just in case I think he warrants a scan.

   
   
   
2. 
   

   Of the two players who were up for the lynch before Shallan's post (Adavantos and Bridge Boy) it is possible that one of them is a Traitor. Considering that momentum was building up against Bridge Boy it is possible that Wilson cast her vote on Shallan to save his life (also might be why she chose her as Shallan already had a vote against her and did something that warranted suspicion). For this reason I think it's essential that he and I get scanned ASAP.

   
   
   
3. 
   

   Just because we now know that Wilson was a traitor, that does not mean any of the other players that were aware of Mail's role are not evil too, however personally I think it is very likely the rest of us are good. Given her pursuing STINK immediately afterwards I would consider him soft cleared. Also given the fact that Kipper came to the same conclusions as me about her being evil around the same time, I also consider him soft cleared.

   
   
   
4. 
   

   When asked the question "If you could have the Mistborn kill one player, who would it be" in a PM Wilson replied Bort. It is possible that she was trying to throw a teammate under a bus to make her look better, but I am more inclined to believe that a fellow traitor would not risk implicating themselves by being the fourth vote on a bandwagon that was instigated by one of their teammates. For this reason I think he is soft cleared as well.

   
   
   

 

EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION AND

 

 

Also, for you lurkers out there, if you think that because you've posted once or twice you're safe from the Mistborn, you are wrong. In killing polking (a loyal Forger) I think my point has been proven that targeting inactive players is a terrible idea, especially since they can come back later on and make a positive impact on the game. With that being said, I am going to advise the Mistborn that he begin attacking players who are still present on the forums but are not contributing (at all or significantly) to the game, as it is more likely that the traitors are hiding among them rather than those who simply can't make it online at all. So if you are loyal and have been guilty of lurking so far this game, I advise that you please begin voicing your opinions and ideas more or may end up dying to friendly fire. Thank you.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Adavantos

[Kipper]

... I don't have to write up the compiled reasons I had created for her alignment.

Make sure you tell me when you get the chance. I have to write Wilson's profile now, and I don't want to miss anything.

I will respond to Ada's post later, after I make dinner.

[Elkanah he/him]

Reading through the thread I was going to agree with Stink. It would have been more efficient to have a directed mistborn kill at night and use people's responses in the thread to find another traitor. However, if Wilson even has a chance of being a voidbringer, it's better just to kill her now to make sure she dies and then look for others because even if she isn't a voidbringer, we'll be killing a traitor.

 

I'd also like to ask a kandra to check Adavantos. He has a lot of information. If he's on our side it would be okay, but if he's a traitor we need to know sooner rather than later.

 

Edit: ninja'd by adavantos' edit and Kipper

Edited November 12, 2015 by Elkanah

[STINK he/him]

Wilson's profile?

[Amanuensis he/him]

Another possibility I left out that I think should be considered. Alvron may also be a traitor and may be lying about being in contact with a Kandra; it is possible that the traitors assumed I would have the Kandra who claimed to me scan Wilson and out her anyway, so they decided to have one of their other members approach me to reveal her alignment so that I might trust them. When I asked Alvron the reasoning for why the Kandra would reveal to him and the results of the scan he said it's because the Kandra believed that the GM would not put him and Wilson on team evil together. Personally I think that is poor reasoning given the fact that alignments are supposed to be random and that Wyrm could have found a way to balance the game with them on a team together. Given he was one of the few players who volunteered for me to pass my information onto him in case I died, I am especially wary of this being true as I personally find that a suspicious thing to ask, especially as I yet had no reason to trust him.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I actually do suspect Phatt of being evil.

Phatt and Shallan share a PC - they are siblings. Placing a vote on Shallan can be passed off as being a joke, but allows the eliminators to orchestrate a bandwagon that no one will look at twice, to allow one of their members to actually contribute.

Kipper, I'll send over the list as soon as it's done.

Can I also just raise that I strongly disagree with your methods this game, Adavantos. Nothing personal at all, but controlling the information, and threatening players with mistborn seems to be to take the fun out of the game for everyone. We can't expect people to contribute as much as the most active players - I myself haven't been as active as I aim to be, but having a mayoresque game with a controlling authority isn't going to motivate the semi-inactives to get involved again.

[Paranoid King he/him]

Well, it seems that Wilson is guilty. I might as well hop on the bandwagon.

[phattemer]

Orlok, of course it does. However, I don't really see how our sharing a computer some of the time changes anything. Literally anyone could have placed a poke vote and had a bandwagon develop.

Oh, and to everyone in my PMs who I told I thought Wilson was evil: told you.

Wilson

And I'd like to mention that I think Kipper is pretty cleared bc going after Wilson for a while. (Or course, that also, completely conincidentally, clears me. I did not even notice that, I swear.)

And just because we know who we are lynching doesn't mean DISCUSSION=0.

Who should the Mistborn kill?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Yeah, I really should just follow you blindly at this point Phatt.   Wilson

 

Since you were right about Wilson, maybe you'd be right about others. Who do you think the Mistborn should kill?

[Alvron he/him]

Another possibility I left out that I think should be considered. Alvron may also be a traitor and may be lying about being in contact with a Kandra; it is possible that the traitors assumed I would have the Kandra who claimed to me scan Wilson and out her anyway, so they decided to have one of their other members approach me to reveal her alignment so that I might trust them. When I asked Alvron the reasoning for why the Kandra would reveal to him and the results of the scan he said it's because the Kandra believed that the GM would not put him and Wilson on team evil together. Personally I think that is poor reasoning given the fact that alignments are supposed to be random and that Wyrm could have found a way to balance the game with them on a team together. Given he was one of the few players who volunteered for me to pass my information onto him in case I died, I am especially wary of this being true as I personally find that a suspicious thing to ask, especially as I yet had no reason to trust him.

It may be poor reasoning but it is the reasoning I was given so it is the reasoning I gave you.

[Arrae]

Rae was having problems with sleeping now. The names of the dead -- and the photos taken at the place of murder -- ran through her mind over and over and over again, to the point where resting made her feel worse than working.

 

So she buried herself in odd jobs: carting Soulstone for Forgers, cleaning the ship, cooking meals, obsessively watching the messages on her PDA. Now that the crew was short one Awakener, many things had to be cleaned out manually. John, the replacement janitor, could only do so much at once, so Rae helped and tried to avoid making a mess out of her job.

 

Today, Rae was unclogging ventilation systems. Her whole body was covered in dust the color of pre-harmony ash, and she was pretty sure some of it had gone up her nose. She turned on the vacuum cleaner and swept it over the air ducts. It was probably more efficient to use a wet paper towel, but at least this way she could drown out her thoughts.

 

4 dead. Miral, Inor, Sondor, and Neil. The worst part of it was that a trained officer had killed Neil for "walking suspiciously"-- and the captain hadn't punished them!

 

Rae had expected this trip to be dangerous. After all, mining accidents, high-pressure engines, oxygen tanks running out, and running into unfriendlies were all normal hazards of space. But getting killed by your own crewmate wasn't supposed to be a hazard. Getting killed by your own police was shouldn't happen at all.

 

Rae dropped the vacuum cleaner and ran to the gym. Let John deal with cleaning. Rae needed to clear her head.

 

 

Of course, I vote for Wilson. However, I think that by revealing herself, Wilson is distracting us from talking about other things. So far, no one has analyzed Kasimir's death, or anything else, in detail. I feel like there has to be an ulterior motive behind Wilson revealing herself.

 

I think Kas was killed for contributing too much and being an experienced player. I'm going to miss his posts and RPs.

 

Adavantos, I feel like pointing a Mistborn at people and telling them to talk will only encourage the traitors to contribute more. If people are lurking and not posting, it might mean that they are clueless and have nothing to add but a question mark. (Then again, you're more experienced than me, so maybe it works.) 

[Kipper]

IrulelikeSTINK, on 12 Nov 2015 - 5:35 PM, said:

Wilson's profile?

I've picked up the habit of writing psycho-babble profiles on players, to make them easier to pick out. They were actually useful in helping me pick out some red flags from Wilson. Anyway, now that I know she's an Eliminator, I can plug in some more data for hers. Speaking of which, Orlok, you're really throwing me off this game, and it's annoying. I have a whole Evil!Orlok section of my notes, and you're just defying every convention.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I think Kas was killed for contributing too much and being an experienced player. I'm going to miss his posts and RPs.

 

I second that emotion. Sonder the Doormat will be missed! 

 

He obviously wasn't killed for his role, and he made it quite clear he wasn't(and didn't want to be  ) a hub of information, so I'm taking it as them wanting to take him out because he is very vocal. 

[Arrae]

 

 

I've picked up the habit of writing psycho-babble profiles on players, to make them easier to pick out. They were actually useful in helping me pick out some red flags from Wilson. Anyway, now that I know she's an Eliminator, I can plug in some more data for hers. Speaking of which, Orlok, you're really throwing me off this game, and it's annoying. I have a whole Evil!Orlok section of my notes, and you're just defying every convention. 

You have profiles on players? Can I see mine?

What red flags did you pick up with Wilson?

[queensteph she/her]

Wilson.   I didn't really have very big suspicions for Wilson but I didn't really talk to her much in PMs so I was just going off of what she said in the thread. But now that we know she's an eliminator I'll be putting in my vote. (Can I get a ribbon for participation?  ) Also, Am I the only one that sang Wilson's post out loud? Mulan is the best. 

[Kipper]

You have profiles on players? Can I see mine?

What red flags did you pick up with Wilson?

You are new, so I don't have one for you. I need at least one game (finished) to start. Preferably two, with different alignments. For now, my profiles are private. They aren't very good, and are only really understandable to me.

Like I said, it's psycho-babble, and most of it (if not all) is only understandable to me, so I doubt that these red flags would make a lot of sense unless they were compared in-depth to previous actions. That's one of the drawbacks of this communication format: One can think through a thousand things in one's brain much faster than one can write it all out.

[queensteph she/her]

On Day 2 I said

 

"My thoughts on Possibilities as to if the Suregebinder is an Eliminator or Loyal:

 

Eliminators motives: Said "Wilson did it" to shift more suspicion on her so that we would try to lynch her, which could mean they want her dead since she's a good player, but maybe they can't kill her so that could mean that she was a Voidbringer(?) , OR Wilson is an Eliminator and this is part of a plan which I don't know what their motive could be."

 

I now know that this theory was incorrect, but hey, I'm proud I said she was maybe a voidbringer even though it was totally a guess.   

[Elbereth she/her]

Still voting for Wilson. WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!! She is the ultimate evil!

Edit: Elbereth, found that page with the Scattergories line.

Ah, got it. Also, that was unexpectedly pretty interesting!

She knew her time was up. The odds were slim that a kandra hadn’t scanned her last night, with the urgency Davenar had placed on that. Her cover was blown, even if she hadn’t been outed yet. She turned around, facing the crew.

Who's Davenar? He's not in the crew manifest.

I mean, you could look at this like a sort of obvious WGG. Of course, I'm not a fan of that viewpoint, but...if it gets me killed, I won't complain, because I picked out Evil!Wilson. And after I die, I'll have time to psychoanalyze her PM messages to me!

What's a WGG?

You are new, so I don't have one for you. I need at least one game (finished) to start. Preferably two, with different alignments. For now, my profiles are private. They aren't very good, and are only really understandable to me.

Like I said, it's psycho-babble, and most of it (if not all) is only understandable to me, so I doubt that these red flags would make a lot of sense unless they were compared in-depth to previous actions. That's one of the drawbacks of this communication format: One can think through a thousand things in one's brain much faster than one can write it all out.

And also, the profiles would be a lot less useful if everyone could see them.

So. Several thoughts.

First, one of the ways this works in the traitors' favor is that it diminishes discussion, which is irritating.

Secondly, if she is a Voidbringer, couldn't we just have two Mistborn target her? Because I know there's been mention of multiple Mistborn claiming. Would that work? Would it be worth tying up two or more Mistborn?

Third, it is much more likely that the Surgebinder who wrote the message was in fact a traitor. Otherwise someone got very, very lucky with a joke. In fact, I feel that it's very possible that Wilson herself is a Surgebinder. Thus it would be advantageous for the traitors to cut her out early. Also, you'll notice that there haven't been any more messages. That means either there isn't a loyal Surgebinder, or that Surgebinder is inactive and hasn't been paying attention. And we are planning to kill the inactives via Mistborn. So PMs have a good likelihood of going down within the next few cycles.

Since we know Wilson is a traitor, I would propose to not lynch her or kill her yet. Obviously we have to eventually, in order to win the game, but we can treat her like we would a converted HI for now. Just ignore her until later in the game. This means we can lynch someone else for now (provoking more discussion), continue to kill inactives with the Mistborn, and leave her alone until we've killed some more traitors. So I will not place a vote on her for now.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Elbereth

[Amanuensis he/him]

@Orlok: keep in mind that I have not directed anyone let alone asked anyone for information, I have only made suggestions of what I think is best and never demanded anyone tell me their role. Do I think it was wise for so many people to come to me within the first two turns? NoI don't, but it happened even though I never asked for or wanted that responsibility. I still give everyone the freedom of choice. All I am doing is providing advice. In regards to the bit with the Mistborn, killing inactive was their idea. He by no means had to listen to me about the order I think would have been best let alone needs to listen to me on this. I only made a suggestion in thread that would get more people to talk, which is the real reason I did it. It is impossible to catch a traitor in their lies if they never speak up. If everyone talks it will be much easier to determine who among us has ulterior motives.

EDITED TO ADD additionally I have not been controlling information. Yes, once I learn something I keep it to myself unless I highly suspect a person is evil and need to explain why to someone or I want to instigate a reaction out of a player I suspect, but I don't prevent them from sharing their role with anyone else. It is of my opinion that if someone trusts me enough to reveal their role outright than it is my responsibility to keep that between the two of us. If they want someone to know their role that is entirely up to them. I am not playing a mayor game by any means. I am not forcing people to do anything. I am simply doing what everyone should; being proactive in finding the traitors and making my opinions known to everyone so that if someone doesn't want to reveal to me they still receive ideas for them to consider.

Also I should note that "threatening lurkers with the Mistborn" is the exact same thing as threatening them with the lynch, except perhaps more dangerous for them as it is only one player who has to decide their fate over the majority. Personally I think you are blowing my actions out of proportion but either way I'm glad to have someone who vocally opposes my actions.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Adavantos

[Kipper]

What's a WGG?

And also, the profiles would be a lot less useful if everyone could see them.

 

A WGG is when an Eliminator gets attacked by an Eliminator and survives, in it's most basic form. The idea being, "Well, I got attacked by the Eliminators," so I can't be evil. It can take many, many different forms, and I was saying that this could be a modified form of it. As in, I post this big long thing about Wilson being evil, and then vote her, and stay there through the whole day, then do it again the next day. If I was an Eliminator, I could do that to lessen the suspicion on me. The obvious counter to this is "Well, why would I intentionally get Wilson killed and lose a very experienced player on my team?"

 

My thoughts exactly on the profiles.

[Paranoid King he/him]

Since we know Wilson is a traitor, I would propose to not lynch her or kill her yet. Obviously we have to eventually, in order to win the game, but we can treat her like we would a converted HI for now. Just ignore her until later in the game. This means we can lynch someone else for now (provoking more discussion), continue to kill inactives with the Mistborn, and leave her alone until we've killed some more traitors. So I will not place a vote on her for now.

Problem is, the converted HI has nothing to contribute other than a vote. (And you can't kill him anyways.) Wilson may have a role we would like to get rid of.