Long Game 15: ...The Shards Themselves...

[Arrae]

Rae opened her eyes, still half asleep. She could hear voices in the hallway, talking about... bad smells and PMs and trains of lynching?

Wha...? How much did I miss?

Then she heard that a crewmember, Shallan, had been dissolved in acid. Her eyes flew open. What exactly had happened when she was asleep?

 

 

 

Adavantos, from the amount you've been posting, I don't think that you're a traitor anymore. I'm not sure if my vote is still on you, so I've greened your name just in case. Is your character name First of Dawn? If it isn't, then something weird has happened because I never changed my voted after placing it on you.

 

The lynch on Shallan feels really unexpected. I've read over the LG post, and the parts relating to Shallan are:

 yesterday 6:42 PMphattemer votes for Shallan "because it amuses him"

[a while later]

today 10: 34 AM Shallan gives advice about what to do if you are a particular role, including kandra.

10: 44 AM Wilson votes Shallan because it strikes her as off. Wilson also says that it only repeats information that has been said.

10: 49 AM Kipper retracts from Adavantos and votes for Shallan. He tallies the vote.

10: 58 AM Bort retracts from Bridge Boy and votes for Shallan. Says he agrees with Wilson and Kipper.

[a while later]

11: 44 AM HI votes for Shallan and retracts vote on Burnt Spaghetti

11:45 AM Stink asks if people want to counter vote

11:46 AM Kipper says we won't know full story until Bridge Boy AND Shallan are dead.

11:47 AM Creccio retracts vote on Shallan

11:49 AM Kipper says he feels "tainted by this bandwagon."

11:58 AM Elbereth notes the coordinated vote shift to Shallan

12:01 PM GM says it is turnover

12:10 PM Alfa defends Shallan

 

Times are the times recorded on the forum, information here is NOT a complete summary, names may have been misspelled.

Kipper, Wilson, and Bort seem suspicious now.

Has anyone noticed any monkeying around with the votes?

 

What do you do during the nighttime anyways?

 

EDIT: Just wanted to say, Kipper, for some reason I really want to draw ears on your profile picture.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Arraenae

[Clanky he/him]

Sorry for not getting in to place a vote last cycle. My internet has been down at my house all day. 

 

So, looking back, the whole Shallan lynch train is really, really odd. Why would a post making an effort to at least make some analysis, admittedly that no one has brought up yet, be suspicious enough to have a lynch train against? I wouldn't be surprised to find some eliminators on that train. Also, Creccio's last minute removal is very suspect.

 

Does the eliminator kill not happen until after the Night shift is over?

 

Also, I never got a chance to respond to this remark by Adavantos (for some reason it won't let me quote directly).

"Ripple: Continues to put doubt into the plans of others without thinking them through fully (not including the fact that the HI can check the roles of anyone who approaches him)." 

While it is true that the HI can check the roles, it seems a waste to use them on people whose roles you are 99% sure about. That still leaves the possible 1%. Even if he did check, would he even find out before becoming corrupted? That is what I was trying to get at. I feel like I'm over-analyzing this plan a bit, but I don't think it is a guaranteed thing, and that's important.

I think that it may actually be best for the HI to scan people who claim to them. That way you can catch them in a lie.

 

 

Also I'm still confused after reading the end of last cycle what exactly Shallan was lynched for. It seems kind of like people just wanted to lynch an inactive but not someone who was fully inactive. I am all for lynching less active people but the whole point of a day 1 lynch is to generate discussion since it is unlikely we will actually find a traitor. So why did we lynch anyone then?

[RippleGylf she/her]

I suppose it is up to the HI whom he chooses to inspect.

 

I believe, looking back on it, Shallan was lynched for "not really adding anything," according to those who voted for her.

[Clanky he/him]

I understand that and that is a reasonable reason to lynch someone. However the first lynch isn't really expected to be successful so lynching someone for not doing much on the first day doesn't give us the same amount of info as going for someone who has said stuff or interacted with people in ways that can be analyzed. 

 

Basically I think we gained less info lynching Shallan than we would have from Bridge or Adavantos and that's really what day one lynches are al about.

[Kaid he/him]

Clanky, I agree, for some reason I still feel a tickling when Adavantos name comes up. Also, Kipper seems a bit suspect to me, although I don't know why.

[The Cow he/him]

My two cents on D1 lynches: there are two kinds of D1 lynches, being Policy Lynches and Information Lynches. Policy lynches takes out a player because of how that player plays, or because that player may become a hazard later on. For example: lynch a player who is notoriously inactive, to the extent that it hurts the Town.

Information lynches focus on taking a player out of the equation, but leaving behind whatever web of connections that player had -- or to hope that the player flips evil.

 

The former might focus on the future by taking out problematic elements. The latter either focuses on the present by attempting to remove evil immediately or the future by allowing for future successes via bolstered informational wells.

 

Our D1 lynch falls somewhere in the middle, I would think.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Clanky, I think it was because people were hedging. I am guilty of this as well, so I'm not pointing fingers here. But there are two things people are afraid of in day 1 lynches. The first is killing someone that has an important role or the ability to contribute a lot of discussion or something along those lines. The second is killing a player that has simply forgotten to check the thread. In these term, the lynch on Shalllan makes sense. She checked the thread, so she wouldn't be lynched for accidental inactivity. And what she posted was judged as unhelpful, so people didn't consider her too much of a loss (apologies if I am misreading anybody's motives. This is how I see things playing out).

 

So mostly I see people as just trying to play safe, and the eliminators might have hopped on that as a result.

[Kipper]

Rae opened her eyes, still half asleep. She could hear voices in the hallway, talking about... bad smells and PMs and trains of lynching?

Wha...? How much did I miss?

Then she heard that a crewmember, Shallan, had been dissolved in acid. Her eyes flew open. What exactly had happened when she was asleep?

 

 

 

Adavantos, from the amount you've been posting, I don't think that you're a traitor anymore. I'm not sure if my vote is still on you, so I've greened your name just in case. Is your character name First of Dawn? If it isn't, then something weird has happened because I never changed my voted after placing it on you.

 

The lynch on Shallan feels really unexpected. I've read over the LG post, and the parts relating to Shallan are:

 yesterday 6:42 PMphattemer votes for Shallan "because it amuses him"

[a while later]

today 10: 34 AM Shallan gives advice about what to do if you are a particular role, including kandra.

10: 44 AM Wilson votes Shallan because it strikes her as off. Wilson also says that it only repeats information that has been said.

10: 49 AM Kipper retracts from Adavantos and votes for Shallan. He tallies the vote.

10: 58 AM Bort retracts from Bridge Boy and votes for Shallan. Says he agrees with Wilson and Kipper.

[a while later]

11: 44 AM HI votes for Shallan and retracts vote on Burnt Spaghetti

11:45 AM Stink asks if people want to counter vote

11:46 AM Kipper says we won't know full story until Bridge Boy AND Shallan are dead.

11:47 AM Creccio retracts vote on Shallan

11:49 AM Kipper says he feels "tainted by this bandwagon."

11:58 AM Elbereth notes the coordinated vote shift to Shallan

12:01 PM GM says it is turnover

12:10 PM Alfa defends Shallan

 

Times are the times recorded on the forum, information here is NOT a complete summary, names may have been misspelled.

Kipper, Wilson, and Bort seem suspicious now.

Has anyone noticed any monkeying around with the votes?

 

What do you do during the nighttime anyways?

 

EDIT: Just wanted to say, Kipper, for some reason I really want to draw ears on your profile picture.

I still do feel tainted by that bandwagon. I swear to you, I was ninja'd by Wilson while I was writing my post, and I just c/p'd my post, refreshed, and she had said everything I was going to say. And then everyone else hopped on it. So I figured I would get suspicion for it, because I will be viewed as part of the reason it started.

 

Aww, thank you. That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me all day, perhaps all week. I don't know how long I'll leave it like this, but it is Guy Fawke's Day, and as I said in the Random Stuff thread,

Clanky, I agree, for some reason I still feel a tickling when Adavantos name comes up. Also, Kipper seems a bit suspect to me, although I don't know why.

Neither do I...here, I'll PM you, and we can talk it out.

[RippleGylf she/her]

I think that it was a somewhat reasonable reason to lynch Shallan, aside from the fact that I didn't feel like it was specifically unhelpful. I see it (admittedly through the bias of having seen the result) as an attempt to contribute given time restraints and inability to go back and reread the entire day's worth of conversation. However, I can see how some would see it as redundant information. The lynch train itself seems more suspect to me than the motivations behind the initial votes.

[Arrae]

 

 

Citoan Vinid (6): Wynde Wilson, Tigger, Obsidius Caesis Dormiam, Bort, HELLSCYTHE

Rae thought over the incidents of the day. Six people, including the HI, had voted for Shallan, according to the captain. But only 5 people were known to do it. Was it a totaling error of some kind, or vote manipulation?

 

Rae shivered at the thought. Old legends about Soothers, and Rioters said that they could slip thoughts into a person's mind and make them turn on their friends and family. The God Counselor Breeze had been a Soother. 

 

And Feruchemists that had access to duraluminum were said to be even worse. Rae hadn't felt the effects firsthand, but on her last voyage, she'd seen a crewmember, Wilson (possibly related to this crew's Wilson) turn into First of Dawn's slave. It was like she had become a Lifeless that had been painted to look alive.

[little wilson she/her]

Before I voted for Shallan, there had been all sorts of discussion around Adavantos and BB and the general consensus was that people didn't think either were traitors. I generally agreed with this. However, other players (namely Maill and Stink) seemed to be simply voting for BB solely to get someone lynched so we could learn something. I agree that the lynch gives us information, but when everyone is under the assumption that the person they're voting for is a villager and it is very likely that they are indeed a villager, how much information can you really gain? Most of the people voting for Bridge Boy were probably villagers themselves, and even throwing in the Adavantos voters, I doubt we've got more than 2 eliminators in that number. We were pretty keen to lynch someone and when the village is keen to lynch someone, the eliminators generally can stay out of it and just watch a lynch go down. The only reason they'd have to really get involved is if one of their own is on the line, but I don't think that was the case here. More on that in a bit.

 

It seemed to me that the best solution was to find someone else for the lynch. I knew that Shallan had been on the forum but she hadn't posted until just then. Nor had she posted that she would be busy (at least, I don't recall any such post before the game began). Her post wasn't very helpful, so I placed my vote there and offered her as a potential substitute. When I did this, I didn't really expect it to work, but I figured I'd try it.

 

It's hard to be certain if Kipper was honestly going to say exactly what I said, but I think he was. He doesn't really have much reason to lie about it, even if he's an eliminator, so I'm going to take him at his word. I think he saw what I did and there was no point in repeating it.  Given how close he posted after me, that's believable. Bort is the one I'm interested in. He switched his vote about 10 minutes after Kipper and ties up the lynch. I'm also wondering if he might be the Feruchemist as well who switched the votes to ensure a lynch. This is, obviously, assuming that an eliminator got involved with the lynch votes themselves, beyond just the Feruchemist (since they well may have avoided the votes and relied upon their Feruchemist).

 

Here's what I think: I don't think any of the lynch option were traitors. I know some people are suspicious of Adavantos but I'm not getting an evil vibe from him. Does that mean I really trust him? No. On a scale of 0-100 where 0 is the most suspicious and 100 is most trusted, most of the players are at 50 and Adavantos is at about 60. Maybe 65. As for BB, I've already said that his actions don't add up if he were an eliminator, but beyond that, the lynch was tied. If he was an eliminator, I would think that a tie would be the most ideal situation, because vote shenanigans just place suspicion on the person who had a vote taken from them. This indicates, at least to me, that the eliminators didn't care who died. They just wanted someone to die, and they could implicate the other lynch candidate even better by pulling a vote from him to place on the lynchee.

 

Could this be wrong? Absolutely. I make mistakes, as is evidenced with the Shallan mislynch. I wish that the other voters had said more than just "I agree with Wilson" but there's not anything that can be done about that now--though I do wish that people wouldn't just follow me into votes without adding their own reasoning beyond just agreement with me. It doesn't have to be much, but just saying "I agree with Wilson" isn't really a reason to kill someone that I'm voting for, and to be honest, it's a little disturbing to vote for someone and then watch a bunch of people follow me onto that vote without any additional reasoning beyond my own. Thanks for the trust, I guess? But please, I'd prefer wariness, honestly.

 

Anyway, Bort is my strongest suspect right now.

[Kipper]

"Honey! Tiggers LOVE HONEY!"

 

Tigger almost bounced into the mess table, too excited to notice where he was going. He threw himself into a seat next to the startled crew members. After tying a large handkerchief around his neck, he dug into the honey.

 

"Mmm, so good! Oh boy, honey. That's what Tiggers like best!" His way of eating honey was really quite simple. He simply squeezed it out onto his paw in a giant patty, and then licked it off. Truth be told, he probably (in terms of volume) got more on his face than in his face, but who honestly cared? Who needed to be scientific about eating honey? Honey is honey, and that is all Tigger needed to know.

 

At this point, the crew members were thoroughly disgusted, and one had turned a little green. Tigger tried to sit with a different group of them every time, hoping to convert them to the way of honey. As of yet, they were all still a bit reticent and shy.

 

Tigger finished up the squeeze bottle and left the mess hall.

[queensteph she/her]

Kipper.... https://youtu.be/4RGt10EFKCs

 

Edited so as to not double post:

My thoughts on the whole Shallan thing is that the whole thing seemed pretty suspicious and it's sad that we lost a Kandra.
I don't really have any suspicions on Wilson because she was just going with her own suspicions and I'm going to take Kipper at his word for now, but Bort's vote seemed easily swayed and I would like for him to explain why he agreed so quickly with Wilson and Kipper. I also am awaiting Creccio's explanation as to why he removed his vote on Bridge Boy as I know several of you have mentioned before me.

Edited November 6, 2015 by queensteph

[Kasimir he/him]

Kipper: In response to your question from last cycle, the truth is that I'm not strongly committed to either. I think either path is/was a distinct possibility, and allowing the Eliminators control for information works under specific kinds of circumstances--so as I mentioned, we're both agreed that we're better off pursuing genuine suspicion, if it exists.
 
I leave it to your imagination as to whether Day 1 suspicions ought to be classified as 'genuine' or 'particularly helpful'. My personal view is that we would have to be very, very lucky to have a preferable case of genuine suspicion on Day 1.
 
The reason why I'm not strongly committed to either is that I think they have their own possibilities and pitfalls. The most obvious pitfall is that Plan Allow Action doesn't work as good when articulated (since it allows Eliminator control, but even then, still tells you something about where they want you to look.) In addition, the bigger issue is that for either strategy, IMO, you need Crew cooperation, or either case backfires. Because if the entire Crew is on board with the usual lynch strategy, then obviously anyone who ties the vote is going to be seen as a Traitor/working counter to the Crew's purposes. And vice versa. In cases of strategy/methodology, I prefer to make recommendations and to open possibilities for the Crew, rather than telling people what to do.
 
We could argue about whether it works. I could appeal to the fact Meta has used this on occasion, but might get accused of argumentum ad Meta. (Although I should note that appeal to authority tends to be misidentified as a fallacy by people since even the strictest logician accepts that we should defer to epistemic authority.)
 
My bottom line, I would say, is that I see reasoning in an Elimination game as being fundamentally Bayesian. Or, as my favourite image puts it:



I won't explain it unless someone actually wants me to go into Bayesian epistemology, this is just my favourite bit about how we react to evidence and I like talking about it everywhere  [Edit: My thesis used to be on this before, alas, it had to depart for other waters and studying other types of inference/reasoning practices.] My point then is that while it would be irrational to reject 'genuine suspicion'/stronger evidence, I don't think we have that on Day 1 an awful lot. And if we do not, then, have overriding evidence, then our starting point actually is not significant. What matters is: A. evidence collection, B. updating/revising our beliefs appropriately in response to evidence. And of course, C. promoting lots of discussion so we can facilitate evidence collection, using the evidence from the lynch and the night kill, etcetera.
 
So really, that's my perspective, at the end of it. I don't prefer either because I really don't see one method as being intrinsically better than another. (For goodness' sake, if I thought Allowing Control was obviously better, then the question naturally arises as to why I've never promoted it in past games.) My answer to Eliminator mind games, and cases of I Know You Know has, similarly, always been the same: we can deal with them by collecting evidence and updating our beliefs. Put in a non-abstract way, if evidence doesn't support a layer, the layer likely doesn't exist. That's the best we all have to go on, and frankly, it's rather good.

 

Edit 2: Sorry, Kipper, realised I wasn't direct enough in addressing your question--Upshot: yes, it's easy to discuss without taking a position. But you'd have grounds to call me on it if I refused to take a position on everything. At this point, I do think both are equally fair as options, and that there is no reason to prefer either. But failing to take a position on this tactical issue doesn't mean I don't have any principled positions, even if I'm playing to Urbain Paranoia right now Be back later after my papers with more paranoia!

Edited November 6, 2015 by Kasimir

[Amanuensis he/him]

I know that this is going to seem incredibly suspect but I really don't care at this point. If you are a Mistborn I would appreciate it a lot if you sent me a PM and claimed. Thanks.

 

EDIT: On that note, if you are not comfortable doing so, I would suggest attacking whichever of the two other players that were up for the lynch prior to the Shallan Debacle that you find more suspicious. It will help paint a better picture of what happened last turn and as I have stated before, I am okay with being killed knowing it will help the crew in the long term.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Adavantos

[Bort he/him]

Excellent. I have Wilson on my case again. I'm still not sure how she pegged me as an Eliminator last time. This time, however, her suspicions are unfounded. Voting for Shallan was just a bad mistake.

 

To answer the questions about why I voted for her so soon after Kipper and Wilson, I read Shallan's post within a few minutes of it was posted, and thought there was something off about it then. It looked like she was posting just to appear active, to look as though she was contributing, but really all it looked like to me was that she was restating stuff from the rules, so contributing, but not.

 

Then I was called away from my PC for a few minutes (never leave cat poo lying in the litter tray - it can gas your house out within minutes!), and when I got back, Wilson had already said what I was thinking, and Kipper had already agreed. Since I was thinking the same thing anyways, I decided to post. My suspicions about Bridge Boy were fairly weak anyways, and I tended to agree with those who said he wouldn't have made a mistake like that had he been a traitor (I just didn't have anywhere else to put my vote earlier in the cycle), so if I had better suspicions, I felt I should go for them.

 

In my last post, all I said was 'ouch', but I should also probably say sorry. I had my suspicions about Shallan, they were wrong, and now we've lost a Kandra.

[STINK he/him]

Everyone after Wilson agreed with Wilson.

Should I be surprised?

[Kasimir he/him]

Sonder’d meant to catch some sleep, but he’d soon been blearily hauled out of his bunk when the alarms went off. He’d heard that they’d arrested someone and the Captain’d ordered her put in the brig while they decided what to do about her, but he’d been going off an exhausting shift then, and hadn’t paid the matter much heed.

How much changed in the span of a few hours.

First, the arrested crewmember—he didn’t know her, she hadn’t been with engineering, at least—ended up having been murdered in her cell, which didn’t make Sonder feel all that much better about this ship, much less this contract, which was supposed to run for at least a sixth month stint, with the possibility of an extension to a year. He sipped at his cooling coffee and tried to repress a shudder. Falcio’d seen that, he was certain.

Second, the arrested crewmember’d turned out to have been a kandra. The traitors, whoever they were, had known. They’d ripped out her spikes and killed her with acid, one of the few known ways of killing a kandra. Second’d come into the engine room with a gigantic scowl and picked one or two people and sent them to pull up the surveillance camera monitoring the brig for the security personnel. They returned later, chastened, only to be yelled at by Second when he found out that the recordings had been deleted, or the cameras had been tampered with, or something.

Sonder didn’t envy them. He knew what it was like when Second hated you.

How did they even get acid, on board this ship? They probably had some chemical supplies, but to do that…

He shook his head wearily. That wasn’t his purview. Security on the vessel was supposed to be handled—or mishandled—by the Head of Security, the Chief Mate, and goodness only knew who else, however the Heron Mining Corporation wanted this ship organised. It certainly wasn’t his job. But that thought still wasn’t comforting.

Was this what Chief Arnkell’d meant, when he said that working corporate was a whole different thing from signing on with a merchant ship? His respect for the man increased drastically. Sonder was already feeling vastly lost in the complex world of the Shardship; the barely-veiled hostility of his superior officer wasn’t at all helping.

And of course, that meant that when the Third in charge of the comm systems, Falcio’d needed someone to help him, Sonder’d been volunteered by Second; an amused, proto-malicious glint in his eye.

“Don’t know what Cap’s thinking,” Falcio rumbled. He didn’t seem discomfited by the fact that Second’d chosen to furnish him only with a beleaguered Fourth Engineer, rather than any of the juniors or cadets he had lying around. He shook his head as he tinkered with the offending server. The others looked somewhat taken aback by the statement. “Monkeying with the ship’s systems by Hemalurgically inserting a separate intelligence into it’s asking for trouble. What happens if it goes rogue, eh?”

“Then we shut it down,” ventured one of the juniors.

Falcio rolled his eyes and swatted ineffectually at him with a large hand. “Yeah, and how’re we gonna do that, you think? There’s an access door to get to the hardware. It’s computerised. You think the HI can’t access it and lock it off? HI controls the airlocks, the pressure systems, oxygen systems…” he counted them all off on his fingers. “Be suicidal to try and take it down. It’s a violation of all safety procedures we know of. An HI gone rogue could kill us all.”

Probably didn’t help Falcio’s mood that Second’d been chewing his arse about fixing the comms issue, Sonder thought. With the sudden influx of emails and personal messages being sent come the start of the night shift, some of the ship’s comm systems had abruptly failed. To make matters worse, a good amount of that flood had come in the form of spam emails. That was about the point when he’d been dragged out of his bunk, told to report to the engine room, and then informed by Second that he was going to pull some overtime helping Third get things normal again. Sonder shook his head. At least no more of the crew were reporting having received the spam emails, so with the spam filters reconfigured, all they needed to do was make sure the systems were green again.

The comm section was unusually empty. Sonder’d heard most of them had been tapped to go and work on the Hemalurgic systems instead, managing the Captain’s new insertion of the dead crew member into the ship’s systems.

“Could shut it down from the bridge,” another junior said, hesitantly. “Cap’s got the override, doesn’t he?”

Darkly, Falcio said, “Won’t do him any good if he’s dead, will it?”

Instantly, the mood in the room changed; grew darker, grimmer. Sonder found himself looking up from his work. “Uh, Third?”

“It’s da Gama, Kessligh,” Falcio corrected. “And what?”

“Well, uh, I was thinking, that…well, it sounds awfully like you think Cap’s going to die,” Sonder stammered.

Falcio rolled his eyes. “Listen up, you lot,” he said, glancing away from Sonder to the rest of the motley group he’d been saddled with. “Yeah, it’s pretty storming obvious that there’s a bunch of people here trying to sabotage what they’re doing, and you bet they’d be after the Captain, because Cap’s got eyes in the back of his head, and long as he’s alive, he’ll stop them from taking over the ship and mining operations. And if Cap’s dead, control passes down the deck to the Mate, and so on—leaving all of us out of the loop. But that doesn’t help if the Mate’s not going to get to the Bridge. So there’s nothing we can do about that storming thing, got it?

“But then…”

“I think,” Falcio said, thunderously, “We have systems that need checking. Get back to it!”

Sonder nodded and fell silent. It was, he thought, going to be a very long night.
 
-
 
OOC: Not much useful stuff from me tonight. Got an email from my supervisor indicating he wants the proofs yesterday and since he's paying me and y'all are not, I'm gonna drop down one or two activity levels while I handle it 

[Kipper]

[iNFORMATION REDACTED]

 

I HOPE you didn't show that to the rest of the crew, because I don't want the secret getting out right now. Sit tight and all will become clear.

[Amanuensis he/him]

The Shallan Debacle; a Response to the Day 1 Lynch and the Players Involved

Adavantos

LG15, Class G

20151106

 

Lynch, verb: to (of a mob) kill (someone), especially by hanging, for an alleged offense with or without a legal trial.

 

It's easy to find a definition for the word lynch. Anyone with access to the internet or a dictionary can do it. But do you know what isn't easy? Finding a reason to lynch. And yet you may be surprised to learn how quickly people will condemn one another without a trial, let alone any evidence. Braize! You might even be disgusted. I know I am. Human life - or in this case, Kandra - is the most valuable commodity in the Cosmere, and I can't help but feel disturbed by how so many are so willing to just throw it away without just cause.

 

Unease of the situation aside, this is a serious problem; one that I cannot allow to go unanswered. Please allow me to refer to a quote by yours truly, said approximately 4 hours before the Shallan Debacle took place.

 

While I am certainly willing to die today, I am going to place a vote on Bridge Boy. I am of the same mindset as Araris, in that I would like to hear more about why he's voting for me besides a bandwagon. I shouldn't have to say this, but just because someone is being voted for by other players doesn't mean you need to. If you think someone is evil, then do it. If you don't, don't. And if you do vote for someone, please don't do it without an explanation. Even if it's just because your gut is telling to, try to add some reason to it. It's not as hard as you might think, just takes a bit of brainpower to find whats setting you off and put it into words.

 

Underline mine. I was right. I shouldn't have to say this. Yet I did, and players chose to ignore my advice anyway. And for what reason? Allow me to show you:

 

Hello.

I am probably not going to vote today, but I will try to do so every day from now on.

As for my opinion on the HI: I am fairly certain they would start on our side. We don't have any way to make sure, since our Kandra are probably better off actually scanning people, and no other role can detect alignment. I don't really believe we need to have the Hemalurgists contact the HI. Although Deathclutch probably wouldn't arrange to have them killed(probably=definitely in SE), it isn't a risk we need to take what with all the ways it could go wrong. (Eliminator Hemalurgist, Fake Eliminator Hemalurgist, 2 is still a lot.)

I guess, since nobody else has done this, I will give my thoughts on what the roles should do:

 

HI: I guess just find players' roles. Not the most useful role, to be honest. Possibly could target almost lynched people, and if they are useful then get them not lynched. But they could still be an Eliminator.

Voidbringer: ...I don't think I need to discuss this.

Surgebinder: Don't die, but also use the message in the write-up well. Could be used for confirmation should you ever need to role-claim(don't), but also an anonymous message could be good.

Elantrian: Probably just target yourselves until you find a Kandra or another extremely valuable role.

Forger: Once roles are available, if they're useful then spread them out. Try to pick someone you trust, but also watch out for overwriting an important role (for 2 cycles).

Feruchemist: Right now, we want to know if there are any Traitor Feruchemists, so please don't use your power.

Mistborn: The rules don't actually say you can kill, so just chill. Actually, maybe people that the lynch almost hits.

Kandra: Alignment alignment alignment. Already been mentioned.

BioChromancer: I don't know. People the lynch misses?

Hemalurgist: Don't die if you're loyal, and I don't think you should contact the HI.

 

3 votes within 30 minutes, all over a single post. This post. But why?

 

I'm going to vote for Shallan. Her post just now strikes me as off similarly to how Stink's from 15a struck me as off--it's saying stuff, but not really saying anything. It's mostly just repeating what's already been said, and while she gives ideas for what each role should do, it's basic stuff that the roles were probably already going to do. So even that isn't bringing anything new. That's the most obvious area for an eliminator to skate by in: posting a little bit and seeming to be contributing but not actually contributing anything. So my vote's there.

 

Actually, I was just about to retract from Adavantos and go for Shallan, but wilson ninja'd me while I was writing this post and said almost exactly what I was going to say.

 

I know this is going to seem like jumping on a bandwagon, but I really do have to agree with Wilson and Kipper. There is something decidedly off about Shallan's post. Wilson summed it up pretty well.

 

So, Bridge Boy. Shallan.

 

Because what Shallan said seems off? Instinct is great for founding suspicion, but it should never be the sole factor in determining the fate of another player.

 

Because Shallan was "saying stuff, but not really saying anything?" Because Shallan didn't "bring anything new?" Let me ask this. How many other players were guilty of doing that exact same thing across the 47 hours that took place prior to her first post? Plenty! And yet their alignments weren't questioned, their lives weren't put on the line. Why not them? Why Shallan?

 

Because she seemed like she was trying to skate by? Well as you can now see the traitors aren't the only ones who might want to do that. If you were a Kandra, wouldn't you be wary about drawing attention to yourself, lest the baddies decide to assassinate you before you can make use of your role? I certainly would.

 

You might be asking yourself by now what my point in saying all of this is. Well, it's simple. This way of going around killing each other is wrong; both from a moral and logical standpoint. How can you have the heart to send a person screaming to damnation based on conjencture? Given how weak the argument was with to begin with I don't even think it can even be called that! There was no evidence. No information. Just seemings and feelings. For those who weren't directly involved, how can you stand by and watch it happen without getting involved? I had done everything I could within my own power to stop it - even encouraged another player to help tie the vote again - and yet so many just watched it happen, offering defenses far too late to be of any use or not speaking up entirely until the results were up for all to see.

 

We cannot not continue to play like this, friends. Nine times out of ten baseless, blind lynches end in the eliminator's favor. Just because we as a collective have the power to kill someone does not mean we should. What bothers me so much is how little we can even learn from Shallan's death compared to Bridge Boy's or my own. That, and the fact that I'm willing to bet that none of the three player's I just quoted above are even evil!

 

If we are going to kill someone, it should be for a real reason, and not decided within the very last hour. We have 48 hours a day to discuss who we should kill based off what we know. If we know nothing, then don't vote! Instead of the traitors only taking out one loyalist this cycle we're now going to end it with two in the morgue. And in my opinion that is just unsat. By perpetuating this mindset that it's okay to

 

All I'm saying is we need to give every player a just trial before we execute them. If you are suspicious of someone you need to tell them what they've done to warrant it and demand an explanation. It's one thing if they have nothing good to say or choose to ignore your accusations, but another entirely when you never give them the opportunity to speak.

 

Just think about this for a second. Without the lynch the traitors can only kill a single player a cycle. In order to win with that resource alone they would need to land a successful kill the next 17 cycles without losing any of their own. 17 cycles is a very long time for the loyalists to gather information about one another - whether by using whatever abilities they might be blessed with or communication alone - and can only be extended by the Voidbringers and Elantrians out there. If it's true that they have a Feruchemist - which after last night I believe to be the case - we are \ providing them a ripe opportunity to manipulate and kill us by being so unorganized.

 

That aside, let's take a closer look at those who were essential in Shallan's demise.

 

Phattemer

 

Phattemer is what I like to refer to as a habitual inactive. Though I've never asked him myself, I've noticed that in most of the games I've played he says very little, if nothing at all. What's interesting is the quote I'm about to show you, due to its lack of content, contradictory nature and unexplained vote.

 

Well, I just read through the thread, and am thoroughly confused. So we talked about the HI(L 9000. that does not make me want to trust it), and then what? Personally, I support a day 1 lynch, but I have no idea whom we should pick. I also detest the idea of a Contribution Crusade lunch day 1. They remind me a bit of the (WoT)

Spoiler 

Whitecloaks

. But for now I will drop a vote on Shallan, because it amuses me. 

 

What sticks out to me is the fact that he puts a vote on another player who I also recognize as a habitual inactive after saying that he does not support a Contribution Crusade lynch* - a movement based on the idea of killing off inactives before actives in order to perpertuate discussion. Given that his post takes place ~16 hours before the lynchtrain on Shallan, it's a bit of a stretch to assume he is an eliminator for this reason. It is certainly possible that he is just an innocent bystander trying to lay low for his own personal reasons, or given the coordination of what ended up taking place was an elaborate set up for him and another ally to make a play to confuse the crew. If phattemer turns out to be evil I would bet a lot of money on either Wilson or Kipper being his accomplice, if not both.

Wilson

 

Wilson is dangerous for many reasons, but what I want to draw attention to is her inherent ability to instigate bandwagons with a vote and nothing more. Though she offerred reasoning for it (which I have already gone over) I can't help but feel like she did a bit of reaching to find them. It is my understanding that there have been several instances in the past where she has offerred a player as a lynch alternative for no other reason than her gut and others followed her example. I'm not sure if it's because of her reputation or if she's tapping duralumin, but I'm sure she's aware of this and in the event of her being evil may have used it to her team's advantage. After all, if no one followed her lead who would question her? If people did she could easily hide behind the fact that she began the bandwagon and had no way of predicting that it would begin. It's a solid defense, really. And for all we know it could be true. Still, I'm far from being convinced she's innocent and ask that from now on people practice caution when interacting with her.

 

Kipper

 

Kipper's last hour retraction on me in favor of another player could have been genuine, but I am not so certain. I can't help but feel that it was his intention from the beginning to take it off me towards the end in favor of someone else. Maybe he only chose Shallan because her post rubbed him the wrong way. Maybe it's because he was neither convinced of BB and I being evil and wanted to attack an alternative. Maybe it's because one of the people up for the lynch - if not both - are on the dark side of the force along with him and he wanted to draw attention elsewhere. Maybe it's because phatt and him are two peas in the same eliminator pod and had planned to instigate a bandwagon long before. I'm more leaning towards him being honest and innocent, but of course I'm going to watch him closely, especially considering that he expressed doubts about his vote after Bort joined in and still didn't retract.

 

Bort

 

Has been on my watch list since the second half of Day 1. Overall hasn't done anything particularly damning - however, something that bothers me is what he said right before turnover. Here's the quote for consideration:

 

This is exciting. I don't think I've ever been on (or at least, on and awake) for a rollover before.

 

It isn't much to go on. I just am looking at this through my own personal experiences. This reminds me of the euphoria Kipper, Stink and I felt in LG15a when we made the last minute play to kill off the Captain. For a text based game on a forum my heart was beating much to fast for its own good, and I've only ever felt that way when I had a plan in the works and was eager to see the results. This is by no means a reason to have him killed, but something I want to draw attention to.

 

Deathclutch

 

I am not happy with the decision he made because of the fact that it misaligns so much with my own, but sadly I can't do anything about him or it so it's pointless for me to make an accusations. That is all.

 

Creccio

 

Has explained to me the reasons for why he did what he did via PM. If you are curious feel free to ask him yourself. I have my own opinions on his answer and likely other people will too. Ultimately I think we need more time to observe him, as well as every other (living) player I've addressed in this post.

 

 

Due to the fact that my shift is about to finish I am going to end this post here. In summary, I think all of the players who voted for Shallan are good, but even then I think it's important to look over everything they've said and done prior to and make your own observations. I would like to hear everyone's opinions on the subjects I discussed, as well as explanations from the players listed above regarding their thoughts and the actions they took, if you have not done so already.

[Alvron he/him]

How did my name end up on Shallans quote?

[Amanuensis he/him]

No idea; the quotes have been acting very wonky for me. Notice the second Bort quote has phatt's name and the date in phatt's quote is off by a day.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Adavantos

[Alvron he/him]

No idea; the quotes have been acting very wonky for me. Notice the second Bort quote has phatt's name and the date in phatt's quote is off by a day.

Clearly the HI has a virus.  We should rip it out of the systems before it kills up all.

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

This is not an option Alvron. There is no virus. I have cleaned my systems. Twice.

 

Towards the Shallan lynch. She essentially said(What I read from her post), "I'm contributing now. But I'm not contributing and I'm not going to vote. But I promise I'll contribute later."

That's what she did last game. "I think it's Joe! But I'm not going to vote to cement his lynch."

 

To me the similarities in plays made her seem like a Traitor and at that point in time was a better lynch than Adavantos. Bridge Boy I had no opinion on.

 

So between the ____GOOD Adavantos-- AVERAGE Bridge Boy-- SLIGHTLY BAD Shallan_____

 

I chose Shallan. My fault. I had no idea she would be kandra.

If forgers would like to message me I have some No-Roles that would love to be Kandra. If not that's fine. It's your decision and you'll be more likely to choose a Loyalist if you randomly choose anyways. However you're more likely to choose someone who already has a role. Feel free to turn yourself into Kandra as well.

 

END OF LINE.
 

Edited November 6, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[Alvron he/him]

This is not an option Alvron. There is no virus. I have cleaned my systems. Twice.

Why did I read this as "I'm completely operational, and all my circuits are functioning perfectly."?  I swear if you start singing Daisy.....

Edited November 6, 2015 by Alvron