Long Game 15: ...The Shards Themselves...

[Elbereth she/her]

That's certainly possible, but I feel that it is most likely that she is either a Surgebinder as I have suggested or a Voidbringer, as she has implied in PMs. A kandra could scan her role, I suppose, but I don't think it's likely that it would be particularly useful to anyone except herself.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Since we know Wilson is a traitor, I would propose to not lynch her or kill her yet. Obviously we have to eventually, in order to win the game, but we can treat her like we would a converted HI for now. Just ignore her until later in the game. This means we can lynch someone else for now (provoking more discussion), continue to kill inactives with the Mistborn, and leave her alone until we've killed some more traitors. So I will not place a vote on her for now.

 

I agree about trying to provoke more discussion, however, I still think it would be a better idea to lynch her now, but instead of everyone laying on the votes at the start of cycle, instead use their votes to poke other players and gain further information, and at the end of the cycle put the votes back on Wilson.  The problem is at the moment people can just throw a vote on Wilson and leave it at that, but that commonly stunts all discussion cause why would you talk suspicions if you've already got a confirmation? 

But I don't think lynching her now will be necessarily be a big problem for discussion because we have already had multiple people point out other facts that have been discovered because of Wilson's reveal, such as the soft confirms and that Wilson appeared to draw attention away from BB. I think it's still worth lynching her ASAP since she's no doubt the kind of player who would be a prominent part of the eliminator doc discussion. So while lynching her now might not be as beneficial for crew discussion, it would probably help stunt the traitors discussion. It is a similar reason as to why they probably killed off Kas. As Arraenae brought up, Kas was a talkative/contributive/experienced player so was a prime target for eliminators, because they would want to stunt crew discussion. So I think if anything, that's a good reason to get rid of Wilson now and not later, because she too would be a talkative/contributive/experienced player for them.

So I can see where you are coming from by proposing to not lynch her immediately, but I personally think it is in our best interests to lynch her ASAP.

Does that make sense?

 

 

Quick Links:

 

Day 1

Night 1

Day 2

Night 2

 

 

 

Edit: Grammar 

Edited November 13, 2015 by Burnt Spaghetti

[Amanuensis he/him]

I don't necessarily think that we need to take our votes off of Wilson to poke at other people; instead, this is what I suggest: every player posts who they think the Kandra should scan tonight in Orange and who the Mistborn should attack in Purple. I am a believer in democracy and I think that if we implement this practice into this game we will be able to perpetuate discussion even with the lynch already decided. Keep in mind that like the lynch each vote should be accompanied by at least a single sentence explaining why you think that person warrants to be scanned or killed. These are my votes.

 

I vote that the Kandra scan Bridge Boy so that I can have a peace of mind that Wilson was not trying to get him off the chopping block and if proven innocent I can begin to examine those who called for his death. Depending on the outcome of that scan (which I strongly suspect will end up Innocent) I will be suggesting that Elkanah be scanned next (unless new, more solid suspicions arise).

 

I vote that the Mistborn kills No One as especially after the death of our Loyalist Forger I am convinced that blindly attacking people does far more harm than it does good. I think it is best for us to wait until the 5th Cycle before lurkers begin to be targeted as that should provide plenty of time for those who have not participated much so far to become more involved in the game or at least explain themselves. 

 

Kandra Vote Tally

(1) Bridge Boy: Adavantos (1)

 

Mistborn Vote Tally

(1) No One: Adavantos (1)

 

 

 

EDITED TO ADD MORE EXPLANATION

Edited November 13, 2015 by Adavantos

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I disagree that it's 'blindly attacking people' - if we treat it exactly the same as a lynch, we stand to gain all the same information as we would during a lynch, with the same drawbacks - and you don't have people saying in the middle of a game that they are opposed to lynches because it's blindly attacking people.

I nominate Phatt for the mistborn kill. Of course a vote could be placed on her by anyone, and have it develop into a bandwagon, but 1) you have a large motivation as a traitor to kill her to give you freedom to operate, 2) Wilson also voted on her, innocuously and apparently on a whim later on - indicating that there was a concerted effort to get her killed and 3) I discussed this with Wilson, who said that yes it was a very plausible thing for her to do as a Traitor; in the context of our conversation, it is my reading that she was trying to clear suspicion once she was found to be a traitor.

As for scanning, has anyone yet actually scanned Adavantos? We should remember Wyrm's control of the thread as an eliminator in QF7, and that Adavantos is a prolific poster even when evil. I certainly would feel safer were there a confirmation on him.

The distinction is that you are collecting information, and then using your information to direct mistborn as to the correct targets - and with the disparity in information, they are unlikely to feel comfortable disagreeing with your order.

There is a distinction between killing inactives with a mistborn and a lynch - a lynch serves as an opportunity for them to engage in discussion, and allows the contribution of others. Many people are legitimately busy at the moment, and to grant yourself the power of deciding to kill them can certainly be likened to being a mayor.

Now, unfortunately Kas is dead. That means I shall have to carry on the struggle in his place!

Practise PM safety!

Not only does it prevent valuable information leaking out to the eliminators, it helps keep the game enjoyable for all, by preventing a concentration of information in a controlling authority.

[Amanuensis he/him]

The distinction is that you are collecting information, and then using your information to direct mistborn as to the correct targets - and with the disparity in information, they are unlikely to feel comfortable disagreeing with your order.

There is a distinction between killing inactives with a mistborn and a lynch - a lynch serves as an opportunity for them to engage in discussion, and allows the contribution of others. Many people are legitimately busy at the moment, and to grant yourself the power of deciding to kill them can certainly be likened to being a mayor.

 

As I have previously stated, besides asking Creccio to kill a specific player who at the time I was highly suspicious of (and still am), I have not ordered any Mistborn to do anything except to kill Wilson last night after Alvron approached me about her scanning evil. Given the nature of the Mistborn's reveal to me I have trusted them 100% from the beginning, especially now that they have proven themselves by attacking polking after our discussion of inactive players. Obviously said player cannot come to my defense on this without endangering themselves, but besides confronting you when I had reason to believe you were a Traitor Feruchemist or when I bribed Mail's role from STINK, I have not made an effort to obtain any information. All other roles I have learned have been offered to me of their own free will for one reason or another.

 

I have been especially careful not to turn this into a Mayor game because I personally find them very distasteful. This is the exact reason I have proposed that we decide as a group who gets scanned by the Kandra and who gets killed by the Mistborn, as it allows everyone to voice their opinions and gives people the opportunity to defend themselves just as much as they could for a lynch. Personally I can't help but feel that you're intentionally twisting any of the things I've said or done to cast doubt on me, but that is neither here nor there. I understand why you are doing it as I would be doing it too in your shoes, because in my opinion every player's actions need to be examined at every angle possible, but I think you're exaggerating the amount of information and control I have.

 

That being said, I welcome criticism and character statements from anyone and everyone. If you think I have been behaving in a way that is unfair or unfun for the game, please say so and point out what exactly I did so I can cease and desist. I am of the mindset that I have only done what every other player would do if put in the position I was; utilize what assets and information I have for the good of the crew as a whole.

 

EDITED FOR MORE INFO

 

Also I ask that for this round, at least ten players total keep their vote on Wilson. I have received 3 Loyalist Feruchemist claims and so far I know the identities of each person who manipulated the votes so far. Since I have never seen more than one used at once I have asked that the three claimed Feruchemists change a single vote to a unique, pre-specified target, that way I can prove if one of them is lying and if so question them further. Before the third Feruchemist revealed I was willing to believe that the crew received two and the traitors none, so what that means to me is either one of them is evil or there is a fourth traitor Feruchemist hiding out here, which until now I have no reason to believe. It is far more likely that one of them is lying and if not one of them is evil. By having ten votes on Wilson they will be able to use their ability without affecting the lynch.

 

Lynch Vote Tally

(11) Wilson: Kipper (1), Adavantos (1), Alvron (1), Bridge Boy (1), Ripple (1), Elkanah (1), Paranoid King (1), Phattmer (1), Lopen (1), Arraenae (1), Steph (1),

Kandra Vote Tally

(1) Bridge Boy: Adavantos (1)

(1) Adavantos: Orlok (1)

Mistborn Vote Tally

(1) No One: Adavantos (1)

(1) Phattmer: Orlok (1)

Edited November 13, 2015 by Adavantos

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Adavantos, I'm sure you're not consciously doing it, but there seems to be a contradiction between your actions and words; you claim not to be a mayor, and then proscribe that 10 votes need to be on Wilson because 3 people are changing votes to targets you asked them to to prove their abilities to you...

Do you have any response to the criticism of beginning a mistborn lynch and then not proposing a target? The benefits and drawbacks of a voted kill are exactly the same as a lynch - and we don't have calls for no lynch in case it hits a valuable role.

Edit: before I forget, Wilson

Edited November 13, 2015 by Orlok

[Amanuensis he/him]

It's not being a mayor, Orlok, it's being a proactive player. If we don't make an effort to prove if someone is lying about something as simple as a role what's to keep the traitors from getting away with lying about anything? I was given a lead and I am pursuing it, just as anyone else should if provided with their own. What would you do if three players claimed to be the same role? Especially when one of them has been in the lime light consistently and could very well be evil?

 

And as I've stated before, I believe in democracy. Whether or not we can trust each other we still need to make decisions as a whole, not as individuals. Just because I don't think the Mistborn killing a player until proven guilty is a good idea doesn't mean everyone else does. I want people to voice their opinions and for decisions to be made based on a majority vote, not just because I have information that others don't.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Adavantos

[Elithanathile he/him]

Emporor Palpatine. All I'm gonna say.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I am no Sith Lord :[

[Kipper]

I would say Adavantos for the Kandra Scan.

Orlok

For the Mistborn kill, I do not care. Someone inactive.

[little wilson she/her]

Lynch Vote Tally

(11) Wilson: Kipper (1), Adavantos (1), Alvron (1), Bridge Boy (1), Ripple (1), Elkanah (1), Paranoid King (1), Phattmer (1), Lopen (1), Arraenae (1), Steph (1),

 

 

Ooooh, can I be the most hated SE player ever? Most lynch-votes? Pretty please? Right now, the person who holds that distinction is Winter, with 17 votes in LG12. We have 27 players left in this game. I have 12 votes currently. Let's make this happen. Let's make my dream come true!

 

Oh, also, since Ada is willing to make this about democracy, I'll join in too. Ada. There's definitely something funky going on there. I think he needs to die.... Alvron. Because why not? He and I could totally be evil together. It wouldn't wreck game balance at all. Nope. 

 

Troll in the dungeons! Thought you should know.... : P

[Amanuensis he/him]

Lynch Vote Tally

(12) Wilson: Kipper (1), Adavantos (1), Alvron (1), Bridge Boy (1), Ripple (1), Elkanah (1), Paranoid King (1), Phattmer (1), Lopen (1), Arraenae (1), Steph (1), Orlok (1)

 

Kandra Vote Tally

(1) Bridge Boy: Adavantos (1)

(2) Adavantos: Orlok (1), Kipper (1)

(1) Alvron: little wilson (1),

 

Mistborn Vote Tally

(1) No One: Adavantos (1)

(1) Phattmer: Orlok (1)

(1) Adavantos: little wilson (1)

 

 

At this point it's obvious she's trying to play mind games with us, if not me in particular given my reservations about Alvron. So just because she voted for me to be killed and Alvron to be scanned doesn't mean neither of us are evil. It also doesn't mean that either of us are good. I do think that Alvron is worth getting scanned sooner rather than later, as I see no reason why having both him and Wilson on the traitor team together is unbalanced; especially in a game with a role that can scan player's alignments, as they were both very likely to be scanned early on anyway.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Adavantos

[STINK he/him]

Not much to do really, is there?

 

*lies down and has a nap* 

[Kasimir he/him]

Not much to do really, is there?

 

*lies down and has a nap*

*ghostly whisper*

You know...you could always RP...

[Elbereth she/her]

While I still think we shouldn't lynch Wilson, I'm okay with this. I will be back to place votes later, but I do have one question.

Why in the name of Harmony are we counting Wilson's vote? We are basically certain she's a traitor. I agree with the principles of democracy, but counting her vote does not seem wise. Just saying.

Edited because I missed the s in "she".

Edited November 13, 2015 by Elbereth

[STINK he/him]

* John wakes up from his nap, which was rudely interrupted *

 

What was that? Are there ghosts on this ship? Probably not, I mean ghosts don't even exist! But this is space, and space things could be different, so does that mean there are space ghosts? You know what, I'm gonna go find out what direction toilets flow in space.

 

John went to the toilet, and felt satisfied. 

 

He then went back to sleep.

[Amanuensis he/him]

While I still think we shouldn't lynch Wilson, I'm okay with this. I will be back to place votes later, but I do have one question.

Why in the name of Harmony are we counting Wilson's vote? We are basically certain he's a traitor. I agree with the principles of democracy, but counting her vote does not seem wise. Just saying.

 

I'm counting her vote in the tally because it's something worth analyzing. She had some kind of ulterior motive when doing it, whether it be to cast suspicion on two loyalists or use reverse psychology to make everyone think those two players are harmless. Personally I am still leaning towards Alvron being a traitor as well, but we won't know that for sure until he is scanned, if there even is another Kandra out there. Besides, traitor or not, is it really democracy if we exclude a person's ability to vote, evil or not?

Edited November 13, 2015 by Adavantos

[Hellscythe he/him]

Apparently Wilson is bad. I'm a bit behind due to exams on Fridays. Like why do they all think Friday is the best day for an exam? ALLLL OOFFFF THEMMMM. In light of this I'm voting for Kaid. For all three votes. Kandra, Mistborn, and Lynch.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Hellscythe

[phattemer]

I would say that, if we still have a Loyal Kandra(probably), they should scan either Adavantos or Orlok. I'd like to know if either the person with a lot of info (why do you have all that anyway?) or the person going after the person with a lot of info, is evil.

For the Mistborn kill: No one

Unless you, as the Mistborn, have a heavy suspicion on someone, then you probably shouldn't just take a shot in the dark. (misspelled "shot" at first, and though my error would be bad as well, I did and do mean death)

Of course, you could just kill me. Probably not a good idea, since I think my role is fairly important to the Loyalists. (This makes me feel oddly British)

Also, Orlok, why are you convinced I'm evil?

[Clanky he/him]

Lynch: Wilson

 

Scan: Adavantos

 

Kill with magic flying metal: Abstain

 

With Wilson outed as a traitor I think it is very unlikely Adavantos is a traitor but with all the knowledge and influence he is gaining I won't feel safe until it is 100% guaranteed.

 

I don't have any concrete suspicions that I feel deserving of death right now but I could change my mind later especially since we also have the whole night cycle and PMs to discus before the Mistborn does their thing. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by Clanky

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I'm short on time, but I do think that the Mistborn should go after a completely inactive player, especially somebody who isn't playing their first game and that hasn't been in PMs.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Well Araris, after the death of polking there are only three players that have not yet posted in thread; Zed (this is his first game), Dowanx (has been active in PMs) and Honey Badger (neither new nor active in PMs), so that really only leaves Honey. However he has been inactive in MR9 as well so its possible that he's got real life things going on, which makes me apprehensive about advocating his execution before he has the chance to participate. However if you think that's best than I can chalk you up for a vote against him. Just let me know.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Phatt, I suspect you are evil because I don't think that a day 1 Evil!Wilson is going to vote without an ulterior motive, and adding you as a player to the eliminator doc, through allowing you access you would otherwise not have due to the risk of a sibling is worth orchestrating a seemingly innocuous bandwagon.

Wilson also tried to play a mind-game with me as to the hypothetical situation of her being evil it being something she would do, and from the context of that I came down on it being a dissuasion tactic.

I am in no way as certain of your guilt as I was of Wilson's, but you are to me the most suspicious individual.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Yeah, I say go ahead. I would feel a little bad, but by this point with Honey being involved in two games it would probably be really hard to catch up in either one. And there is still the possibility of shotting an eliminator, and us learning a bit more about role distribution as well.

[Kaid he/him]

Looks like Wilson is guilty then, and seeing the mass amounts of votes on her, it would be pointless to vote for anyone else, so here it is: Wilson. Now that that's out of the way, Lets scan Adavantos. Just because I had my suspicions in the early game, I'd like to know whether or not to trust him. I don't quite think hes as guilty as I first suspected but I'd like to be sure.

 

Also, Hellscythe, any reason behind voting for me? For all three no less? I could see wanting me to be scanned but why have the mistborn kill me in the night? I'm not too worried about dying in the daytime.

 

Edit: I just mean for this day cycle because it looks like Wilson is kill.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Kaid