Long Game 15: ...The Shards Themselves...

[STINK he/him]

See the thing is you guys are suggesting Ada for the Kandra scan, but if Ada is evil do we then get the Kandra to reveal themselves publicly just for that? The Kandra should've already scanned Ada tbh, so I don't think we need to worry about that as much, which is why ultimately this whole voting thing is pretty pointless, as we don't know what the Kandra has already done / who they have contacted / if they revealed to someone and need to scan that someone. We also have no assurance about this whole Mistborn thing, as it is in the hands of a single player that can choose to ignore what the Town is suggesting, but also who's to say that Ada doesn't tell the Mistborn who to kill in the night while voting for a different person in the day? It just doesn't really work.

[Kaid he/him]

Well, it gives everyone an idea of what we'd like to happen, regardless of what actually happens. It could possibly help root out the evil but maybe not.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Stink, if Adavantos is evil, it seems certainly worth a kandra revealing themselves for it - the damage evil!Adavantos could do is absolutely extraordinary.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Orlok

[Arrae]

I'd like to have the Kandra scan Adavantos. If he's loyal, then he's provoking discussion and a useful hub of information that we know we can trust. If he isn't, then we know who to lynch.

 

I'm actually suspicious that the traitors haven't tried to kill Adavantos yet. We have Kasimir, an experienced player who was contributing a lot, dead, but Adavantos, an experienced player who is contributing a lot, is still very much alive.  The problem is that I don't want to lynch him to find out if he is or isn't loyal.

 

If Adavantos is loyal, I think Orlok should be scanned next. He's been very openly critical, and if he is a Traitor that knows that Adavantos is Loyal, his criticism could be an attempt to make us focus on a helpful Loyalist rather than a Traitor.

 

 

In light of this I'm voting for Kaid. For all three votes. Kandra, Mistborn, and Lynch.

Hellscythe, whyare you suspicious of Kaid? If you have information about him, you should share it with us.

 

 

 

We also have no assurance about this whole Mistborn thing, as it is in the hands of a single player that can choose to ignore what the Town is suggesting, but also who's to say that Ada doesn't tell the Mistborn who to kill in the night while voting for a different person in the day?

STINK, if the Mistborn ignores what the town suggests, we know that Mistborn voting is useless and we can give up on it. We also will know that Adavantos doesn't have as much control over the Mistborn that he claims, because they ignored his suggestion of a democratic vote.

 

Besides, since Wilson is getting lynched no matter what, poke votes don't have that much of an impact anymore. Mistborn votes are our new poke votes.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Arraenae, I'm very happy to submit to a scan - my opposition to Adavantos isn't on the grounds that I necessarily think him suspicious (although I'm keeping an open mind) - more that I really dislike the idea of a game run by a mayor.

[STINK he/him]

Traitors probably didn't go for Ada because he openly said to go for him, which basically means 'I have prot'

[Hellscythe he/him]

The person who died last night (Kas) was suspicious of Kaid. In fact I believe he was the only one ever suspicious of Kaid.

 

 

Disassociation with Wilson. This is my more minor point against Kaid but adds a little. I don't think either Kaid nor Wilson ever said eachother's names or talked to eachother whatsoever up until Kaid just recently voted for Wilson.

 

 

 

Adavantos, idk what it is man. You could very well be innocent but idk, its something. I don't like when people say kill me as well. I have no firm suspicions on anyone yet, I was just adding that you said you'd like to be killed haha. Just adding to the convo 

 

Just adding to the convo  

It seems that most if not all of your posts are "just adding to the convo" without actually trying to figure out who the traitors are. Could just be your playstyle, but it could also be that you don't need to find the traitors because you already know who they are.

 

No offense to you or your posts it just seems Traitorous.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Hellscythe

[Kaid he/him]

Arraenae, I agree, I want to know why Hellscythe finds me suspicious. Considering I've had little to no interaction with him, I'm wondering what he has to be suspicious of.

 

Ninja'd: Ok Hellscythe, I can see your concerns and they are valid but I can tell you that I have no idea why Kas suspected me. Also, even if I was a traitor, I wouldn't kill someone just because they suspected me, especially if they then retracted their vote. I would need to get all of the traitors on board for that and I just don't see that happening for such a minor reason. That and I've been suspicious of Adavantos from the start. And that wasn't just me, its something I've been watching, trying to determine and I'm not the only one whos been suspicious. I'd be more than happy to find out hes loyal, and don't want him killed if he is. I know this may not change your opinion of me but there it is.

 

Also, I have been less active and I don't really know what to contribute which is why I haven't contributed as much. All my thoughts have been mirrored and I don't want to talk just for the sake of talking. This is my first game so I'm trying to find my tempo, my groove, my playstyle in this version of the game. Thanks for listening.

 

Also, on the topic of not associating with Wilson, I had nothing to say to her, nor her I. Theres a lot of dissassociation between a lot of players. 

 

when I said, just adding to the discussion, I felt I was pointing out that Adavantos did say he would be fine to go on the block for others who may have missed it when someone else said they didn't trust someone else because they volunteered to be killed. I felt that was something to add.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Kaid

[Alvron he/him]

See the thing is you guys are suggesting Ada for the Kandra scan, but if Ada is evil do we then get the Kandra to reveal themselves publicly just for that?

 

The Kandra should've already scanned Ada tbh, so I don't think we need to worry about that as much, which is why ultimately this whole voting thing is pretty pointless, as we don't know what the Kandra has already done / who they have contacted / if they revealed to someone and need to scan that someone.

 

We also have no assurance about this whole Mistborn thing, as it is in the hands of a single player that can choose to ignore what the Town is suggesting, but also who's to say that Ada doesn't tell the Mistborn who to kill in the night while voting for a different person in the day? It just doesn't really work.

No, Once the night starts I'll talk to the Kandra and we can set up some codewords they can use to tell us who they scanned and what the result is.

 

The Kandra scanned Wilson N1 and said they were going to scan Kas N2.  They revealed to me and as far as I know I'm the only one.  The thing I'm most concerned about is if the Kandra isn't a Kandra but an Eliminator trying to gain my trust.  Since they know who is and isn't a traitor then it would be easy to fake being a Kandra.  They 'sacrifice' Wilson, who knows she will be caught sooner rather than later, to show that they are who they claim they are and in doing so gain trust from the village who don't bother scanning the Kandra because having them kill off a highly experienced player wouldn't be expected.  It's the sort of thing I would expect from Wilson.

 

Nothing, but at same time what's to stop the Mistborn from just killing whoever they want to kill.  Ultimately it is up to the Mistborn who they target and all we can do is offer suggestions.

[queensteph she/her]

I also want to add my kandra scanning vote on Adavantos. 

Lots of people seem to trust him (Myself being one of them) and I'd really like to be certain that he's loyal. 

As for who the mistborn should attack, I really have no idea and wouldn't care if they didn't attack anyone at all unless of course they have reason to believe someone is an eliminator. 

I really hope that the kandra is loyal, and also hope that they actually are a kandra. It'd be bad news if we just kept getting fed false information.

[Elbereth she/her]

I'd like to have the Kandra scan Adavantos. If he's loyal, then he's provoking discussion and a useful hub of information that we know we can trust. If he isn't, then we know who to lynch.

I'm actually suspicious that the traitors haven't tried to kill Adavantos yet. We have Kasimir, an experienced player who was contributing a lot, dead, but Adavantos, an experienced player who is contributing a lot, is still very much alive. The problem is that I don't want to lynch him to find out if he is or isn't loyal.

Well, there have only been two traitor kills so far, and each "was an experienced player who was contributing a lot". So I don't know when you think they would have killed Adavantos. You're saying that Kas and Adavantos were equally fair choices for a kill, right? So maybe I'm not quite understanding you, but I don't know when you think they should have killed Adavantos.

Also, on the topic of who to scan. I personally do not think we should scan Adavantos. Everyone is "nearly certain" that he's good. That's a lot better than we have on pretty much anyone else. So I would suggest we use the scan on someone whose alignment is more suspect.

Also, I don't think Adavantos is a traitor, either, because of Kas' death. We know that Adavantos has had several roleclaims. If this is the case and Adavantos were a traitor, why would they have killed Kas, an univested crewmember, rather than someone they knew to be more important? Kas' reputation as an experienced player doesn't hold up when balanced against known dangers, to my mind.

I also want to point out that if Adavantos isn't a traitor, all of the traitors would be very happy with him being scanned, so it's very possible that at least one of the people that voted for him is a traitor, if not more.

So going on that, I want to scan Kaid. I think Hellscythe's reasoning is sound, and I don't have any other suspects. And he also voted for Adavantos.

So, are my points sound?

Edited for color. Edited again for the correct color because Queensteph is smart and I am occasionally an idiot.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Elbereth

[queensteph she/her]

Are you saying you want to scan Kaid, or do you mean you want the mistborn to target him? (just checking, since purple is the color Adavantos said was for the mistborn targets)

 

Also, I don't really see how scanning Adavantos is that different then if Kaid is loyal since either way the eliminators will be glad we didn't find one of them. I do kind of think Ada has a higher chance of being loyal, but I think it'd be good for us to know once and for all that we can (or can't) fully trust him, which is why I have my vote for scanning Ada.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I'm actually suspicious that the traitors haven't tried to kill Adavantos yet. We have Kasimir, an experienced player who was contributing a lot, dead, but Adavantos, an experienced player who is contributing a lot, is still very much alive.  The problem is that I don't want to lynch him to find out if he is or isn't loyal.

 

I definitely wouldn't classify myself as experienced. So far there have been only two games that I have lasted longer than three cycles; my first - in which I was absolutely lost because I was brand new and I got sent on a mission to Zimbabwe before the halfway mark, leaving me inactive until I was eventually lynched - and the QF that just passed where I was evil and survived until the end. Personally I don't count LG14 or MR9 because in both cases I was killed extremely early and before I could do anything of significance. So really, in terms of experience I only have one games worth, though I guess I did learn quite a bit simply observing the others from the dead docs.

 

Anyway, the reason I haven't died yet is either because one of the few players I trusted with my role are actually evil or because the Traitors figured out what I was trying to accomplish since Day 1. Given that we now know Wilson is on their team I would not be surprised if she was the one that figured it out.

 

Also, on the topic of who to scan. I personally do not think we should scan Adavantos. Everyone is "nearly certain" that he's good. That's a lot better than we have on pretty much anyone else. So I would suggest we use the scan on someone whose alignment is more suspect.

Also, I don't think Adavantos is a traitor, either, because of Kas' death. We know that Adavantos has had several roleclaims. If this is the case and Adavantos were a traitor, why would they have killed Kas, an univested crewmember, rather than someone they knew to be more important? Kas' reputation as an experienced player doesn't hold up when balanced against known dangers, to my mind.

I also want to point out that if Adavantos isn't a traitor, all of the traitors would be very happy with him being scanned, so it's very possible that at least one of the people that voted for him is a traitor, if not more.

 

I was wondering if anyone was going to bring either of these points up. I decided not to myself because the argument wouldn't mean anything coming from me, as people would likely only read it as me trying to avoid a scan because I am actually evil; I just don't agree with it because I know it's a waste of another 96 hours in which we could actually figure out if someone else is evil. But if it gives player's a peace of mind then I support it.

 

Personally I am very irritated that they killed Kas for two reasons: first, because this entire game he has been avoiding learning anything of use and thus was no threat to the traitors, and two, I was informed that he was being scanned last night which would have told me if I could share all my information with him like I wanted to - and almost did - before I was guaranteed an Elantrian's protection last night. I am of the mindset that in games like this there are no coincidences. I believe that either Alvron (or the Kandra who claimed to him) are lying, or that Alvron told someone other than me that Kas was being scanned and for that reason the Traitors decided to attack him as a confirmed Loyalist!Kas would actually be dangerous to the Traitors.

 

I also agree that it's very likely one of the people who called for me to be scanned is evil as well, though I don't think its Orlok due to how often he has publicly opposed me. I am more inclined to believe a Traitor would be among the player's who try to implicate me by less aggresive means.

 

EDITED FOR VOTE TALLIES

 

Lynch Vote Tally

(14) Wilson: Kipper (1), Adavantos (1), Alvron (1), Bridge Boy (1), Ripple (1), Elkanah (1), Paranoid King (1), Phattmer (1), Lopen (1), Arraenae (1), Steph (1), Orlok (1), Clanky (1), Kaid (1), 

(1) Kaid: Hellscythe (1),

 

Kandra Vote Tally

(1) Bridge Boy: Adavantos (1)

(6) Adavantos: Orlok (1), Kipper (1), Clanky (1), Kaid (1), Arraenae (1), Steph (1) 

(1) Alvron: little wilson (1),

(2) Kaid: Hellscythe (1), Elbereth (1), 

 

Mistborn Vote Tally

(3) No One: Adavantos (1), phattermer (1), Clanky (1)

(1) Phattmer: Orlok (1)

(1) Adavantos: little wilson (1)

(1) Kaid: Hellscythe (1),

(1) Honey Badger: Araris (1),

Edited November 14, 2015 by Adavantos

[Paranoid King he/him]

I don't think we should scan Adavantos, either. The impression I've been getting from him is very much a "villager" one. I say we scan Kaid, instead.

I guess if Wilson somehow hasn't died by night, the mistborn could kill her.

[STINK he/him]

Mistborn can go for whoever, they'll probably talk to Ada loads during the night anyway.

 

Kandra should've already scanned Alvron, and so will either not scan Ada or scan Ada, either way they'll have to tell Alvron so Alvron is basically a Kandra for the next few cycles, so I vote that the Kandra scans STINK

 

Kipper is obviously evil! 

[Amanuensis he/him]

Personally I do not think Kaid is worth a scan right now. All it does is tell us if he is good or evil. I would much prefer a player who has been more intimately involved in the game or at least has enough connections to other players that knowing their alignment would give us more leads to pursue, like the aforementioned Bridge Boy on the grounds that Wilson may have been trying to wrestle the lynch away from him.

 

EDIT: Also, unless another Kandra has scanned Alvron, he has not yet been checked. According to him they checked Wilson N1 and then went to check Kas N2. The only reason the Kandra approached him is because they believe Alvron and Wilson would not be put on a team together, which I am very apprehensive about.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Adavantos

[Paranoid King he/him]

That sounds reasonable enough. Taking my Kandravote off of Kaid and putting it on Bridge Boy

[Elithanathile he/him]

I don't know where the Kandravote came from, but I'm pretty sure that the Kandra decides who to scan, and the vote just gives them an idea of who people want them to scan. So I don't really see any point in voting, because the Kandra already has an idea of who they want to check, so everyone voting for the Kandra, I don't understand why. Just my confusion on the situation, feel free to disregard it and carry on.

[Paranoid King he/him]

The Kandra does what it wants to, sure, but the vote shows the Kandra what people are thinking. And it gives us information, despite that we already know who to lynch. The Kandravote and the Mistvote kept discussion alive after Wilson tried to kill it.

[Amanuensis he/him]

That's the exact point of it, Bridge Boy. Of course the Kandra and Mistborn are going to do whatever they decide is best, but this is another means to instigate discussion among the entire crew to see what people's opinions are when we already have a confirmed Traitor in the process of getting lynched. It is also more information that we have to analyze of one another, which is the bane of all Traitor's existence. Therefore it is more likely that the people who dismiss it (like yourself and Stink) or ignore it out right (the players who have not made their opinions known) are Traitors. Right now you are exhibiting several red flags for me.

 

Given the impression you left on me in QF10 when I was evil and you were good, I expect a lot better from you; I personally do not buy the "I was an idiot" speech, let alone that you don't see why these votes are helpful to the crew.

 

 

EDIT: Ninja'd by PK

 

EDIT2: To the three Feruchemists, in order to ensure that none of you attempt to manipulate the same vote, here are the votes I ask for you to manipulate:

1. Feruchemist 1, please change Kipper's vote to your designated target.
2. Feruchemist 2, please change Clanky's vote to your designated target.
3. Feruchemist 3, please change Kaid's vote to your designated target.

In doing this the entire crew will be able to see that we have at least three Feruchemists, and with this information revealed we can begin discussing the implications of said information. If one or more of you fails to do this, it goes without saying that I will become highly suspicious of you.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Adavantos

[Elithanathile he/him]

Okay, so that we can gain more information through it. I get it. I just didn't get where it came from, and what exactly the point was, but if it's to generate discussion, then Adavantos. I feel that he has more power than is good for him, and we certainly don't want him to be evil. (cough cough Palpatine cough)

[Amanuensis he/him]

I really do hope I'm right about you BB I'm trying to keep an open mind but I'm very afraid I'm tunneling on you given that every post you make I can't help but feel more suspicious. Hopefully a Kandra finds out your alignment for me soon, because it's painfully distracting.

[Elithanathile he/him]

My apologies. I'm not trying to go after you specifically, I just can't let a Star Wars reference go that easily.

[Amanuensis he/him]

It's not that bit, it's how you've reacted - or in this case, your lack of reaction - in people asking for you to be scanned. Orlok and I welcomed it with open arms but you have just ignored it. Coupled with a Kandra vote against me, when I'm already vastly in the lead, it seems more like you're trying to avoid arguing against you being scanned while still making sure you aren't.

[Arrae]

 

 

I definitely wouldn't classify myself as experienced. So far there have been only two games that I have lasted longer than three cycles; my first - in which I was absolutely lost because I was brand new and I got sent on a mission to Zimbabwe before the halfway mark, leaving me inactive until I was eventually lynched - and the QF that just passed where I was evil and survived until the end. Personally I don't count LG14 or MR9 because in both cases I was killed extremely early and before I could do anything of significance. So really, in terms of experience I only have one games worth, though I guess I did learn quite a bit simply observing the others from the dead docs.

I guess I've been equating length of posts and confidence with experience, which probably isn't the best way to measure experience.  Can somebody give me a list of who is experienced or not so I don't have to judge by hearsay and posts?