*Shadows of Self Spoilers* Anyone Else Think Harmony is Messed up?

[Kaymyth she/her]

We don't know if there is a war coming. But we do know that another group survived the Catecendre (sp?) from the southern pole. In the original trilogy life can only be found on the poles of the planet and there were two separate groups. We know absolutely nothing about the southern group except that they don't really have allomancers but figured out how to use allomancy in machines.

The war I referred too was just a theory that I have that when they finally come into contact there will be a war between them. 

 

The Lord Ruler's empire wasn't actually at the geographical north pole.  If it had been, we would have had some really weird day/night cycles in the original trilogy.  But that's why he raised the ashmounts - to give people some protection from the sun at reasonable latitudes.

 

The (extremely common) confusion comes about because the Well of Ascension was the magnetic north pole, LTR didn't realize that moving the Well would drag magnetic north with it.

[Stormgate he/him]

The Lord Ruler's empire wasn't actually at the geographical north pole.  If it had been, we would have had some really weird day/night cycles in the original trilogy.  But that's why he raised the ashmounts - to give people some protection from the sun at reasonable latitudes.

 

The (extremely common) confusion comes about because the Well of Ascension was the magnetic north pole, LTR didn't realize that moving the Well would drag magnetic north with it.

Makes you wonder what Santa's done with the power of the Shardpool at our North Pole. Also, He Who Will Not Read Mistborn, Sanderson has a few sci-if short stories, and you might also be interested in Legion. Just thought you'd want to know.

[mattig89ch he/him]

I have to say, I like that title.  Fear my rufusals, muahahaha.

 

I just finished Fey: A Vince Lombard novel, and...well...I'm not sure what to read next.  I guess I'll check those scifi books out, and see whats there.

 

Also, the ability to visit all the houses on the planet in one night and not be seen makes me think speed bubble.

 

Finally, does anyone think Wax will, willingly help out Harmony in the next book?  I'm (personally) thinking Harmony will have to pull a Queen Mab, and create a situation that will force Wax to act.  Though, this might dig him a deeper hole with Wax then not.

[Charononus]

I have to say, I like that title.  Fear my rufusals, muahahaha.

 

I just finished Fey: A Vince Lombard novel, and...well...I'm not sure what to read next.  I guess I'll check those scifi books out, and see whats there.

 

Also, the ability to visit all the houses on the planet in one night and not be seen makes me think speed bubble.

 

Finally, does anyone think Wax will, willingly help out Harmony in the next book?  I'm (personally) thinking Harmony will have to pull a Queen Mab, and create a situation that will force Wax to act.  Though, this might dig him a deeper hole with Wax then not.

Personal opinion here.  Wax will probably do it anyway.  He'll hate Harmony,  but can you really see Wax letting someone get hurt just to spite Harmony?  I don't think his own morals will allow it.

[Kaymyth she/her]

Makes you wonder what Santa's done with the power of the Shardpool at our North Pole.

 

I could totally be on board with this Shard theory.  The Shard of Generosity, perhaps?

[Landis963 he/him]

I could totally be on board with this Shard theory.  The Shard of Generosity, perhaps?

 

I think that one's on Nalthis.  No, Santa's Shard would probably be Kindness, or something of the sort.  

 

As for the north pole/south pole thing, that requires a lot of 1st trilogy backstory.  You've mentioned, mattig, that you don't particularly care about being spoiled, so here goes:  The Lord Ruler (the, um, ruler of the Final Empire) took up Ruin's power temporarily to counteract the "Deepness," an effect where the mists of Scadrial were thick enough to block the sun (an early gambit of Ruin's, it must be said).  In so doing, however, he messed up the world royally.  As a part of this royal screw-up, he moved Scadrial closer to its sun (to burn away the mists, you see).  This had all sorts of effects, up to including "OMG why is my everything on fire?!"  So naturally, he needed something to block the sun, hence ashmounts, great, constantly smoking volcanos designed to block the majority of the sun's rays.  Therefore, he needed something to break down the ash so that it wouldn't choke everything, so he created microorganisms to take care of that, and he needed plants that could survive in the red light caused by the now too-close sun, so he altered those, and he needed the people to not die of starvation, so he altered them so they could eat the altered plants and derive nutrition from them.  This population lived close to magnetic north, which was at the Shardpool where Ruin was imprisoned, but he shifted everything further south for purposes of misdirection (didn't trust anyone else to not storm up Ruin's continued incarceration, after all).  However, after his alterations to the people who would become the nobles, skaa, and Terris, he needed a control group, just in case he'd messed something up with the people that he wouldn't be able to fix before the population got too low.  Hence, the people at the south pole, who were left unaltered.  

[mattig89ch he/him]

Interesting, thanks for that landis.

 

And we think the people of elendel are going to go to war with these...southoners?

[Left he/him]

Interesting, thanks for that landis.

And we think the people of elendel are going to go to war with these...southoners?

It's a possibility. I personally find the idea kinda melodramatic and cliche, "ohhhh my gosh, there's aliens! War is obviously the solution!"

I'm personally expecting some tension and in the far future some terrorism, but not a full out war. The third era sounds like it'll be about intelligence agencies versus terrorists, maybe each other, and the fourth era is space opera. Neither fit the bill for a world war level conflict.

[Landis963 he/him]

Interesting, thanks for that landis.

And we think the people of elendel are going to go to war with these...southoners?

Pft. They're not going to go to war with the southerners. Not at first. I suspect that eventually, the southerners will declare war on them, and they will be woefully underprepared.

[Kaymyth she/her]

It's a possibility. I personally find the idea kinda melodramatic and cliche, "ohhhh my gosh, there's aliens! War is obviously the solution!"

I'm personally expecting some tension and in the far future some terrorism, but not a full out war. The third era sounds like it'll be about intelligence agencies versus terrorists, maybe each other, and the fourth era is space opera. Neither fit the bill for a world war level conflict.

 

I think it's a lot more likely that the Southerners are going to get a look at the Basin and all of its fertile resources and say, "Um, yeah, we want that."  People wanting what other people have is often the real root cause of war.

[Stormgate he/him]

It's a Law of Writing: if there is a mysterious group of people with advanced technology, there will be conflict. Although, they may eventually make roads over the ocean to the South.

[TwelfthOfSnackTime he/him]

I figure there will be a short brutal war followed by a long drawn out cold war. Each group trying to get an advantage over the other. Thus bringing about a surge in technological growth that will eventually lead to space travel. 

[mattig89ch he/him]

Allomancy in space, now that would be interesting.

 

also, are we sure there will be some sort of conflict between the northerners and southoners?  Or is that just something thats been hinted at.

[Landis963 he/him]

Allomancy in space, now that would be interesting.

also, are we sure there will be some sort of conflict between the northerners and southoners? Or is that just something thats been hinted at.

Honestly, there's no real hints beyond "hey, didn't we have a world war or two when we were their age?"

[Kaymyth she/her]

Allomancy in space, now that would be interesting.

 

also, are we sure there will be some sort of conflict between the northerners and southoners?  Or is that just something thats been hinted at.

 

Allomancy in space is part of his master plan.

[DreamEternal]

Allomancy in space is part of his master plan.

Again, that is just a theory. Skaa(I think..?) calls his version Star Trell.

EDIT: and You Who Refuses to Read Mistborn, you should at least try the Stormlight Archive. It is fantasy, but the world is more alien than most Sci-Fi I know of.

Edited November 25, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Kaymyth she/her]

Again, that is just a theory. Skaa(I think..?) calls his version Star Trell.

 

I actually meant Brandon's master plan, not Trell's. 

[DreamEternal]

I actually meant Brandon's master plan, not Trell's.

Actualy, I thought you meant it was Harmony's plan...

[Pattern he/him]

You mentioned people left at the south pole by the Lord Ruler.

Later though, Sazed/Harmony put surviving people into caverns and moved
them to the later city of Elendel when he redesigned Scadrial,
changing orbit and topography of Scadrial according to information
obtained from his copperminds.

[Weltall]

The southern peoples are a distinct group. We have several WoB on the topic confirming it and Harmony mentions them as a separate group in the present tense when he's berating Wax (and himself) for the failure of the Elendel Basin population to advance as fast as he thought they should.

[Pattern he/him]

Having read "The Bands of Mourning" now, that question is answered. Obviously I gave Sazed too much credit in repairing Scadrial at the end of Era 1. Seems he didn't know about the people in the south at that time at all.

Spoiler

Otherwise he wouldn't have brought them hardship and death. Considering that his copperminds contained knowledge from Terris people, who were separated from the then paradisic south, it's not really that surprising...

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Pattern

[Pathfinder]

Having read "The Bands of Mourning" now, that question is answered. Obviously I gave Sazed too much credit in repairing Scadrial at the end of Era 1. Seems he didn't know about the people in the south at that time at all. Otherwise he wouldn't have brought them hardship and death. Considering that his copperminds contained knowledge from Terris people, who were separated from the then paradisic south, it's not really that surprising...

 

Which brings us to the next question: Who is the guy helping the people in the South? My guess: Kelsier in some form

This is shadows of self forum, and those are pretty big spoilers for Bands of Mourning. Not sure if the spoiler ban is still in effect or not, but at least use spoiler tages. 

[Kaymyth she/her]

It is still in effect, and they're not even allowed in spoiler tags right now outside the subforum.

[NovaSeeker he/him]

Hello all! New here, first post.

 

 

Just finished Shadows of Self a few days ago. And man, yes, I am seriously disappointed with Sazed. I'm glad I was reading at home, so no one saw me bawling as Lessie died. Again.

 

I can only guess that as Harmony, Sazed is forced to make compromises, because of what Melaan said about Harmony putting the pain where it can be borne. I was hopeful that Harmony would be a true melding of Ruin and Preservation and become something else entirely, but it seems like Sazed is forced to Ruin things and Preserve things on a semi-equal basis.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that Sazed assumed direct control of Lessie when she first died in Alloy of Law's prologue. Here's why:

 

Wax had the shot lined up perfectly on Bloody Tan, and only at the last second, she jerked to the side. When it first happened, I assumed Bloody Tan was an Atium misting and knew exactly what was coming, but then he got shot in the head right after so I thought that was that. (And only later in reading the book was it confirmed that all the Atium was gone)

 

I believe there's a line in Shadows of Self that explained why Paalm was so mad at Harmony. Melaan said that Harmony ordered her to do something, and when she wouldn't do it, then he directly controlled her and made her do it. Now at the end of the book, we know that Harmony wanted her to ensure Wax's return to Elendel, and we know that, as Wax's wife, she couldn't bring herself to make him so unhappy.

 

So when, exactly, did Harmony take control and force her to obey? When he bodily shoved her in the way of Wax's bullet, predetermined with atium-like foresight only Harmony had access to, ensuring that Wax saw "Lessie" die right in front of him. In this instance, Harmony wasn't even an impersonal cruel god, directing the whims of fate in obscure ways to bring misfortune. No, this time, it was intimately personal. It was as if Sazed was standing there and deliberately pushed Lessie into the bullet, just to break Wax and make him go back to the city.

 

So yes. Yes indeed. I do think Harmony is seriously messed up.

[Kaymyth she/her]

Hello all! New here, first post.

 

 

Just finished Shadows of Self a few days ago. And man, yes, I am seriously disappointed with Sazed. I'm glad I was reading at home, so no one saw me bawling as Lessie died. Again.

 

I can only guess that as Harmony, Sazed is forced to make compromises, because of what Melaan said about Harmony putting the pain where it can be borne. I was hopeful that Harmony would be a true melding of Ruin and Preservation and become something else entirely, but it seems like Sazed is forced to Ruin things and Preserve things on a semi-equal basis.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that Sazed assumed direct control of Lessie when she first died in Alloy of Law's prologue. Here's why:

 

Wax had the shot lined up perfectly on Bloody Tan, and only at the last second, she jerked to the side. When it first happened, I assumed Bloody Tan was an Atium misting and knew exactly what was coming, but then he got shot in the head right after so I thought that was that. (And only later in reading the book was it confirmed that all the Atium was gone)

 

I believe there's a line in Shadows of Self that explained why Paalm was so mad at Harmony. Melaan said that Harmony ordered her to do something, and when she wouldn't do it, then he directly controlled her and made her do it. Now at the end of the book, we know that Harmony wanted her to ensure Wax's return to Elendel, and we know that, as Wax's wife, she couldn't bring herself to make him so unhappy.

 

So when, exactly, did Harmony take control and force her to obey? When he bodily shoved her in the way of Wax's bullet, predetermined with atium-like foresight only Harmony had access to, ensuring that Wax saw "Lessie" die right in front of him. In this instance, Harmony wasn't even an impersonal cruel god, directing the whims of fate in obscure ways to bring misfortune. No, this time, it was intimately personal. It was as if Sazed was standing there and deliberately pushed Lessie into the bullet, just to break Wax and make him go back to the city.

 

So yes. Yes indeed. I do think Harmony is seriously messed up.

 

Actually, it's pretty explicitly stated in the book by TenSoon that Harmony did not take control of her.  He pressured her hard, yes, but he did not take her over.  It wasn't until she went full-on mass murderer that this became a viable option for Harmony.