Everyday life on Shardworlds - What I'd want to see in cosmere books

[Oversleep]

Well, I understand that the formula 'magic comes back' and 'teaching new user' are necessary for now, but I'd love to see how magic blends in with more 'normal' settings.
For SA, it would be not how new Surgebinders emerge, but how Orders worked together, the hierarchy and specific customs and rituals in Orders, how was it to be in Order... What were their traditions and how they'd train newbies instead of newbies having to figure everything out on their own, how hard was it to explain somebody how to use Surges
'Listen, now concentrate and imagine really hard that this direction is 'down' for you now... Okay, I understand it's not easy, try again... What do you mean it's stupid?!'
Did they have shifts, patrols, did they write reports and so on.

For Mistborn, the original trilogy may not be a good example for this, since Mistborn were practically assassins... But modern trilogy looks perfect for that! Imagine team sports for Metalborn (like quidditch or pro-bending from Avatar), allomantic SWAT teams to deal with rogue Metalborn , allomantic breakfast cereals, the rules for Metalborn in schools like against Pulsers burning cadmium to speed up boring classes, how would Soothers and Rioters be treated, would Ferrings be allowed to use their zincminds or copperminds on exams and so on.
How would airports prevent terrorist Brutes or Bloodmakers? Would they ban specific metalminds on-board? How would they prevent against Pewterarms sneaking in pewter in their cellphones or watches and so on?
Would there be some Civil War about registrating superheroes Metalborn?
Would there be some Pulser system for Sliders to catch up with their age?

Would somebody investigate Iron Compounding Based Perpetuum Mobile?

I can't think of anything for Nalthis, but for Sel I think we will get it back. Back, since Reod ruined everything, but now they would be right on track with research and stuff.

Your ideas?

Edited July 3, 2016 by Oversleep

[DreamEternal]

I won't spoil, but lets say that Shadows of Self touches some of these points briefily.

And on Nalthis, I am not sure what you want, since it is the shardworld where magic is the most commonplace of the ones we have seem.

Edited December 5, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Oversleep]

I won't spoil, but lets say that Shadows of Self touches some of these points briefily.

And on Nalthis, I am not sure what you want, since it is the shardworld where magic is the most commonplace of the ones we have seem.

I also don't know what I want for exactly this reason - all I can think of is some organisation of artists which temporarily lends their sum of Breaths to rocket one of them through some Heightenings to get better art.

The point of the topic is - everyday life on Shardworlds, I guess.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Oversleep

[Stormgate he/him]

Well, if times got tough, Skybreakers could work as basically police officers, Windrunners could work as bodyguards, the Knights with Regrowth could work as healers or farmers, Lightweavers as sketch artists and undercover agents for the police... I don't know enough about other Orders to come up with anything.

[Oversleep]

I just realised how useful Windrunners and Skybreakers would be if Roshar gets someday to space program.
 

Well, if times got tough, Skybreakers could work as basically police officers, Windrunners could work as bodyguards, the Knights with Regrowth could work as healers or farmers, Lightweavers as sketch artists and undercover agents for the police... I don't know enough about other Orders to come up with anything.

I think Skybreakers would be more of judges and lawyers with their "I will put the law before all else" and Windrunners would be police officers: police is about protecting the people, right?
Elsecallers would work as teleporters, I guess.

But that's not what I thought about - because action of books is set in the times of conflict and change, we rarely see what's life there like, when nothing plot-worthy happens. No Desolations, no Reod, no uprising in the court of gods, no wars and no end of the world.
On Scadrial in the First Era we got a nice look in TFE, but in WoA and HoA war is ravaging the land and end of the world is approaching...
In the Second Era I heard some Metalborn work as the law enforcers and there is some university...? Coinshots sometimes work as messengers...?

What I want to see addresed in Third Era is in the first post.

On Roshar, we won't ever get to see what life was like before Recreance...

On Sel, we got this whole Reod thing going on, but there is hope with the sequel.

On Nalthis (since magic is so common) it's what we've already seen.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Oversleep

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Here's a question for an old thread... How would a modern academic system react to people with copper feruchemy?

[Sunbird she/her]

4 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

Here's a question for an old thread... How would a modern academic system react to people with copper feruchemy?

Knowing the idiocy of the American education system, some cremhole would cry "unfair advantage!" and sue and end up outlawing copperminds in all school settings.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

Now I want to read a story about a Scadrian middle school. 

Pewterarms fighting then trying to claim they shouldn't get punished because they were being rioted. 

Soothing a teacher to try to get less homework. 

Storing health so you could skip school. 

The schools would probably have to employ Seekers to try and detect these things. Copperclouds would be very popular with other Misting and Ferring students. 

[Rasarr she/her]

Perhaps they employ Leechers at the entrance? Though I'm not sure if that wouldn't qualify as some sort of violation of privacy. Someone has to ask Brandon what precautions do Scadrian schools take against Ferring and Misting students.

A propos of nothing, I'd really watch something like a John Hughes movie taking place on Scadrial.

[Oversleep]

I'm happy to see my thread coming back to life!

1 hour ago, Rasarr said:

Perhaps they employ Leechers at the entrance?

Anyway, employing Leechers at the entrance would be terribly cost-ineffective (so. much. chromium.) and students can just not burn anything before passing the entrance. You can't search studends for vials with metal and copperminds could be easily obfuscated as jewelry. Also, even if you could search the students, why can't a Coinshot or Lurcher use their abilities to move around the city? If I were a Coinshot, I'd surely choose Steelpushing over morning traffic jams. Confisquating all those vials would be just stupid.

18 hours ago, Sunbird said:

Knowing the idiocy of the American education system, some cremhole would cry "unfair advantage!" and sue and end up outlawing copperminds in all school settings.

Easily countered by students claiming that metalminds are their cultural heritage and banning them would be discrimination against cultural minority

3 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

Copperclouds would be very popular with other Misting and Ferring students. 

Ferrings don't need Copperclouds... And I think that Pulsers would be a real Riot among students. There is even a story in newspaper about someone speeding up time to survive boring board meetings

Anyway, you all have criminal minds! You only think about bad things! XD There are some fair and legal uses:

Copperminds can be used to store the memory of the class that just ended - that way you can tap it back home while reading your notes; it's super effective. If you ever had trouble with teacher going too fast, I'm sure you'd make use of a zincmind.
Burning pewter to help offset the tiredness or lack of sleep. Or tapping bronze on those early classes... Sliders setting up bubbles to have more time to revise before the test starts.

Also, if somebody wants to store during their school time, why forbid it? There is no harm in someone storing weight.

The only problem would be tests. You have to ban both tins, Feruchemical steel and Feruchemical zinc, Allomantic zinc and Allomantic brass, both coppers, probably Feruchemical chromium...

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Tests and athletics, that is. I think a pewterarm, coinshot, or steelrunner could really cause problems with the sports we have. Unless you were to design a sport that deliberately involved certain types of magic users

But the philosophical question is... Is it really an unfair advantage for someone with feruchemical zinc to use it during a test? I mean, it isn't like they are using a loophole. They will literally have access to the same abilities in real life. So allowing them to use it gives you an accurate reflection of their abilities, which, after all, is the point of a test, no? Is it technically fair? Well no. People are all born with different talents. But it isn't cheating in the traditional sense of the word...

[Ward]

I want to see Steelpush engines. Imagine a water wheel or a weather vane (or an electric motor), except the rotational motion is produced by pushing on a metal fin, then switching to the next one, continuously.

[Arrae]

Sports might have different divisions for pewterarms, to give them a chance to play without trampling over non allomantic players.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

19 minutes ago, Whim said:

I want to see Steelpush engines. Imagine a water wheel or a weather vane (or an electric motor), except the rotational motion is produced by pushing on a metal fin, then switching to the next one, continuously.

Have you by any chance read the second trilogy?

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

But the philosophical question is... Is it really an unfair advantage for someone with feruchemical zinc to use it during a test? I mean, it isn't like they are using a loophole. They will literally have access to the same abilities in real life. So allowing them to use it gives you an accurate reflection of their abilities, which, after all, is the point of a test, no? Is it technically fair? Well no. People are all born with different talents. But it isn't cheating in the traditional sense of the word...

I think it would be unfair, as the tests purpose is not to test you in the real-life situation. It's about testing everyone in the same conditions, theoretically. I mean, engineers use software to calculate things and they don't solve integrals by hand and yet they do solve them on tests. Just because they will have computer do it do not mean they can use it on the exam, right? I know the analogy isn't perfect.

41 minutes ago, Whim said:

I want to see Steelpush engines. Imagine a water wheel or a weather vane (or an electric motor), except the rotational motion is produced by pushing on a metal fin, then switching to the next one, continuously.

There already are in Second Scadrial Era.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

4 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

I think it would be unfair, as the tests purpose is not to test you in the real-life situation. It's about testing everyone in the same conditions, theoretically.

I disagree. We don't make people who are cognitively (earth-word, not Cosmere) exceptional take pills to dull their thoughts to the level of the lowest-common denominator eh? IIRC, Feruchemical zinc does not make you smarter but merely makes you think faster; if you do not know the material before the test you cannot simply tap Feruchemical zinc and learn it during the test. You would simply be thinking "I SHOULD HAVE STUDIED" much faster than the other unprepared people in the room, right?

I think there is some argument to made for restricting copperminds but, personally, I think everyone should use the gifts/talents they have.

 

[Oversleep]

9 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

I disagree. We don't make people who are cognitively (earth-word, not Cosmere) exceptional take pills to dull their thoughts to the level of the lowest-common denominator eh? IIRC, Feruchemical zinc does not make you smarter but merely makes you think faster; if you do not know the material before the test you cannot simply tap Feruchemical zinc and learn it during the test. You would simply be thinking "I SHOULD HAVE STUDIED" much faster than the other unprepared people in the room, right?

I think there is some argument to made for restricting copperminds but, personally, I think everyone should use the gifts/talents they have.

Not all test require remembering facts (coppermind); math test requires mostly thinking (zincminds).

If we make argument that Pewtearms or Steelrunners can't use their powers during sport competitions, then copper- and zincminds have to go too.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

4 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Not all test require remembering facts (coppermind); math test requires mostly thinking (zincminds).

If we make argument that Pewtearms or Steelrunners can't use their powers during sport competitions, then copper- and zincminds have to go too.

Math requires you to know how to solve the problem - no amount of tapping zinc will teach you how to solve equations if you do not already understand how to. 

If I understand how zinc works, it will help you think through the problem faster and perform any mental math faster but it does not teach you anything. I really don't think zinc would provide much advantage in regular testing and only provide a moderate advantage in timed testing.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

In regard to tapping zinc not substituting knowledge... You can totally derive equations mid-test. Memorization is a rather poor substitute for understanding the underlying concepts.

But anyway, I would actually contend that in many serious subjects, if you would have access to a computer in real life, you will have access to it in a test. The trick is that you don't really want unrestricted internet access, hence why TI is in business manufacturing computers that don't have networking capabilities...

[CaptainRyan he/him]

10 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

In regard to tapping zinc not substituting knowledge... You can totally derive equations mid-test. Memorization is a rather poor substitute for understanding the underlying concepts.

If you understand the concepts well enough to derive mathematical equations then you are probably going to do just fine on the test with or without Feruchemical zinc haha

[Pathfinder]

There is WoB that feruchemical zinc also allows for "intuitive leaps". Now that does not mean you are going to ace a mathematical test when you don't understand the formula at all, but it would give you an edge. I think the issue is getting overcomplicated. When taking tests certain tests, we do not let the students use calculators (except in certain situations), and the use of cell phones are prohibited. In some cases cell phones are confiscated, as they would pretty much function as a coppermind. So if in the real world we prohibit cell phones as cheating, why wouldn't the same stand for copperminds and zincminds? Especially when all you have to do is run someone through a metal detector (since the modern trilogy was brought up). Then assuming ett metal constructs that can use allomancy, just have a bronze detector running during a test. The electric metal detectors catch the metal minds, and the bronze detectors catch allomancy. Test is then taken normally. 

[Stormgate he/him]

Or have ettmetal going with chromium bursts. Or maybe aluminum. I'm not sure how it works with those internal metals.

[Eccentric Hero he/him]

On 7/5/2016 at 4:10 PM, CaptainRyan said:

I think there is some argument to made for restricting copperminds but, personally, I think everyone should use the gifts/talents they have.

Tests should test your mastery of a subject without the use of aids. Of course, they wouldn't be stopped from using metalminds at work. But they should have mastered a subject enough to do well without metalminds. There's no knowing what could happen to cause one to lose their metalminds.

[Physicist of the Cosmere she/her]

What about on Roshar? Any Knight Radiant or Squire would have an unfair advantage in sports. There's also the important question of pranks. How might some bored Misting or Radiant punk someone?

"Alright, who Lashed everything in the entire kitchen to the ceiling? I'd be more impressed than mad, but it's chouta night, and none of the cooks are Windrunners."

(Ignore me if I'm derailing too much, though)

[asterion137 he/him]

It's quite possible that EVERYONE will have some forms of allomancy or feruchemy because of nicrosilminds and stuff, which would eliminate the need for school at all (why go to school when you can just compound copper and pass out coppermind textbooks?). However, I think Brandon is trying to make Scadrial roughly follow Earth's socioeconomic growth so it might not happen. If the information from BoM becomes common knowledge it's definitely a possibility, though.