Final Surge

[11thorderknight]

So, at this point we've been able to fill in most of the surgebinding chart, except for a couple of exceptions. The big remaining mystery is, what is the last surge? Here's what we know so far:

 

1) Mystery Surge is either shared by 8/9 or by 9/10, but either way, the Stonewards have it.

 

2) The Stonewards also have the Surface Tension surge.

 

3) In the Starfalls vision, when Dalinar is talking with the Stoneward and she goes off to help the village, she tells him to stay where he is. She also says to call her if there's trouble, and that she'll hear him. I find this curious. How is she supposed to hear him? Not only is she going to be a ways off, but she'll be in the middle of fighting and there will probably be lots of noise. Could this be a clue to what the Mystery Surge is capable of?

[vikorr]

Isn't she the one that performs regrowth on Dalinar/Heb? Admittedly, from memory, she had some sort of 'gem', but even if it was the source of the healing - I doubt they'd entrust that sort of artefact to an order not dedicated to healing.

 

That said - the 'call me and I will hear you' statement is rather intriguing. What if...what if the last surge allowed the KR to form (and manipulate) a bond with others? That, in conjunction with the gem could explain both the healing and the 'call me and I will hear'.

 

...and if you don't quite follow the healing through a bond - stormlight heals, so if you form a bond with another person, and have a large gem full of stormlight...

 

That might sound like a rather weak ability, until you consider you may well be able to form multiple bonds, and if you have a large enough gem - you'd end up with quite a squad.

Edited January 13, 2014 by vikorr

[Shardlet he/him]

I don't agree vikorr.  If she was from one of the orders that had the growth surge, then she would not have needed a fabrial.  It seems much more likely that it would be a fabrial sent out with KR who do not have access to regrowth otherwise.  I think that that is a great grab, 11th.  Though I wonder how it would work.  Is it something akin to allomantic tin where senses are heightened?  Seems unlikely, but not implausible.  But then, how would the communication travel to her without some direct action on her part?  Did she form some sort of a communication pathway beyond Dalinar's ability to observe?  It does seem like it may be a very good clue to the last surge.

[hoser he/him]

Communication would be quite useful for Radiants, IMO, and could explain the comment about hearing him. 

 

Since it seems relevant, I will take the liberty of quoting from a previous post which cites other evidence from the Starfall vision:

 

Actually, there is evidence for remote communication in the Midnight Essence vision (Chapter 19):

Quote

The female Shardbearer turned to her companion, then the two of them fell into stances forming a triangle with Dalinar.

and

Quote

She looked to the side, expression growing distant. Harkaylain says the Desolation is close, and he is not often wrong.

The second quote, in particular, seems to be describing a remote communication in real-time. Does the remote communication ability come from the armor, is it an ability of all radiants or is specific to certain orders? I don't know, but the Stoneward woman doesn't seem to be using a fabrial.

 

[Cayden]

I think if anything it would be spren related, we know little about them but what we do know is that they can travel far and see much further than we do. If they can communicate with each other freely then it adds an additional layer, if they could break off a small piece of themselves without damaging themselves is another option. Think of a sentient span-reed.

 

Myself I think it is more likely the sprens heightened senses and how far it can see, hear and sense. Think about Syl while Bridge 4 were walking away from Dalinar's forces after Sadeas' betrayal. She could see and feel it, the deaths and the pain, even though the humans could only see the outline of the battle from that distance.

[vikorr]

Hi Shardlet - I didn't end up proposing that the surge was 'regrowth' (though when I started writing, that's what it appeared to be).

 

I was proposing that the unknown surge is 'Bonding' (or some fancy name for it).

 

Through a surgebinding 'bonding' with a non-surgebinder, it would grant the 'bonded non-surgebinder' access to stormlights healing properties.

 

Through 'bonding' the KR would be able to communicate with others.

 

If you look at regrowth, this is how it is described in the Lift Interlude :

Lift leaned forward, touched her forehead to his, and breathed out. A shimmering something left her lips, a little cloud of glowing light. It hung in front of Gawx’s lips.

Come on...

It stirred, then drew in through his mouth.

 

Now if you look at how it occurred in Dalinar's vision, you get this in relation to Dalinar's wounds :

She raised a hand and touched his forehead. Ice washed across him. Suddenly, his pain was gone.

 

 

and for Taffa's wounds

 

The woman reached out and touched Taffa. The flesh on her side regrew in an eye-blink; the torn muscle remained where it was, but other flesh just grew where the chunks had been torn out. The skin knitted up over it without flaw.

 

 

So we can already see that this Knight Radiant did healing in a different way to what is known about Regrowth.

 

But if you look at Kaladin's healing, from Chapter 62 you get this :

One sliced open his arm as it shot past...the arm wound leaked light, not blood, and to Kaladin's amazement, it slowly began to seal up, frost crystalising on his skin...'

 

And when we compare the Starfalls vision to Kaladins healing, what we find is that :

 

1. Dalinar's reaction to the healing is very similar to Kaladins reaction : pain vanishing, and a feeling of cold

 

2. Taffa's healing has similarities : the skin healing without a scar, and non-matches in the flesh just growing...but then, we haven't seen Kaladin or Szeth get chunks ripped out of him for comparison, so no conclusion can be drawn from that particular information. 

 

Basically, what we are able to compare matches what Kaladin experiences.

 

.....................................

 

In terms of the Knight Radiant carrying a 'Fabrial' - Dalinar tells Navani that he is certain the ancients possessed no Fabrials (sorry, I can't find that quote), and Dalinar gets a very good long look at the artefact that the Knight Radiant was carrying 

It was a topaz entwined with a heliodor, both set into a fine metal framework, each stone as big as a man's hand.

 

 

If you look at the Fabrial Picture at the start of Chapter 55, and the description of the spanreeds, halfshards, and Navani's painrial (Chapter 60) it becomes clear that Fabrials are gemstones set into functional/mechanical devices. The descriptions we have agree with Dalinar's assessment that it wasn't a Fabrial.

 

Now if you look at Jasnah's healing Shallan, and the Ars Arcanum at the rear of Part 2, it becomes clear that different gemstones achieve different things (eg a Heliodors Soulcasting attributes relate to 'Meat/Flesh', while a Topaz's relates to 'Rock/Stone'), and two gemstones each the size of your hand would require a setting to keep them together, especially in the heat of battle (without a setting, you could almost imagine in the heat of battle an 'oops, I dropped one' scenario). So what the KR appears to be carrying, is just two very large gemstones in a setting.

 

What then explains:

1. The healing outside of regrowth and a Fabrial; AND

2. Appears to match Kaladins healing (but experienced by a non surgebinder when a surgebinder touches them); AND

3. the ability to communicate over great distances?

 

I would say it's caused by a surge that is a 'bonding' surge (combined of course with that dual gemstone setting the KR was carrying)

Edited January 13, 2014 by vikorr

[Moogle]

I made a theory about sectioning the Surges into Physical/Cognitive/Spiritual (WOR SPOILERS) here.

 

Under this theory, the missing Surge will be Spiritual, so it can be symmetrical with Gravity.

 

The Spiritual Realm has to do with the essence of things, what they truly are, and how these things connect to each other. This is why Gravity is Spiritual - it is about changing the connection between things, so now the connection between things and the ground is altered. Similarly, you can expect Friction to be Spiritual, because it makes the person temporarily ignore the connections between things, and so on with 6/10 Surges.

 

This doesn't tell us a lot, though. Things we'd expect to be Physical are actually Spiritual in the Cosmere.

 

If we take it as an assumption that the Stoneward's ability to hear things from afar is Surge-related (which I don't think is necessarily the case), I think it's within reason to say that their Surge is going to involve connecting things more than they already are, or creating new connections, just to round out the rest of the Spiritual Powers.

 

We've got a way to alter your connections (Gravity), a way to sever connections (Division), a way to increase/decrease strength of connections (Friction), a way to change connections entirely (Transportation), which leaves a way to make more connections (Unknown Surge).

 

I'm not sure if the Stoneward used it, though. She never touched Dalinar, which is a requirement when you Surgebind other people. If her Surge passively sends her soundwaves, or expands space around her so she can see and hear more things (leading to 'ward' in 'Stoneward'), that is way out of line with the rest of the Surges. I also doubt it's likely to increase her strength, or provide increased senses like tin, because that is way out of line with the Surges too. It's not out of line with the effects of holding Stormlight or Shardplate, though.

 

Anyways, this is all a long rambling post which is meant to say I have no real idea but doubt it's a communication Surge.

 

The idea of a Bonding Surge, which forms a connection between you and something else (the Radiant and Dalinar, so she could hear him), is interesting. It also establishes a sort of link to spanreeds and their ability to form connections. It seems unworkable, though. Bonding people to allow them to hear each other would require a touch, something the Radiant never did (unless she did it when using the fabrial). Dalinar isn't glowing, and he can't suddenly hear her thoughts, and such a bond wouldn't be one of the fundamental forces of the universe.

 

Forming connections to other things could be an interesting way to look at a sound-based Surge, or this resonance business a lot of people are going crazy for. Forming connections could be an interesting way to look at communication/soundwaves in the abstract.

 

Whacky theory: I could see it allowing the Stoneward to compress spacetime, or something, so that one step causes you to move 10 forward, or allowing her to stretch spacetime so that a Voidbringer charging at her suddenly moves really slowly (because it has to travel a larger distance). It would allow sound to get to her without being too quiet to hear by setting up a corridor from Dalinar's location to her, and explain why she said to 'wait here'. Issue is, we don't see any glowing Stormlight in the air to show us altered space.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Moogle

[Shardlet he/him]

You make some good points, vikorr.  But I would counter all that with just one thing.  The KR in the Starfalls chapter calls what she provides to Taffa and Dalinar "regrowth".  That is a pretty heavy hurdle to overcome in order to validate your thoughts.

 

On top of that, Dalinar's and Taffa's healing was near instantaneous, while Kaladin's charged stormlight healing was rapid, but not nearly instantaneous.  It also seems unlikely that the fabrial could transfer stormlight into someone who can't otherwise infuse.  There may be such a fabrial, but it seems that if Dalinar and Taffa were power infused with enough stormlight to heal them instantaneously, then there would be some outward manifestation of that infusion such as glowiness of breathing out stormlight.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Isn't she the one that performs regrowth on Dalinar/Heb? Admittedly, from memory, she had some sort of 'gem', but even if it was the source of the healing - I doubt they'd entrust that sort of artefact to an order not dedicated to healing.

That said - the 'call me and I will hear you' statement is rather intriguing. What if...what if the last surge allowed the KR to form (and manipulate) a bond with others? That, in conjunction with the gem could explain both the healing and the 'call me and I will hear'.

...and if you don't quite follow the healing through a bond - stormlight heals, so if you form a bond with another person, and have a large gem full of stormlight...

That might sound like a rather weak ability, until you consider you may well be able to form multiple bonds, and if you have a large enough gem - you'd end up with quite a squad.

Why would you only give people that can naturally heal people devices to heal people with? It's like assuming that only doctors should be trained in first aid - the entire point is to let more people, not less, use it.

[DocHoliday he/him]

The second quote, in particular, seems to be describing a remote communication in real-time. Does the remote communication ability come from the armor, is it an ability of all radiants or is specific to certain orders? I don't know, but the Stoneward woman doesn't seem to be using a fabrial.

 

Concerning the quote, I think she was deep in thought and reflecting on what is to come. I imagine this Harkaylain standing up and telling everyone : The Desolation is nigh! Our sacrifice to the people, our purpose as the Watchers is here..

Pretty sobering stuff.

 

As for the last sentence. I disagree completely. I believe that was a Regrowth fabrial with a set number of 'charges', hence her hesitance to use it twice on one person. 

We've seen no other time where KR or Surgebinders need the use of gemstones as foci for their Surges.

But a foci for another's Surge? Distinctly possible.

[vikorr]

Good point Shardlet

[11thorderknight]

There's so much we don't know. I read Harkaylain as being someone else that talked about Desolations a while back, and she was remembering. It could also be her spren though. Similarly, we see Wyndle and Syl warn their bonded about things; maybe that's how she would "hear" Dalinar shout.

 

One other thought just occured to me: At the end of Way of Kings, when Taln shows up, we see his speak Alethi with no accent. So far, we've all assumed this is an attribute of the Heralds, which would make sense. It's probably that. However.....what if it's an ability derived from the Final Surge? Remember, Taln's a Stoneward....

[DocHoliday he/him]

There's so much we don't know. I read Harkaylain as being someone else that talked about Desolations a while back, and she was remembering. It could also be her spren though. Similarly, we see Wyndle and Syl warn their bonded about things; maybe that's how she would "hear" Dalinar shout.

 

One other thought just occured to me: At the end of Way of Kings, when Taln shows up, we see his speak Alethi with no accent. So far, we've all assumed this is an attribute of the Heralds, which would make sense. It's probably that. However.....what if it's an ability derived from the Final Surge? Remember, Taln's a Stoneward....

You know that's an interesting idea. Like how Shards can focus on individuals and what's going on with them. We've speculated that the accent out lack thereof was an attribute of the Spren bond, or that Damnation exists in the Cognitive realm, but I like this more. Upvote

[11thorderknight]

Thank you!

 

One more thought: With all the orders we've seen so far, the name of the Order seems to be closely related to one of their surges, but not to the other. And so far, in every case, it's been related to the counter-clockwise surge in the chart. For instance, Windrunners are named for Gravity, Skybreakers for Pressure, Dustbringers for Division, Edgedancers for Frictions, Order 5 will likely be named for Growth, Lightweavers for Illumination, Elsecallers for Transformation, Order 8 likely will be named for Transportation, etc. If the pattern holds, that means that knowing the names of the Stonewards and the Bondsmiths tells us about the order of their surges.

 

So - we know from Teft that the Radiants could "make stones melt by looking at them". Jasnah also mentions "women who danced in the sky and men who could break stones with a touch". Both refer to stone, but that could be a generic reference to something durable. Both could also be accomplished by Division (we have Kalak PoV that Dustbringers could make stones smolder). However, making stone (or other things) melt could also be a use of surface tension. If you take away an objects surface tension/shape/whatever, it would basically turn liquid. That sounds like surge that would give rise to the name Bondsmiths. 

 

In which case, the Stonewards are named for the Final Surge. Well, what does the name tell us? Well, we know it will somehow relate to Stone, but it doesn't have to be super-literal; a lot of the order names have a bit of a leap to the first part of the name (i.e. Edgedancers, Windrunners, Elsecallers). But the second part....."wards". To "ward" something means to guard it, to keep it secure, to watch it. Therefore, Stonewards could mean either "those who guard stone" or "those who use stone to guard". Now, keep in mind that there's other references out there to stone. In Shinovar, stone is holy and not to be walked upon or touched/altered, and there are Stone Shamans. And the Desolations all seem to involve thunderclasts, which are basically evil/corrupt spren that take over a large block of stone and animate it into a giant monster. Therefore, in Roshar, stone is something which could perhaps use some guarding. Add to that the fact that, if my guess on the surge's place in the chart is correct, it ought to grant access to Shadesmar. 

 

So....my final guess is that the Final Surge grants some sort of Cognitive Awareness and maybe communication. 

[el_warko he/him]

Thank you!

 

One more thought: With all the orders we've seen so far, the name of the Order seems to be closely related to one of their surges, but not to the other. And so far, in every case, it's been related to the counter-clockwise surge in the chart. For instance, Windrunners are named for Gravity, Skybreakers for Pressure, Dustbringers for Division, Edgedancers for Frictions, Order 5 will likely be named for Growth, Lightweavers for Illumination, Elsecallers for Transformation, Order 8 likely will be named for Transportation, etc. If the pattern holds, that means that knowing the names of the Stonewards and the Bondsmiths tells us about the order of their surges.

 

So - we know from Teft that the Radiants could "make stones melt by looking at them". Jasnah also mentions "women who danced in the sky and men who could break stones with a touch". Both refer to stone, but that could be a generic reference to something durable. Both could also be accomplished by Division (we have Kalak PoV that Dustbringers could make stones smolder). However, making stone (or other things) melt could also be a use of surface tension. If you take away an objects surface tension/shape/whatever, it would basically turn liquid. That sounds like surge that would give rise to the name Bondsmiths. 

 

In which case, the Stonewards are named for the Final Surge. Well, what does the name tell us? Well, we know it will somehow relate to Stone, but it doesn't have to be super-literal; a lot of the order names have a bit of a leap to the first part of the name (i.e. Edgedancers, Windrunners, Elsecallers). But the second part....."wards". To "ward" something means to guard it, to keep it secure, to watch it. Therefore, Stonewards could mean either "those who guard stone" or "those who use stone to guard". Now, keep in mind that there's other references out there to stone. In Shinovar, stone is holy and not to be walked upon or touched/altered, and there are Stone Shamans. And the Desolations all seem to involve thunderclasts, which are basically evil/corrupt spren that take over a large block of stone and animate it into a giant monster. Therefore, in Roshar, stone is something which could perhaps use some guarding. Add to that the fact that, if my guess on the surge's place in the chart is correct, it ought to grant access to Shadesmar. 

 

So....my final guess is that the Final Surge grants some sort of Cognitive Awareness and maybe communication. 

 

This is why I like resonance / frequency / waveform.  You heat something (melt rock) by increasing the vibration of the constituent molecules, similarly, sound carries thorugh vibration.  WRT accesss to Shadesmar, maybe by matching the frequency of the cognetive and physical you can open gate between teh two?

[DocHoliday he/him]

Im sorry, I'm not familiar with WRT? Frequency is acc interesting option, especially in conjunction with something like surface tension. I imagine this like throwing balls of molten slag to be entirely possible. But I can also see things like turning the air around a person hard as stone, particularly if the molecules can be excited in such a way as to cause them to group together.

 

The order names are not wily nily, so there has to be expressed use of their Surges to name them StoneWards

[el_warko he/him]

 

Im sorry, I'm not familiar with WRT?

 

The order names are not wily nily, so there has to be expressed use of their Surges to name them StoneWards

 

With Respect To.

 

The only logical answer to the very valid point you make is that Stoneward contains. . . . . . . tone.

 

Don't worry, I'll show myself out.

Edited January 14, 2014 by el_warko

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Windrunners are named for Gravity, Skybreakers for Pressure,

 

I'm not sure if I agree with the premise of what you are trying to say.  But I can definitely say that Skybreakers aren't named for Pressure, since they don't have it.  Gravity is the surge shared between them.  Pressure is between the Windrunners and Order 10.  The Skybreakers' other surge is Divison.

[el_warko he/him]

The Skybreakers' other surge is Divison.

 

Which is a far more breaky type word.

[11thorderknight]

I'm not sure if I agree with the premise of what you are trying to say.  But I can definitely say that Skybreakers aren't named for Pressure, since they don't have it.  Gravity is the surge shared between them.  Pressure is between the Windrunners and Order 10.  The Skybreakers' other surge is Divison.

 

Really? When did that get announced? I know there's nothing in the text to say whether Gravity or Pressure is 10/1 or 1/2, but the Chart that was supposedly shown to Brandon has Pressure being shared with the Skybreakers. Did something change?

[hoser he/him]

Peter corrected it afterward.  Really, if I had to interact with as many people as Brandon does on tour, I wouldn't be able to tell up from down.  The latest chart I know about is here. 

Edited January 14, 2014 by hoser

[vikorr]

Well, I'm not sure of it's relevance, but (as it mentioned the word 'bond') I thought I'd post an excerpt from the back cover of Words of Radiance :

 

The Windrunner, lost in a shattered land, balanced upon the boundary between  vengeance and honor. The Lightweaver, slowly being consumed by her past, searching for the lie that she must become. The Bondsmith, born in blood and death, striving to rebuild what was destroyed. The Explorer, straddling the fates of two peoples, forced to  choose between slow death and a terrible betrayal of all she believes.

 

 

Now admittedly 'The Explorer' appears to refer to either Eshonai or Jasnah. If Jasnah, it misses her title of Elsecaller and throws into doubt the meaning of Bondsmith. But if refers to Eshonai (who desperately wants to Explore), then Bondsmith may be one of the KR orders. And the name may give a clue to the final Surge.

 

Edit : I have no idea who the Bondsmith is.

Edited January 14, 2014 by vikorr

[el_warko he/him]

Well, I'm not sure of it's relevance, but (as it mentioned the word 'bond') I thought I'd post an excerpt from the back cover of Words of Radiance :

 

 

Now admittedly 'The Explorer' appears to refer to either Eshonai or Jasnah. If Jasnah, it misses her title of Elsecaller and throws into doubt the meaning of Bondsmith. But if refers to Eshonai (who desperately wants to Explore), then Bondsmith may be one of the KR orders. And the name may give a clue to the final Surge.

 

Edit : I have no idea who the Bondsmith is.

 

My money is on Dalinar: Born in blood and death - his time as the Blackthorn.  Striving to rebuild what was destroyed - the KR &/OR the Alethi - Galivar's vision.

Edited January 14, 2014 by el_warko

[vikorr]

Dalinar would actually make sense (especially rather than introducing a new major character), and as he shows signs of surgebinding, 'Bondsmith' would likely then be an Order of the Knights Radiant.

 

Edit : I initially thought Elohkar, then ruled that out on him seeing Cryptics, and not particularly trying to rebuild anything...hence I didn't immediately think of Dalinar.

Edited January 14, 2014 by vikorr

[Moogle]

 

One more thought: With all the orders we've seen so far, the name of the Order seems to be closely related to one of their surges, but not to the other. And so far, in every case, it's been related to the counter-clockwise surge in the chart. For instance, Windrunners are named for Gravity, Skybreakers for Pressure, Dustbringers for Division, Edgedancers for Frictions, Order 5 will likely be named for Growth, Lightweavers for Illumination, Elsecallers for Transformation, Order 8 likely will be named for Transportation, etc. If the pattern holds, that means that knowing the names of the Stonewards and the Bondsmiths tells us about the order of their surges.

 

Interesting thoughts, but I'm not sure I agree.

• Windrunners = Wind (Pressure) + Runners (Gravity letting you run on walls)
• Skybreakers = Sky (Gravity) + Breakers (Division)
• Dustbringers = Dust (Division) + Bringers
• Edgedancers = Edge + Dancers (Friction)
• Lightweavers = Light (Illumination) + Weavers (Transformation)
• Elsecallers = Else (Transformation) + Callers (Transportation)
• Bondsmiths = Order 10 based on the name, I welcome anyone to connect it with Transportation if they can = Bond (Pressure) + Smith (Surface Tension letting you craft things)
• Brightcallers = Speculative name for Order 5 = Bright (Illumination) + Callers
• Stonewards = Stone (Surface Tension) + Wards

I don't think the pattern is very clear at all. The missing Surge is Spiritual, if you want to go with my whacky theory on things being symmetrical (it's opposite Gravity). That doesn't mean much, and Cognitive Awareness is definitely nothing like any other Surge. Every Surge has some sort of effect on the environment or can be used on objects. There's no exceptions. The missing Surge shouldn't provide anything Cognitive or enhancey, because it breaks the mold.