Final Surge

[Shardlet he/him]

I still tentatively hold onto the woman Radiant in Starfalls recalling what was said by Harkaylain rather than relaying what was just said by Harkaylain.  However, in light of point 3) in the OP, I am beginning to consider a surge which enables communication as an actual possibility.  However, I don't like 'frequency' for this.  It is too general (i.e., vibrational frequency, EM wave frequency?).

Edited January 14, 2014 by Shardlet

[Stoneward]

As the resident Stoneward, I feel like I should weigh in on this. (Sorry for the long post.)

I don't think the Radiant order names exactly match one surge or another, but rather describe their abilities, which are a combination of both surges. Names are likely to come from very notable and memorable visible effects, like:

• Skybreakers: "Those who break the sky" or "Those who break from the sky". The Gravity surge allows you flight; division allows you to break things. Breaking things from the sky, or while crashing down from the sky, is very notable.
• Dustbringers: "The bringers of dust". The combination of division and friction = decimation and burning. You literally "bring dust" by creating it from your enemies. I think you see where I'm coming from.

Let's break down Stoneward the same way: "Wardens of Stone". Let's get some definitions.

• Ward: From Merriam-Webster: "guard or protect".
• Stone: This is either a noun, referring to the thing the Stoneward protects, (Ie: literal rocks or a place named "Stone") or an adjective describing "Ward" describing how they protect. As an adjective, it would mean "hard, solid, difficult to move or break". Of the two, I find the adjective much more interesting.

Thus "Stoneward" becomes "Solid Protector", or "Unbreakable Guardian". Not only does this give me chills, but it fits very well with the description of Talenel from the prologue. He has "a tendency to choose seemingly hopeless fights and win them." And he died holding (guarding) a passage.

I image that this order filling a role much like a "tank" class in role playing video games. As such, your job is to:

• Prevent the Bad Things from hitting your squishy friends.
• Not die before the Bad Things die. ('cause then they'll hit your squishy friends.)

If you're with me so far, the Stonewards' surges need to make them the best order at doing these two things, together.

Brandon's description of the Surface Tension** surge (towel = shield?) is probably where the "Stone" part and the "Not Dying" part come in, but that's only half of the story. Staying alive is not doing your job if you aren't keeping yourself between the bad guys and your squishies.

Speaking from a lot of experience here (WoW tank class for 6 years), staying alive was the easier job of the two. Being a good tank requires incredible awareness. To protect others, you have to know where they are, what they are going to be doing for the next 5 seconds, and be able to determine how much danger they are going to be in compared to anyone else. The best tanks have a perfect awareness of the battlefield, knowing the placement and movement of every enemy and foe.

So, in conclusion to everything, I think the last surge will somehow help the Stoneward to be much more aware of the people they are protecting. A spiritual link would work for this, as Moogle suggested. Sound/waves does't feel quite right, to me, though.

 

edit: Thanks to WeiryWriter for correcting me on my own name. Someone should probably update the chart linked here.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Stoneward

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I would like to point out it is Stoneward, not Stonewarden.

[Stoneward]

How sure are we of that? The latest chart approved by Brandon and corrected by Peter has the order listed as "Stonewarden".

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Completely sure.  The name is given as "Stoneward" in WoK.

[Moogle]

Peter has confirmed that Brandon has referred to it as Stonewarden, though the actual name is Stoneward. I can't find the post. If you look at his post history, you should be able to find it.

[Stoneward]

I just found it in the Dalinar vision at Feverstone. Now I am sad, but will edit my post. And probably my name.

 

It's done. It doesn't really change the points in my previous post; using ward as "guard or protect" actually makes it a little clearer.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Stoneward

[el_warko he/him]

I still tentatively hold onto the woman Radiant in Starfalls recalling what was said by Harkaylain rather than relaying what was just said by Harkaylain.  However, in light of point 3) in the OP, I am beginning to consider a surge which enables communication as an actual possibility.  However, I don't like 'frequency' for this.  It is too general (i.e., vibrational frequency, EM wave frequency?).

 

Maybe vibration then?  Covers heating your dinner and long distance calling.  Also, by that rationale isn't growth slightly too vague?  Aging growth, healing growth, spiritual growth?

 

WRT Stoneward(en) could that not just be singular and plural?  (S)he is a Stoneward, they are Stonewarden?

[Swimmingly he/him]

Maybe vibration then? Covers heating your dinner and long distance calling. Also, by that rationale isn't growth slightly too vague? Aging growth, healing growth, spiritual growth?

WRT Stoneward(en) could that not just be singular and plural? (S)he is a Stoneward, they are Stonewarden?

Or they're interchangable.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Maybe vibration then? Covers heating your dinner and long distance calling. Also, by that rationale isn't growth slightly too vague? Aging growth, healing growth, spiritual growth?

WRT Stoneward(en) could that not just be singular and plural? (S)he is a Stoneward, they are Stonewarden?

Or they're interchangable.

[Shardlet he/him]

Maybe vibration then?  Covers heating your dinner and long distance calling.  Also, by that rationale isn't growth slightly too vague?  Aging growth, healing growth, spiritual growth?

 

WRT Stoneward(en) could that not just be singular and plural?  (S)he is a Stoneward, they are Stonewarden?

 

The only growth in aging (besides noses ears and their associated hairs) is maturation which also corresponds reasonably to healing growth.  Spiritual growth doesn't really pertain to a physical process.  

[Swimmingly he/him]

The only growth in aging (besides noses ears and their associated hairs) is maturation which also corresponds reasonably to healing growth. Spiritual growth doesn't really pertain to a physical process.

Unless we literally mean Spiritual growth; growth of sDNA

[Shardlet he/him]

Seems unlikely given the other surges regard physical effects.

[el_warko he/him]

The only growth in aging (besides noses ears and their associated hairs) is maturation which also corresponds reasonably to healing growth.  Spiritual growth doesn't really pertain to a physical process.  

 

Spiritual growth was said somewhat tongue in cheek.  Though with regard ot sDNA, it is a physical change though the effect is not readily apparent.

 

The point you make is valid, but given cellular replication / regeneration by its very nature hastens the aging process (telomere degradation etc.) and the man's proclivity towards science. (Yeah, Science!) I would argue that they are different enough. However, you should never let science (or truth) get in the way of a good story. I am prepared to suspend my disbelief.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

WRT Stoneward(en) could that not just be singular and plural?  (S)he is a Stoneward, they are Stonewarden?

 

In the book the plural that is used is "Stonewards".

[Swimmingly he/him]

Spiritual growth was said somewhat tongue in cheek. Though with regard ot sDNA, it is a physical change though the effect is not readily apparent.

The point you make is valid, but given cellular replication / regeneration by its very nature hastens the aging process (telomere degradation etc.) and the man's proclivity towards science. (Yeah, Science!) I would argue that they are different enough. However, you should never let science (or truth) get in the way of a good story. I am prepared to suspend my disbelief.

The surge probably replaces the displaced telomeres somehow.

[11thorderknight]

As the resident Stoneward, I feel like I should weigh in on this. (Sorry for the long post.)

I don't think the Radiant order names exactly match one surge or another, but rather describe their abilities, which are a combination of both surges. Names are likely to come from very notable and memorable visible effects, like:

• Skybreakers: "Those who break the sky" or "Those who break from the sky". The Gravity surge allows you flight; division allows you to break things. Breaking things from the sky, or while crashing down from the sky, is very notable.
• Dustbringers: "The bringers of dust". The combination of division and friction = decimation and burning. You literally "bring dust" by creating it from your enemies. I think you see where I'm coming from.

Let's break down Stoneward the same way: "Wardens of Stone". Let's get some definitions.

• Ward: From Merriam-Webster: "guard or protect".
• Stone: This is either a noun, referring to the thing the Stoneward protects, (Ie: literal rocks or a place named "Stone") or an adjective describing "Ward" describing how they protect. As an adjective, it would mean "hard, solid, difficult to move or break". Of the two, I find the adjective much more interesting.

Thus "Stoneward" becomes "Solid Protector", or "Unbreakable Guardian". Not only does this give me chills, but it fits very well with the description of Talenel from the prologue. He has "a tendency to choose seemingly hopeless fights and win them." And he died holding (guarding) a passage.

I image that this order filling a role much like a "tank" class in role playing video games. As such, your job is to:

• Prevent the Bad Things from hitting your squishy friends.
• Not die before the Bad Things die. ('cause then they'll hit your squishy friends.)

If you're with me so far, the Stonewards' surges need to make them the best order at doing these two things, together.

Brandon's description of the Surface Tension** surge (towel = shield?) is probably where the "Stone" part and the "Not Dying" part come in, but that's only half of the story. Staying alive is not doing your job if you aren't keeping yourself between the bad guys and your squishies.

Speaking from a lot of experience here (WoW tank class for 6 years), staying alive was the easier job of the two. Being a good tank requires incredible awareness. To protect others, you have to know where they are, what they are going to be doing for the next 5 seconds, and be able to determine how much danger they are going to be in compared to anyone else. The best tanks have a perfect awareness of the battlefield, knowing the placement and movement of every enemy and foe.

So, in conclusion to everything, I think the last surge will somehow help the Stoneward to be much more aware of the people they are protecting. A spiritual link would work for this, as Moogle suggested. Sound/waves does't feel quite right, to me, though.

 

edit: Thanks to WeiryWriter for correcting me on my own name. Someone should probably update the chart linked here.

 

I have to disagree with your analysis of Order names. I will admit that the Skybreakers seem to incorporate elements of both Gravity (flight) and Division, and Windrunners can be tied to both Gravity and Pressure, though I'd argue that they're named their ability to fly, which uses only the Gravity surge from what we know. However, every other order name seems to relate to one of the order's surges much more strongly than to the other. Dustbringers, to use your example, clearly reference Division. But I'm not sure how you can possibly stretch that word to cover Friction. And good luck tying Edgedancer and Growth, or Lightweaver and Transformation, or Elsecaller and Transportation. I'll eat my hat that Palah's order will be unambiguously named after Growth and have nothing to do with Illumination.

 

I had a much stronger argument back when I thought Gravity was 10/1 and Pressure was 1/2. At that point, there was a definite pattern that orders were named after their counterclockwise surge. Now....well, the pattern is still there, just a bit fuzzy for the Windrunners and Skybreakers. But you can't say there's not a pattern there.

[Moogle]

 I'll eat my hat that Palah's order will be unambiguously named after Growth and have nothing to do with Illumination.

 

Hear that Kurk? You've got another one to mark down.

 

I of course am safe from having to eat a hat because it's obvious that Bondsmiths are Order 10, but I'm not so sure on this guy.

[Stoneward]

I have to disagree with your analysis of Order names. I will admit that the Skybreakers seem to incorporate elements of both Gravity (flight) and Division, and Windrunners can be tied to both Gravity and Pressure, though I'd argue that they're named their ability to fly, which uses only the Gravity surge from what we know. However, every other order name seems to relate to one of the order's surges much more strongly than to the other. Dustbringers, to use your example, clearly reference Division. But I'm not sure how you can possibly stretch that word to cover Friction. And good luck tying Edgedancer and Growth, or Lightweaver and Transformation, or Elsecaller and Transportation. I'll eat my hat that Palah's order will be unambiguously named after Growth and have nothing to do with Illumination.

 

I had a much stronger argument back when I thought Gravity was 10/1 and Pressure was 1/2. At that point, there was a definite pattern that orders were named after their counterclockwise surge. Now....well, the pattern is still there, just a bit fuzzy for the Windrunners and Skybreakers. But you can't say there's not a pattern there.

My point is not so much that the names always reflect both surges equally, but that the names reflect the cool/flashy effects that people see the radians preform. Turning things to dust is memorable. Breaking things from the sky is memorable. Sure, edge dancers heal, but they also rip along narrow ledges, balanced impossibly while going 90 miles an hour. The person who got healed May care more about that, but the balancing thing is flashy. People won't forget it.

In that vein of thought, I think the stonewards were remembered for standing there, protecting you, while taking punches from thunderclasts and just shrugging it off like it was nothing.

[Swimmingly he/him]

My point is not so much that the names always reflect both surges equally, but that the names reflect the cool/flashy effects that people see the radians preform. Turning things to dust is memorable. Breaking things from the sky is memorable. Sure, edge dancers heal, but they also rip along narrow ledges, balanced impossibly while going 90 miles an hour. The person who got healed May care more about that, but the balancing thing is flashy. People won't forget it.

In that vein of thought, I think the stonewards were remembered for standing there, protecting you, while taking punches from thunderclasts and just shrugging it off like it was nothing.

Pwfah! Those Edgedancers, skating about! Real men get into cage bouts with gigantic animated hunks of rock, no prissy jumping about and ignoring gravity or messing about with illusions!

[11thorderknight]

Pwfah! Those Edgedancers, skating about! Real men get into cage bouts with gigantic animated hunks of rock, no prissy jumping about and ignoring gravity or messing about with illusions!

 

Dude have you ever watched a hockey game?! That's what I'd imagine the Edgedancers and Dustbringers to be like on the battlefield....basically skating around everyone and laying about with their hockeystick/shardblade.

[11thorderknight]

My point is not so much that the names always reflect both surges equally, but that the names reflect the cool/flashy effects that people see the radians preform. Turning things to dust is memorable. Breaking things from the sky is memorable. Sure, edge dancers heal, but they also rip along narrow ledges, balanced impossibly while going 90 miles an hour. The person who got healed May care more about that, but the balancing thing is flashy. People won't forget it.

In that vein of thought, I think the stonewards were remembered for standing there, protecting you, while taking punches from thunderclasts and just shrugging it off like it was nothing.

 

Oh, I totally agree with you. I just noticed that there was a pattern to the naming, and that it might help us figure out what the Final Surge was. So, since we now know that Bondsmiths are #10, and that they have "surface tension" and pressure, it's almost certain that Stonewards are named for the Final Surge. The mystery isn't so much in the "ward" part of the name, as in what it has to do with stone.

[Swimmingly he/him]

As has been stated: Stone = Hard, unyielding, heavy, strong. May also refer to some ability of theirs, to do with using stone as a shield. If they warded stone, they could have guarded an important stone, or, conversly, warded against stone by being the most effective Thunderclast killers/distractors.

[vikorr]

Woo Hoo, it appears I guessed the final Surge correctly. With the release of chapters 3 to 5, I found this Quote - which is from the complete version of Dalinar's vision.

 

It occurs with the group of soldiers around the Knight Radiant just after the Thunderclast appears. And this Knight Radiant also appears to be able to communicate at a distances :

 

Dalinar finished repeating the words. Beyond him, the fight began in earnest, water splashing, rock grinding. Soldiers approached bearing hammers, and unexpectedly, these men now also glowed with Stormlight, though far more faintly.

[Stoneward]

Oh, I totally agree with you. I just noticed that there was a pattern to the naming, and that it might help us figure out what the Final Surge was. So, since we now know that Bondsmiths are #10, and that they have "surface tension" and pressure, it's almost certain that Stonewards are named for the Final Surge. The mystery isn't so much in the "ward" part of the name, as in what it has to do with stone.

Right, which I don't think will hold true here. In my opinion, the name "Bondsmith" doesn't stop the stone in Stoneward from coming from the solidity of the ST surge, telling us little to nothing about the unknown surge. I do think your pattern was a clever Idea, though.

For the record, I'm willing to bet one hat eating that the last surge has nothing to do with rocks.