Chapters 3-5 up on Tor

[Darkness he/him]

Regardless, crystal and gemstone aren't the same thing, because the crystal walls don't suddenly flash and burst with light in result of every highstorm. I'm pretty sure that would have been remarked upon, and famous even, if the whole building (or even just some of the rooms) lit up like a beacon every single storm. Unless the crystals was restricted to the inner walls… but where would the sense be in that? If the crystal lit up at all, you would almost certainly put it on the outside of the building. Light is useful, and showy. I can't see people resisting the idea.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited January 17, 2014 by Darkness

[Shardlet he/him]

I agree that even if the walls were crystalline, they would not be polestone crystals.  The value would be just unimaginably to high to just leave them in situ.  There would have to be an extraordinarily powerful reason to just leave them in place.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I'm fairly certain that the Palanaeum's walls don't count as gemstone, since they are Soulcast. I'm almost positive you can't Soulcast actual gemstones out of other things. It's more like glass than one of the actual stormlight-holding gems.

 

EDIT: And Shardlet, the Palanaeum proper also has sections of crystal within it.

 

Shallan continued on her way. Her parshman servant carried a sphere lantern containing a trio of sapphire marks. The soft blue light reflected against the stone walls, portions of which had been Soulcast into quartz purely for ornamentation. The railings had been carved from wood, then transformed to marble. When she ran her fingers across one, she could feel the original wood’s grain. At the same time, it had the cold smoothness of stone. An oddity that seemed designed to confuse the senses.

Ch. 33

Edited January 17, 2014 by FeatherWriter

[Shardlet he/him]

I find that quote interesting Feather.  Shallan clearly indicates that quartz can be soulcast.  Yet we know that gemstones, for stormlight purposes, (according also to Shallan) cannot be soulcast.  However, amethyst and, presumably, smokestone (being most likely smokey quartz) are stormlight gemstones.  So, apparently pure crystalline silicon dioxide (clear colorless quartz) can be soulcast, but quartz with the appropriate impurities cannot.  This is, at the very least, very strong evidence that there is something particularly special about the polestone gemstones.   

[Maximus]

I think Brandon has said something to that effect, or at least that it is their colour, and not their chemical/structural makeup that makes them special.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Right you are, Maximus. It's all about "[t]he chemical and color signature".

 

Source:

ARSENOPYRITE ()

I have a technical question here re: gemstones in The Stormlight Archive. How are the lines drawn between different types of gems? Emerald and Heliodor are both varieties of the mineral beryl. Emerald can get its color from trace amounts of chromium, vanadium and/or iron. Heliodor gets its color from iron combined with microscopic crystal defects. So, is the line between these two defined by color? If so, would a heliodor lose its usefulness if it were heated (which would turn it colorless or pale blue). Is it defined by trace elements—in which case, how do you deal with emeralds, or with aquamarine (the blue variety of beryl, which can also contain chromium or vanadium in small quantities and is mostly colored by iron)? Sorry for getting so technical, but this gem nerd needs to know!

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

I actually spent a long time working on this while building the world. You'd probably be amused by how long I spent on it. Chemically, many of them are actually very similar, as you pointed out. I tried doing the book originally with them all being different, not using any that were basically the same crystal with different colors, but it didn't work out. There weren't enough, and so I had to stretch to make it all work.

 

So, I went back to the original, and decided that color was enough to differentiate them. Just as steel and iron are very similar in the Mistborn world, emerald and heliodor can be very similar—but produce different effects. The idea here is that the physical items (like the metals or the crystals) provide a key by which magical interaction occurs.

 

So, in a long winded answer, a gemstone with an impure color would be considered like a bad alloy in the Mistborn magic—it either wouldn't work at all, or would work very poorly. The chemical and color signature needs to be of a specific variety to provide the proper key to accessing the power of transformation.

[Shardlet he/him]

I know that quote well.  I used it just recently.  Though it is beneficial to have it here to give additional context.  I meant that not only does each specific gem have a specific function in soulcasting, but that some gemstones can be soulcast while others cannot.  That is the part which I don't recall ever seeing discussed before.  Previously it was assumed that either gemstones couldn't be soulcast or that the resulting gemstone came at a higher price than the value of the gemstone produced.  But we see that quartz can indeed be soulcast for no purpose other than decoration.  This would mean that either the cost of that decoration was exorbitant or that some gemstones can be soulcast but stormlight gemstones cannot.  This would suggest that there is something more to the stormlight gemstones than merely their molecular structure.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Shardlet

[Kurkistan he/him]

Sorry that I implied that you were a quoteless wretch, Shardlet. I just do so love quoting things.

 

Actually, Shardlet, we had a discussion about this awhile back. Or was there some aspect of it that you'd like to explore further?

Edited January 17, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Natans he/him]

Sorry that I implied that you were a quoteless wretch, Shardlet. I just do so love quoting things.

 

Actually, Shardlet, we had a discussion about this awhile back. Or was there some aspect of it that you'd like to explore further?

 

Now you are quoting long forget posts of other member of the forum !

 

I bow before your quotiness

 

*Bow solemnly*

[Shardlet he/him]

Sorry that I implied that you were a quoteless wretch, Shardlet. I just do so love quoting things.

 

Actually, Shardlet, we had a discussion about this awhile back. Or was there some aspect of it that you'd like to explore further?

 

Ah, sure enough.  Those were the days of my sharding infancy and I had not strayed into the space travel and FTL stuff yet.

[Kurkistan he/him]

We have all been there Shardlet.

Heck, my first thread was analyzing WoK's literary antecedents, of all things.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Swimmingly he/him]

We have all been there Shardlet.

Heck, my first thread was analyzing WoK's literary antecedents, of all things.

Ahem... Link please?

[Kurkistan he/him]

Your Google-fu is weak, Swimmingly. 

 

Very well, if you insist.

 

EDIT: @Natans' deleted post: off by a year or so there.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Swimmingly he/him]

Your Google-fu is weak, Swimmingly.

Very well, if you insist.

EDIT: @Natans' deleted post: off by a year or so there.

My google-fu is weak - and yet, I procured the link with three words and a smiley.

[Meg]

Will Adolin duel Amaram?  Doesn't seem right politically.

Why? Amaram is a brightlord from Sadeas's princedom not Dalinar's. If Adolin is to duel Shardbearers from the other nine warcamps I don't see problems.

Except: We got a tidbit in the prologue where Gavilar and Amaram seemed to have secret conversations. So maybe Amaram is more attached to the Kholins though his loyality should be with Sadeas. If this is the case there could be a moral problem (but no political).

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Kaladin ever shattered spheres when he was doing anything, so I would be surprised if he made the connection.

 

Right, but he might remember when at the beginning (while he was unconsciously using stormlight) his gems grew dab. So he might figure the connection.

As for Shallan writing down her experiences I'm with Weiry: She would not be measuring it (as a side note: I'm still not convinced that one can measure each and every spren and therewith "capture it in place"), she is to write the events down.

I personally am not surprised to hear about Sadeas's goals. I think he might work with Taravangian (as far as we know about Taravangian from TWoK), as for their goals seem to be quite similar.

[hoser he/him]

Why? Amaram is a brightlord from Sadeas's princedom not Dalinar's. If Adolin is to duel Shardbearers from the other nine warcamps I don't see problems.

Except: We got a tidbit in the prologue where Gavilar and Amaram seemed to have secret conversations. So maybe Amaram is more attached to the Kholins though his loyality should be with Sadeas. If this is the case there could be a moral problem (but no political).

Much as I really want to see it, I thought polically there were two problems.

1. Amaram has a reputation as being a decent brightlord, rather than pondscum like Sadeas.
2. Amaram is a hero as a nonShardbearer that defeated a Shardbearer.  This is an ideal that many share. 

We know better, but unless word gets out about what he did, punishing him would be unpopular. 

[DocHoliday he/him]

I was really thinking about Adolin during everyone for their Shards, I really really like this idea. Until I thought about what the counterattack is going to be. Adolin can readily defend himself. But there is another Kholin who doesn't have the first clue how to win a duel. Renarin.

 

Tradition is that you can duel for these Shards, but I seriously doubt that it's too the first Shattered piece of Plate. I think Sadeas or another High Prince is going to fight Renarin, and if he doesn't kill him, I think he'll be maimed at least.

 

Don't hate me feather. This is a real possibility.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I highly doubt Renarin would accept a duel against someone. Adolin might just go after whoever tried.

 

Not to mention, I have a feeling that it wouldn't really be a decisive blow against the Kholins to say "Oh well, I can't fight the good one, so I'm going to go after the younger, untrained brother who everyone knows has a blood weakness. That'll show them not to mess me."

[Morsk he/him]

DocHoliday, on 25 Jan 2014 - 12:34 AM, said:

Tradition is that you can duel for these Shards, but I seriously doubt that it's too the first Shattered piece of Plate. I think Sadeas or another High Prince is going to fight Renarin, and if he doesn't kill him, I think he'll be maimed at least.

Don't hate me feather. This is a real possibility.

Maiming isn't that bad. We're almost certain Regrowth can fix it, because we know Feruchemy can.

I'd rather see Adolin maimed and have a role reversal with Renarin though!

[QuantumHarmonix he/him]

I have a scenario in my head where Adolin is poisoned before he is supposed to fight Sadeas' champion. If he doesn't fight the Kholin's will be forced to forfeit their shards, so Renarin volunteers to be the Kholin's champion. But at the last minute they reveal Sadeas's champion to be Amaram, which causes Kaladin to take Renarin's place. Preferably with Kaladin wearing the plate of one of the Kholin brothers so nobody realizes the switch right away. The fight would end when Kaladin unlocks the plates true form with all the glowing symbols. 

[DocHoliday he/him]

If Renarin is able to back down from a duel, then what would stop any Highprince from refusing Adolin? Kind of a major plot hole if BS plans to seriously use this idea.

 

 

Not to mention, I have a feeling that it wouldn't really be a decisive blow against the Kholins to say "Oh well, I can't fight the good one, so I'm going to go after the younger, untrained brother who everyone knows has a blood weakness. That'll show them not to mess me."

Actually that is  exactly  what a devious minded Sadeas would do. He is more than cunning enough to hit the weak link in the chain and destabilize the Kholins first. Decisive? No. But it's an opening move, and even if he chose not to strike preemptively, it's still a knife to the throat.  

Think of drug lords. If they want you to do something, or NOT do something, they go for your family.

[QuantumHarmonix he/him]

If Renarin is able to back down from a duel, then what would stop any Highprince from refusing Adolin? Kind of a major plot hole if BS plans to seriously use this idea.

 

 

Actually that is  exactly  what a devious minded Sadeas would do. He is more than cunning enough to hit the weak link in the chain and destabilize the Kholins first. Decisive? No. But it's an opening move, and even if he chose not to strike preemptively, it's still a knife to the throat.  

Think of drug lords. If they want you to do something, or NOT do something, they go for your family.

I seem to remember they talked about how to force the Highprinces into accepting the duels, because they thought it was a real possibility that they would refuse to duel Adolin for shards. And as gut wrenching as targeting Renarin would be, you can't deny that it would be somewhat effective. The only reason to not do it, is if you fear the retaliation that would engender. 

[don_karma_II he/him]

 “Each order reportedly had access to two of the Surges, with overlap between them. We call the powers Surgebinding. Soulcasting was one, and is what we share, though our orders are different.” - Jasnah, Chapter 3 WoR. (Emphasis mine)

 

Who is we? Is she in cahoots with someone else? Does she know someone else from other orders?

[don_karma_II he/him]

Though Ivory won’t speak of it, I gather that what he’s done is regarded as a betrayal by the others of his kind.” -  Jasnah, Chapter 3 WoR

 

 “I was forbidden. I came anyway. To find you.” - Syl, Chapter 9 WoR

 

So Syl was not the only spren who was forbidden to bond with humans, Ivory was forbidden too. Hmm.. But still Wyndle and Pattern were sent by the spren to bond with humans!!

 

Can it be that sprens who are more inclined towards honour are forbidden by storm father and sprens who are more inclined towards cultivation have their own choice as mother has given up on humans and don't care anymore?

[hoser he/him]

 “Each order reportedly had access to two of the Surges, with overlap between them. We call the powers Surgebinding. Soulcasting was one, and is what we share, though our orders are different.” - Jasnah, Chapter 3 WoR. (Emphasis mine)

 

Who is we? Is she in cahoots with someone else? Does she know someone else from other orders?

Shallan is the someone else.  "We" is Jasnah (Elsecaller) and Shallan (Lightweaver?).