hoser he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Maybe if you soulcast without knowing what you're creating, it defaults to the ten essences or even the essence most related to your order (hint: Shallan goblet->blood). This is not to say that you couldn't do something more sophisticated if you knew what you were doing, but mistakes or ambiguity might drag your creation toward the default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Maybe if you soulcast without knowing what you're creating, it defaults to the ten essences or even the essence most related to your order (hint: Shallan goblet->blood). This is not to say that you couldn't do something more sophisticated if you knew what you were doing, but mistakes or ambiguity might drag your creation toward the default. I think blood was the result of the garnet, not her order. I think you can only soulcast things with the gems made of the essenses - so blood and water bother use garnets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Some more thoughts on the identity of smokestone: 1) I agree that it is unlikely to be obisidian. As Shardlet pointed out its not a crystal, and it would be strange for nine of the polestones to be crystals and the last to be a glass. Also Dalinar uses obsidian in a description in the Purelake vision, if obsidian=smokestone he would have said the latter. As for the volcanic activity required to make obisidian... Plate tectonics aren't a factor on the super continent but there are probably a few geologic hot spots where volcanoes would form. 2) I also don't think smokestone would be unique to Roshar/formed through a process we don't have on Earth. This kind of goes back to my point above, it would be really strange for nine of the polestones to be formed one way and the last a different way. 3) I also think, like Windy suggests, that we can discount it being "magical" in nature (like atium). In TFE they remark that "atium is different and that it doesn't really fit" whereas smokestone does. I personally think it is just smokey quartz, like the link I supplied in my previous posts suggests. On the soulcasting of "new" things: Soulcasting, especially soulcasting of non-Essences, requires an intimate understanding of the desired result. It wasn't enough to know "strawberries exist" when Jasnah was trying to soulcast the jam. She had no clue what it was supposed to be like and so it turned out horribly. Though here's a thought, perhaps in a way it is like Forgery? The more "plausible" the soulcasting result is the more likely it is for it to work? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromptj he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Would onyx fit the description of smokestone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Some more thoughts on the identity of smokestone: 1) I agree that it is unlikely to be obisidian. As Shardlet pointed out its not a crystal, and it would be strange for nine of the polestones to be crystals and the last to be a glass. Also Dalinar uses obsidian in a description in the Purelake vision, if obsidian=smokestone he would have said the latter. As for the volcanic activity required to make obisidian... Plate tectonics aren't a factor on the super continent but there are probably a few geologic hot spots where volcanoes would form. 2) I also don't think smokestone would be unique to Roshar/formed through a process we don't have on Earth. This kind of goes back to my point above, it would be really strange for nine of the polestones to be formed one way and the last a different way. 3) I also think, like Windy suggests, that we can discount it being "magical" in nature (like atium). In TFE they remark that "atium is different and that it doesn't really fit" whereas smokestone does. I personally think it is just smokey quartz, like the link I supplied in my previous posts suggests. On the soulcasting of "new" things: Soulcasting, especially soulcasting of non-Essences, requires an intimate understanding of the desired result. It wasn't enough to know "strawberries exist" when Jasnah was trying to soulcast the jam. She had no clue what it was supposed to be like and so it turned out horribly. Though here's a thought, perhaps in a way it is like Forgery? The more "plausible" the soulcasting result is the more likely it is for it to work? Did she have the appropriate gem for "plant matter" at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Some more thoughts on the identity of smokestone: 1) I agree that it is unlikely to be obisidian. As Shardlet pointed out its not a crystal, and it would be strange for nine of the polestones to be crystals and the last to be a glass. Also Dalinar uses obsidian in a description in the Purelake vision, if obsidian=smokestone he would have said the latter. As for the volcanic activity required to make obisidian... Plate tectonics aren't a factor on the super continent but there are probably a few geologic hot spots where volcanoes would form. 2) I also don't think smokestone would be unique to Roshar/formed through a process we don't have on Earth. This kind of goes back to my point above, it would be really strange for nine of the polestones to be formed one way and the last a different way. 3) I also think, like Windy suggests, that we can discount it being "magical" in nature (like atium). In TFE they remark that "atium is different and that it doesn't really fit" whereas smokestone does. I personally think it is just smokey quartz, like the link I supplied in my previous posts suggests. On the soulcasting of "new" things: Soulcasting, especially soulcasting of non-Essences, requires an intimate understanding of the desired result. It wasn't enough to know "strawberries exist" when Jasnah was trying to soulcast the jam. She had no clue what it was supposed to be like and so it turned out horribly. Though here's a thought, perhaps in a way it is like Forgery? The more "plausible" the soulcasting result is the more likely it is for it to work? Plausability doesn't seem to have anything to do with it, here. Soulcasting doesn't rewrite a things history, because a goblet could never have a different history that would make it blood. Although you could argue that soulcasting something into the pure form of an Essence for which you have the gemstone is more plausible than soulcasting something into something just a bit removed from the Essence. Jam is an abstraction of food, which is an abstraction of the plants essence (Pulp). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Soulcasting, especially soulcasting of non-Essences, requires an intimate understanding of the desired result. It wasn't enough to know "strawberries exist" when Jasnah was trying to soulcast the jam. She had no clue what it was supposed to be like and so it turned out horribly. Though here's a thought, perhaps in a way it is like Forgery? The more "plausible" the soulcasting result is the more likely it is for it to work? Yes and if she tried to soulcast gold or lead but didn't have a clue about what this metal are she could end with another metal with high density? Or even something interelly diferent ? The horribly jam aren't something desired or default, or even something that could exist naturally. Edited January 16, 2014 by Natans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Plausability doesn't seem to have anything to do with it, here. Soulcasting doesn't rewrite a things history, because a goblet could never have a different history that would make it blood. Not the plausibility I was talking about. I did not mean to imply that had anything to do with an objects history, just the laws of the cosmere. The conversation had been on "can you soulcast something that doesn't exist", and my point was "if it could plausibly exist in the cosmere you might be able to, if it couldn't plausibly exist probably not". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yes and if she tried to soulcast gold or lead but didn't have a clue about what this metal are she could end with another metal with high density? Or even something interelly diferent ? The horribly jam aren't something desired or default, or even something that could exist naturally. I think Shallan's going to excellent at Soulcasting things, given that she's an artist - while Jasnah certainly practical about using it, Shallan will make extraordinary things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I agree with Weiry that smokestone is likely smokey quartz. As to onyx, I again cite its opacity as leading away from its likelihood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I'm pretty sure it's not like Atium, because if it were then it would be outside the base system, leaving us with nine polestones and a very confusing surge arrangement for the orders. Plus I would expect it to produce a more exotic effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Just food for thought, the Spanish translation of WOK uses smoky quartz every time it says Smokestone. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Just food for thought, the Spanish translation of WOK uses smoky quartz every time it says Smokestone.That sounds right. It looks smoky, it's crystal, it says "smoky quartz" in other translations. It. Is. Smokey Quartz." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday he/him Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Indeed, but this make me wonder what really are the limitsof soulcast create. A person could "invent" something that didn't existed naturally, let say soulcaste a fruit with a unique flavor, or you could only create thing that would know ? I get the sense that you have to know what you're soulcasting, particularly if it isn't one of the Essences. , with enough chemistry knowledge they might be able to create molecules that cannot be produced by chemistry You couldn't create somemthing with soulcasting that doesn't exist in the Cognitive Realm. Jasnah has Soul-casted strawberry jam into a horrible organic compound of unknown origins. All she knew was what color, and presumably that it was a sweet tart flavor. She obviously failed to accomplish Soul-casting into a proper jam, however it does illustrate for us that Soul-casting into unknown foreign objects is possible. I wonder Shardlet, whether or not Jasnah Jam (new term?) had a Cognitive Aspect prior to its inception into the Physical realm, or if one was invented at the time of its creation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilKetchupCow he/him Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 spoiler alert( WOR 1-5) We Know that Jasnah Can at least create a hallway of a caste given her prologue. But I think that Shallan will be better at soul casting food and other pulp essences given her affinity and interest in nature. I think that Jasnah could create a castle pieces at a time. I don't think her recreating the floor is a limt on the amount of stormlight she had at the time, but it is a possibility. I think that is more a limitation on the strength of the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think that what you are speaking of, KetchupCow is not soulcasting. She was in Shadesmar for that and there was no difference to the hallway when she returned from Shadesmar. I think that was merely a manipulation of the cognitive aspect beads into something familiar to her so that she could effectively move and act in Shadesmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilKetchupCow he/him Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I agree that it isn't soulcasting, but I believe that ones ability to control things in shadesmar affects there ability to soulcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni he/him Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think that what you are speaking of, KetchupCow is not soulcasting. Ketchupcow isn't Ketchup soulcast into cow? I do agree that her ability to control may affect her ability to soulcast. Though Shallan seems to do it somewhat differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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