Charlie.x.3000 Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I find it ironic that, Scadrial, the most uninvested Shardworld we have seen, has the most powerful abilities. (Steel Compounding, Mistborn with F. Nicrosil compounding Nicrosil, etc). While Scadrial doesn't have true immortality, the abilities themselves are extremely strong. Perhaps this is because Preservation and Ruin actually created the humans on Scadrial, allowing the interactions with Allomancy and Fuerichemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irkutsk he/him Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wouldn't say Scadrial's Magic is any stronger than the other worlds. Awakening on Nalthis can be used to create undead armies, immortal magical humans and was used to make Nightblood. We all know what kind of power that has. Sel's form-based magics are incredibly diverse and mostly unknown to us. We know they have immortal humans as well, along with teleportation and enough magical diversity to create almost any effect they desire. Roshar... I don't think we've seen enough of their magic to really judge it, though I would dare say a Windrunner in full plate and blade could easily go toe-to-toe with a full Mistborn. The "overpowered" abilities you propose are the result of the combination of two magic systems, and thus would obviously be more powerful. But they are also extremely rare without hemalurgy (or other effects, but describing them would be BoM spoilers. I think any combination of two magic systems will create overpowered comboes like Steel or Nicrosil compounding. Heck, there's a whole thread about combining magic systems for overpowered effects on these boards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie.x.3000 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Many of the things you talk about could perhaps go even or beat a Mistborn, but against a Full Twinborn that is compounding Steel, Nicrosil, etc, they wouldn't stand a chance. Nightblood may be stonger, but all you really have to do is not get hit, which is easy for a Steel compounder. Besides, A. Nicrosil might even be able to sap the Investiture from Nightblood. But the important thing is because Preservation and Ruin are not shattered, Scadrial is overall less invested than Roshar and Sel, yet Scadrial's magic system produces stronger abilities than the other systems. Edited January 29, 2016 by Charlie.x.3000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 It all depends on what you consider as overpowered as each system has weaknesses/limitations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong he/him Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Nalthis is the least invested shardworld we've seen. Besides that, I don't think that a shardworld' predisposed magic system isn't geared towards raw killing power. I also think that you may think that Scadrial's Magic is more powerful than it is because we have seen only the begining of what other shardworld' Magic can do, and most of what the other shardworld's Magic can do is just as powerful even without mixing of powers. I think if we saw more mixing of other shardworld's Magic we would have a better understanding of how balanced the Metallic Arts are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall he/him Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Each shardworld has its strengths and weaknesses. But I wouldn't say they have different levels of power... Scadrial potentially offers compounding like the lord ruler had. You correctly note that this is absurdly powerful, but I bet I could outline instances of powers from other worlds that would rival the lord ruler's. Consider nalthis. It offers several devastating powers. We could have a returned of the tenth heightening who has awakened a blade like nightblood. Being able to animate everything nearby (pretty much regardless of color because of tenth heightening), and wielding a blade that is unstoppable while it has enough breath (which it will if the wielder is at the tenth heightening)... Such an individual would definitely be able to rival a compounder like the lord ruler. Consider sel. It also has extreme levels of power. If a clever elantrian was able to draw the right sequence of aons, they might be able to bring down a full compounder immediately. This might actually be the most powerful system there is, because on both nalthis and Scadrial the powers I listed are quite rare, but many people become elantrians on sel. Then there is Roshar. We do not have as much information as to what the limits of Rosharian power are. However, the entire order of windrunners could probably defeat the lord ruler, in all fairness. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was within the powers of one of the godspren on Roshar to kill a compounder of Scadrial, if it was their intent. So I'm not so sure if there is power disparity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilamal he/him Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I find it ironic that, Scadrial, the most uninvested Shardworld we have seen... Actually, it could be said that it is the most Invested world because it was created by the Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong he/him Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 When I said that Nalthis was the last invested major Shardworld I meant that it has the least amount of sharticles power that had been invested into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Actually, it could be said that it is the most Invested world because it was created by the Shards.Implying everything else in the cosmere doesn't appear to be made out of investiture?With that confusing issue aside it seems Adonalsium himself shaped Roshar. Edited February 2, 2016 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Implying everything else in the cosmere doesn't appear to be made out of investiture? With that confusing issue aside it seems Adonalsium himself shaped Roshar. Yeah pretty all the mondane matter is made by the same amount of Investiture I suppose. If R&P creates Scadrial at all, the only thing different is about the Intent of the Investiture used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie.x.3000 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Hmm I didn't consider that Scadrial was made by the Shards, however, I would still contend that Sel, and perhaps Roshar are more 'invested' because the shards were shattered. But I still don't think a Tenth order Awakened person with Nightblood/Nightbloodian weapons and armor could win against a Nicrosil compounding Fullborn, (considering that you could just compound so much that you became a shard, but then we have that problem of vaporizing like Vin did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Of all the systems seen I believe that Surgebinders are the most powerful. Kaladin was able to pretty much solo an army with just Stormlights passive powers and he wasn't even a full Windrunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Of all the systems seen I believe that Surgebinders are the most powerful. Kaladin was able to pretty much solo an army with just Stormlights passive powers and he wasn't even a full Windrunner. Normally I agree, but a lot of peoples point is that if you have a compounder, then they have limitless speed, strength, and healing plus all the abilities of a mistborn utterly cracked out. Even a herald moving fast with stormlight just mimics pewter speed, while a compounder literally gets bullet time. However that does not take into account the other abilities the radiants possibly have, and what those combinations will result in. So I am still hopeful lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 A single surgebinder is stronger than a combat-oriented misting, ferring, or twinborn, definitely. A surgebinder with every surge due to honorblades and whatnot is considerably less overpowered as a mistborn with full feruchemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 There seems to be a trade off between flexibility and power. If a power is easy to use, it generally isn't as precise as a more difficult power. Similar powers on different worlds demonstrate this fact. Lightweaving for Knights seems to be mostly instinctive, (Pattern isn't sure why Shallan needs to draw pictures), while on Sel, Aons can do the same thing but with far more precision. I have no idea why, but I have noticed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mail-mi he/him Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Actually, it could be said that it is the most Invested world because it was created by the Shards. Actually, Scadrial is one of the least Invested worlds. There's a WoB on it somewhere, that Scadrial is one of the least Invested, and Roshar is one of the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Recently Mister Sanderson says that in a fight Mistborn VS Radiant Knight, the outcome depends of the RK's Order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Recently Mister Sanderson says that in a fight Mistborn VS Radiant Knight, the outcome depends of the RK's Order yeah the whole vs thing is difficult because we haven't seen all the orders yet, what their abilities, and we have yet to see a full radiant in all its glory to really compare. But I believe people are talking about a fullborn (mistborn and feruchemist) being much stronger vs a radiant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Mistborn vs Knight Radiant also seems to me as something of a false comparison. As far as we know there is no way for a KR to access all ten surges, so a fair comparison would likely stop at Twinborn (two abilities compared to two Surges). Do we have a WoB that a Nicrosil Compounder would be as powerful as this discussion makes it seem? Otherwise, I would think that a Nicrosil Twinborn (N Ferring + another Allomancy ability) would likely be better in a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Mistborn vs Knight Radiant also seems to me as something of a false comparison. As far as we know there is no way for a KR to access all ten surges, so a fair comparison would likely stop at Twinborn (two abilities compared to two Surges). Do we have a WoB that a Nicrosil Compounder would be as powerful as this discussion makes it seem? Otherwise, I would think that a Nicrosil Twinborn (N Ferring + another Allomancy ability) would likely be better in a fight. There is a WoB that a knight radiant could bond multiple spren though it would be very difficult to keep all the oaths balanced without breaking one and "killing" the spren. And that is just with two spren, nonetheless ten. The other option is a knight radiant could theoretically grab and bond the other 9 honorblades and thereby have access to all the surges. But the likelihood of us ever actually seeing that happening is very doubtful (watch that ends up happening just to spite me lol). Edited February 11, 2016 by Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melriken Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 There is a WoB that a knight radiant could bond multiple spren though it would be very difficult to keep all the oaths balanced without breaking one and "killing" the spren. And that is just with two spren, nonetheless ten. The other option is a knight radiant could theoretically grab and bond the other 9 honorblades and thereby have access to all the surges. But the likelihood of us ever actually seeing that happening is very doubtful (watch that ends up happening just to spite me lol).a KR with 4 blades can do all 10 surges... Similarly only 5 oaths are required to have them all natively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Mistborn vs Knight Radiant also seems to me as something of a false comparison. As far as we know there is no way for a KR to access all ten surges, so a fair comparison would likely stop at Twinborn (two abilities compared to two Surges). On the other hand, all Surgebinders have Allomantic pewter with Gold Feruchemy (without needing to store!) as benefit of holding Stormlight. Then they also have access to two Surges, shapeshifting immediately-reacting Absurdly Sharp weapon and on top of that a very, very durable non-metal armor which doesn't hinder their movement in any way. Really, comparisions should be done only with Mistborn or Full Feruchemists. Edit: my 600th post! That makes it over 200 posts a month. Nice. Edited February 11, 2016 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 a KR with 4 blades can do all 10 surges... Similarly only 5 oaths are required to have them all natively. Riiiiiite, yeah wasn't thinking about that part, forgot the overlap. Well still stands true, though numerically different lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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