marianmi Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 just Nightblood sucking in stormlight should be enough - the honorblade wielders would run out, and won't do any surges - they just become ordinary swordsmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: So if Nalan thinks Szeth can fight Honorblade wielders (and assuming he knows what he's doing) it must grant either Surges or some comparably powerful abilities. Nightblood probably makes the wielder immune to most applied-investiture attacks like lashings, since it would just consume the infused investiture. So no adhesion or gravity surgebindings directly against Szeth would work, division probably wouldn't work either. Not sure about others. 1 hour ago, marianmi said: just Nightblood sucking in stormlight should be enough - the honorblade wielders would run out, and won't do any surges - they just become ordinary swordsmen. Would Nightblood be able to suck in stormlight from a distance though? (Warbreaker spoilers) Quote In Warbreaker, as far as I remember, it could only absorb breath from its wielder and anything it strikes, not just general surroundings. So as long as they stay a distance, they would be fine. Not sure whether it would be okay to block Nightblood with an Honorblade though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dionysus Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) If the power of nightblood scales with the power of the investiture it consumes it would be scary on Roshar. MInor spoilers for Warbreaker. A single breath is relatively week compared to just a little stormlight. I'd say when Kaladin fills with stormlight he has the equivalent of thousands of breath, and all he needs is a few more gems and he can replenish himself to full easily. I am just basing this on observation. It takes about 200 breaths to get perfect pitch, which is not really rare on earth especially in pitch based languages. Edited October 12, 2016 by dionysus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 18 minutes ago, dionysus said: If the power of nightblood scales with the power of the investiture it consumes it would be scary on Roshar. A single breath is relatively week compared to just a little stormlight. I'd say when Kaladin fills with stormlight he has the equivalent of thousands of breath, and all he needs is a few more gems and he can replenish himself to full easily. Warbeaker spoilers: Spoiler Has the breath:stormlight investiture ratio been stated or are you just basing that off of descriptions in the book? Also, discussion about breath should be spoilered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Actually I think a Breath is more Invested than you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Warbreaker spoilers: Spoiler I thought that someone on Nalthis had something like 1.3 times the Investiture of a normal human, putting a drab at 0.7, which is why they are weaker, get sick easier, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droughtbringer Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Well... WoR literally states that Szeth can be a Skybreaker, the order based on following the law to the letter, perfect for him, because of how closely he followed his Truthless punishment. Skybreakers have access to the surges of Gravitation, and Division, one that he knows, one that he doesn't. Stuff about WarBreaker: Spoiler Evil, as dictated to Nightblood is very subjective, he has no personal ethics, so this means that he can only know something is evil if he is told that it is evil by something like the law, which the Skybreakers take very seriously. In conclusion they are pretty much a perfect match, and will go well together, probably only giving Szeth access to 2 surges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) @Sasooner it's honor-derived spren that give access to surges. Nightblood won't give Szeth access to any surges. You can argue none of those Skybreakers are KR Skybreakers, but just a bunch of people one who was a Herald calls Skybreakers. They have no surges and no spren. Szeth would be the most powerful of them with Nightblood, the rest would be at best shardbearers (dead spren shards). We are yet to see a true Skybreaker KR. It would be funny I admit if a smokespren would come to Szeth and make him a Skybreaker, prompting him to leave Nale and his fake order Edited October 12, 2016 by marianmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbonator Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) What if Nightblood doesn't grant Surges, but instead grants other powers, completely unique on Roshar? And, @marianmi, have you seen this WoB? If I misunderstood what you meant by saying only honor-derived spren grant Surges, sorry. This may be a spoiler, so here you go. Spoiler It's assumed Nightblood's bond works similarly. INTERVIEW: Mar 20th, 2014 WOR Signing Report - IronCaf (Paraphrased) OUTIS If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond? BRANDON SANDERSON It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things. It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers. TAGS seon, nahel bond, roshar, Edited October 13, 2016 by Turbonator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 36 minutes ago, marianmi said: They have no surges and no spren. Szeth would be the most powerful of them with Nightblood, the rest would be at best shardbearers (dead spren shards). In Lift's interlude, she thinks she sees Darkness being awesome, which probably means he has an Honorblade rather than a dead sprenblade. Most people seem to believe he has taken his own blade from Shinovar, which does seems likely. However, Wyndle mentions that there's something weird with the weapons (plural) they have. Lift assumes he means they are shardblades, but obviously Wyndle would expect those. Instead, I think that Nale's Skybreakers have at least two Honorblades, including Taln's. Interestingly, that could potentially mean that Nale is now using Stoneward surges rather than Skybreaker ones. That would be a cool twist I think. Sorry for hijacking the thread with a minitheory, but I had been thinking about it, and this seemed a good moment to bring it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, Eki said: However, Wyndle mentions that there's something weird with the weapons (plural) they have. Lift assumes he means they are shardblades, but obviously Wyndle would expect those. Wyndle has only recently crossed into Physical Realm from Shadesmar and his memories are far from complete. His mention of the weapons being strange is in line with Syl's revulsion of the dead Shardblades. He sees weapons but at the same time those weapons are spren locked in agony and he can feel that to some level. Sees weapons + feels something spren-like = "there's something strange about those things". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) @Turbonator: Please use spoiler tags for non-SA stuff. Agree that Nightblood will give different powers though. Though we will probably have to RAFO it. On 10/12/2016 at 3:35 PM, Sasooner said: WoR literally states that Szeth can be a Skybreaker, the order based on following the law to the letter Nalan says that, but we have no idea if he's still a Skybreaker. There are very strong hints the Heralds are "getting worse" and may all be insane. Shalash defacing statues comes to mind. And Nalan stalking KRs can just as easily fit in there. I think Nalan is far too rigid -- I don't see how thnat would work well for an entire order -- they would likely be banned from various kingdoms fairly quickly. Keep in mind that as far as we can tell he is meting out vigilante justice. It's like he verifies their was a crime serious enough to justify murder and then he executes it instead of the authorities, which arguably could make him a criminal. Edited October 13, 2016 by Argel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KageNoOni Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 41 minutes ago, Argel said: Keep in mind that as far as we can tell he is meting out vigilante justice. It's like he verifies their was a crime serious enough to justify murder and then he executes it instead of the authorities, which arguably could make him a criminal. He doesn't appear to be acting as a vigilante. When chasing Lift in particular you see he is referred to as a Constable and made sure to fill out the appropriate paper work to ensure his execution is legal. That's not vigilante justice when he does the work to become a legitimate law enforcement officer with the full authority to execute criminals. While there are plenty who might have issues with what he does and how he does it, he goes out of his way to follow the law exactly. It would be hard to get justification to ban some one who never ever breaks the law. The only way to stop him at this point would be to ban capital punishment entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) But the idea is that he's hunting surgebinders, so he won't associate with them. Also, he's calling Szeth a Skybreaker and gives him a blade, so this means that he knows Szeth won't have a shardblade, so he won't have a spren, so he won't be a KR, but still he'll be a "Skybreaker". In conclusion, no, the people with Nale are not KR Skybreakers. 2 hours ago, Turbonator said: What if Nightblood doesn't grant Surges, but instead grants other powers, completely unique on Roshar? And, @marianmi, have you seen this WoB? If I misunderstood what you meant by saying only honor-derived spren grant Surges, sorry. It's assumed Nightblood's bond works similarly. INTERVIEW: Mar 20th, 2014 WOR Signing Report - IronCaf (Paraphrased) OUTIS If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond? BRANDON SANDERSON It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things. It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers. TAGS seon, nahel bond, roshar, Yes, Nightblood's bond is similar to spren, BUT Nightblood is made with investiture from Endowment (so Nightblood is an Endowment spren), while KR are bonded to Honor spren. Because of this, I believe (I might be very wrong) that they will have a different power-set. E.g. if Endowment would come to Roshar, it would have a different magic system than Honor, just like Cultivation has a different magic system than Honor and Odium has a different magic system that Honor (storm form give access to other powers than surges). EDIT: about Nale, pretty sure he does not have his own Honorblade, else who knows what would happen. I think with other Herald's blade, he is like Szeth was with the Windrunner Honorblade - can do 2 surges while using more stormlight. I think with his own Honorblade, because of Identity match, he can do more than using 2 surges. Edited October 12, 2016 by marianmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 10 hours ago, Oversleep said: Wyndle has only recently crossed into Physical Realm from Shadesmar and his memories are far from complete. His mention of the weapons being strange is in line with Syl's revulsion of the dead Shardblades. He sees weapons but at the same time those weapons are spren locked in agony and he can feel that to some level. Sees weapons + feels something spren-like = "there's something strange about those things". Except we can be pretty sure at least one of the blades is an Honorblade, since Nale used stormlight. I'm also unsure if spren can "sense" each other like that. Syl and Pattern never seemed to, at least. They were never in blade form close to the other though, so maybe that would make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Eki said: I'm also unsure if spren can "sense" each other like that. Syl and Pattern never seemed to, at least. Actually they did, at Adolin's duel. Edited October 13, 2016 by marianmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, marianmi said: Actually they did, at Adolin's duel. From the way I read it, Syl actually SAW Pattern there. There were many situations where they were much closer to each other without sensing the other, I'm pretty sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, Eki said: From the way I read it, Syl actually SAW Pattern there. There were many situations where they were much closer to each other without sensing the other, I'm pretty sure. Yes, saw. Similar with the shardblades. They *see* the shardblades, they *know* what they're supposed to be (spren), yet they see there's something wrong (don't glow like they should). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, marianmi said: Yes, saw. Similar with the shardblades. They *see* the shardblades, they *know* what they're supposed to be (spren), yet they see there's something wrong (don't glow like they should). I mean saw, as in, saw a bunch of scribbly lines tumbling across some surface, without knowing for sure what it was. And if a spren can sense another spren in blade form, that could just as well be an argument for my theory. Wyndle knew what they were supposed to be (spren), but he couldn't sense any in them. The theory that has already been proposed a long time ago is that Nale has an Honorblade. That seems likely, for the reasons I have already stated. My theory is that the other Blade we see is an Honorblade too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, Eki said: I mean saw, as in, saw a bunch of scribbly lines tumbling across some surface, without knowing for sure what it was. And if a spren can sense another spren in blade form, that could just as well be an argument for my theory. Wyndle knew what they were supposed to be (spren), but he couldn't sense any in them. The theory that has already been proposed a long time ago is that Nale has an Honorblade. That seems likely, for the reasons I have already stated. My theory is that the other Blade we see is an Honorblade too. I agree Nale has a honorblade. Also I bet it's not his. But the other i think it's a "normal" shardblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 16 hours ago, Argel said: I think Nalan is far too rigid -- I don't see how that would work well for an entire order -- they would likely be banned from various kingdoms fairly quickly. Keep in mind that as far as we can tell he is meting out vigilante justice. It's like he verifies their was a crime serious enough to justify murder and then he executes it instead of the authorities, which arguably could make him a criminal. The rigidity could be a result of getting worse, or perhaps the Oaths provide a bit more wiggle room to interpret the law. Actually, he could have a predisposed interpretation of law that makes him seem rigid because he only really seems to aim for one goal. He just uses the law to get what he wants. He does act like a vigilante yes. Perhaps he is used to the authority granted by being the "Herald of Justice" and goes wherever/does whatever he wants to (within legal boundaries of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garglemesh he/him Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Quote Szeth hesitated, then knelt down and took the sphere. It was odd, unlike any he’d seen before. Though it was completely dark, it seemed to glow somehow. With a light that was black. Quote He had not seen a sword with a metal sheath before. And who sheathed a Shardblade? And the Blade itself . . . was it black? An inch or so of it had emerged from the sheath as it slid on the rocks. Szeth swore he could see a small trail of black smoke coming off the metal. Like Stormlight, only dark. I'll take "Things that are oddly dark" for 500. I wonder if they're related. Szeth is there for both of these, but in his defense the next line is, "Hello, would you like to destroy some evil today?" and drop curtain. So we didn't get to see Szeth's reaction, which could have been "Gee, this sure looks a lot like a crystalline sphere I once hid away, by order of a guy I murdered". It's like the sphere has been infused with Nightblood's dark stormlight. Weird stuff, I'd say. Weird stuff indeed. Quote Can't figure out how to delete this on my phone. Oh well. Might as well leave a cool quote here: Something stirred inside of Lift. Like the little swirls of wind at the advent of a storm. Darkness looked at her with a sharp motion. “Something is—” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Garglemesh said: I'll take "Things that are oddly dark" for 500. I wonder if they're related. Szeth is there for both of these, but in his defense the next line is, "Hello, would you like to destroy some evil today?" and drop curtain. So we didn't get to see Szeth's reaction, which could have been "Gee, this sure looks a lot like a crystalline sphere I once hid away, by order of a guy I murdered". It's like the sphere has been infused with Nightblood's dark stormlight. Weird stuff, I'd say. Weird stuff indeed. They are not related. Warbreaker spoilers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, Eki said: I mean saw, as in, saw a bunch of scribbly lines tumbling across some surface, without knowing for sure what it was. Yeah, I mean, Shallan has been around Kaladin while Syl was still around (on patrol and when Shallan arrives at the Shattered Plains), so if they could sense each other, then there should have been a scene with Pattern and/or Syl complaining about the other one. Also, assuming Renarin is a Truthwatcher, Syl should have notice his spren. I assume Shallan and Renarin had to meet at some point as well, even if off-page, so Pattern would have had a chance to notice. 22 hours ago, KageNoOni said: He doesn't appear to be acting as a vigilante. When chasing Lift in particular you see he is referred to as a Constable and made sure to fill out the appropriate paper work to ensure his execution is legal. Yeah, but was he a real Constable? And did he apply to become one as the himself? Did he truly qualify for that position (e.g. could being a a citizen of that country be a pre-requisite)? Did he come in at a lower position and work his way up to constable?? And how many countries does he need to do something like that in? And does he report to work like everyone else? It really feels more like he's assuming being a Skybreaker and/or the Herald of Justice covers that and is just making sure that the rest is actually valid for that country. But the reality is that it is vigilante justice. Edited October 13, 2016 by Argel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeros Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 He's not an honor blade nor designed to mimic one so why we would he grant the same abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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