Random Stuff IX: Rogue Admins

[Oversleep]

Cursed Child: *casts a black actor as Hermione Granger* 

Internet: HOW DARE SHE DEVIATE FROM THE BOOKS THAT NEVER EXPLICITLY MENTIONED HERMIONE'S SKIN COLOR 

Me: 

 

Great Noodly One. I don't intend to see or read the play, but this is just ridiculous. 

I have to disagree with you here.

IIRC, every character who was black was mentioned as being black. So to assume out of nowhere that Hermione was in fact black is grasping at straws for me.

 

I wonder why didn't Rowling just say that theater can do whatever they want instead of going the route "The books don't mention her skin color". But the fact is that the books mention skin color of black people every time, Hermione's skin doesn't get any mention and she's a main character, so it surely would have been mentioned... do the math.

Anyway, theater is this magical place where no one bats an eye when an old man is playing a young lady, when 5 very different actors play the same character et cetera. So she could have just said "Theater does what they want" and everybody would have been fine (well, everybody apart from some idiots). But no, she just decided to contradict what she wrote. Perhaps it was another plot to gain some spotlight, like she occasionaly says things like "Hermione was to end up in relationship with Harry" and so on.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Oversleep

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

I have to disagree with you here.

IIRC, every character who was black was mentioned as being black. So to assume out of nowhere that Hermione was in fact black is grasping at straws for me.

 

I wonder why didn't Rowling just say that theater can do whatever they want instead of going the route "The books don't mention her skin color". But the fact is that the books mention skin color of black people every time, Hermione's skin doesn't get any mention and she's a main character, so it surely would have been mentioned... do the math.

Anyway, theater is this magical place where no one bats an eye when an old man is playing a young lady, when 5 very different actors play the same character et cetera. So she could have just said "Theater does what they want" and everybody would have been fine (well, everybody apart from some idiots). But no, she just decided to contradict what she wrote. Perhaps it was another plot to gain some spotlight, like she occasionaly says things like "Hermione was to end up in relationship with Harry" and so on.

 

The only thing it contradicts is the assumption that white is the default skin color. 

 

Maybe my impatience with the controversy stems from the fact that ​I don't see what the big deal is. Rowling isn't directly contradicting what she wrote; she's adding something that wasn't there but could have been. She isn't retconning major plot points, like saying that Harry was protected not by his mother's love but by microscopic Nargles in his blood or something equally Lucasy. She's challenging the assumption that a main character's skin color was white and not black, and I don't see that as a factor that diminishes my enjoyment or understanding of the original series. 

[Chaos he/him]

No rush in my case. Like I said before, it's still a ridiculously high number, and the main reason I noticed is because I was about to beat Kobold.

As expected there's nothing in the admin logs that suggest anyone change that (which is good; I make sure admins don't pull that stuff as jokes. It's not funny). Probably some kind of glitch, but I imagine the rep counts will be a bit different in the new site regardless.

[Delightful]

No rush in my case. Like I said before, it's still a ridiculously high number, and the main reason I noticed is because I was about to beat Kobold.

Hey, that's an important goal.

[Oversleep]

The only thing it contradicts is the assumption that white is the default skin color.

Well, because it kinda is. Unless you set the story in Japan, or Kazachstan, or Kongo or somewhere where white isn't default skin color. The last I checked, England had majority of white skin color.

People tend to see things like that as "default unless noted otherwise". No mention for Hermione = she's white, especially when all the black characters get mentioned as being black. It's clear she was intended to be white, furtherly reinforced by casting Watson in the films. Rowling would have surely said something then, if Hermione was black.

At that point, I'd want to remind you that I'm not arguing that it's bad casting choice, I'm arguing that Rowling contradicts her books.

Maybe my impatience with the controversy stems from the fact that ​I don't see what the big deal is. Rowling isn't directly contradicting what she wrote; she's adding something that wasn't there but could have been. She isn't retconning major plot points, like saying that Harry was protected not by his mother's love but by microscopic Nargles in his blood or something equally Lucasy. She's challenging the assumption that a main character's skin color was white and not black, and I don't see that as a factor that diminishes my enjoyment or understanding of the original series.

The way I see things, it isn't about casting black person as Hermione as much as Rowling going "hey I didn't really write her as white" which she rather clearly did. People are mad that she once again messes with the books. The whole issue would be a lot less heated if she just said that she has no problems with the casting choice. But then she started to mess with the books and, given my interactions with the HP fandom, that's not to be taken lightly.

 

(I'm well aware that there are also regular racists in that debate, but I don't care about them.)

----

Funny thing: In Earthsea, it's white people who get mentioned for their skin color (since default is red-brown) and nobody tries to argue that Sparrowhawk could have been white since his skin wasn't mentioned.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

An issue I have with Rowling is that she likes to take credit for being progressive without doing the actual work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Hermione being black or Dumbledore being gay...In fact, if not specified a reader can project whatever default they want.

But that's the reader, not Rowling. She had plenty of times to clarify Hermione's race (particularly when she was being consulted for the movies!) but only gave credence to the idea after someone else came up with it.

It just seems that sometimes Rowling is only progressive when it is good for her image or her brand.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

An issue I have with Rowling is that she likes to take credit for being progressive without doing the actual work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Hermione being black or Dumbledore being gay...In fact, if not specified a reader can project whatever default they want.

But that's the reader, not Rowling. She had plenty of times to clarify Hermione's race (particularly when she was being consulted for the movies!) but only gave credence to the idea after someone else came up with it.

It just seems that sometimes Rowling is only progressive when it is good for her image or her brand.

I see your point. (And let me reiterate what everyone has said a million times: Sharders continue to impress with their ability to argue without flaming. ) And Noodly One knows I have enough issues with Rowling at the moment, so I suppose I saw this change as one of the smaller, less irksome ones. Not saying it is or isn't; just that it's the way I saw it. So I was annoyed at Rowling for a completely different reason.

[Delightful]

Well, because it kinda is. Unless you set the story in Japan, or Kazachstan, or Kongo or somewhere where white isn't default skin color. The last I checked, England had majority of white skin color.

People tend to see things like that as "default unless noted otherwise". No mention for Hermione = she's white, especially when all the black characters get mentioned as being black. It's clear she was intended to be white, furtherly reinforced by casting Watson in the films. Rowling would have surely said something then, if Hermione was black.

At that point, I'd want to remind you that I'm not arguing that it's bad casting choice, I'm arguing that Rowling contradicts her books.

The way I see things, it isn't about casting black person as Hermione as much as Rowling going "hey I didn't really write her as white" which she rather clearly did. People are mad that she once again messes with the books. The whole issue would be a lot less heated if she just said that she has no problems with the casting choice. But then she started to mess with the books and, given my interactions with the HP fandom, that's not to be taken lightly.

(I'm well aware that there are also regular racists in that debate, but I don't care about them.)

----

Funny thing: In Earthsea, it's white people who get mentioned for their skin color (since default is red-brown) and nobody tries to argue that Sparrowhawk could have been white since his skin wasn't mentioned.

Ok, so, I'm white*, when I picture a character my default is white. Is that because the general society I live in is white, or because I imagine the characters to reflect myself? If the former, oversleep has a point that British people are broadly speaking white. If the latter, well, then anyone unspecified would probably be the race of the reader.

*I've actually seen some interesting discussion as to wether Jewish Ashkenazi is the same as white re white privilege etc. Buut that's a totally different discussion.

[Mestiv he/him]

Ok, so, I'm white*, when I picture a character my default is white. Is that because the general society I live in is white, or because I imagine the characters to reflect myself? If the former, oversleep has a point that British people are broadly speaking white. If the latter, well, then anyone unspecified would probably be the race of the reader.

*I've actually seen some interesting discussion as to wether Jewish Ashkenazi is the same as white re white privilege etc. Buut that's a totally different discussion.

 

If the book happened in Nigeria or any other country that I'm aware has majority of black people, I would assume black as a default. When I was reading World War Z, there were parts about a Japanese otaku, I've obviously assumed he's Asian despite I don't remember reading any description of him. If Hermione's name wasn't Granger but Namaka, I'd think twice before assuming her race, but Granger sound British, she's British, so she was white to me... Also, most black people have black hair, and if I recall correctly, her's were described as brown?

 

What I'm trying to say is that most of us probably assume some traits of characters like race, height etc. based on our knowledge about the environment those characters are from. Not based on ourselves or people around us, but on that we'd expect from a typical person in the world of the book. Unless author gives us some other information, obviously.

[Oversleep]

I'd like the person who downvoted my two last posts here to speak up. Not that I'm particularly sad at my rep going down, but if you want to tell me something, please do so. You can PM me or anything, I am not sure what of the things I said deserved a downvote.

 

Also, upvote for Mestiv, since that's what I wanted to say.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Oversleep

[Chaos he/him]

I'd like the person who downvoted my two last posts here to speak up. Not that I'm particularly sad at my rep going down, but if you want to tell me something, please do so. You can PM me or anything, I am not sure what of the things I said deserved a downvote.

 

Also, upvote for Mestiv, since that's what I wanted to say.

They are under no obligation to do so and I find it inappropriate to demand someone to explain themselves. This will be codified in updated reputation rules (which will finally be done post new site, sorry it has been forever). People shouldn't downvote purely out of disagreement, but there are also of plenty of other reasons to downvote and that is their right. It is very, very inappropriate to do what you are demanding, however. Rep equalizes; yours will be equalized as well to represent the proper community average.

Thus, the matter is closed and we should not discuss it anymore and stay on topic (though random as it may be).

EDIT: This might be a pet peeve of mine, but I honestly find that such demands are far more offensive than the mere act of downvoting. They do not need to reveal themselves. That's up to them. You don't get to shame them.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Chaos

[Oversleep]

They are under no obligation to do so and I find it inappropriate to demand someone to explain themselves. This will be codified in updated reputation rules (which will finally be done post new site, sorry it has been forever). People shouldn't downvote purely out of disagreement, but there are also of plenty of other reasons to downvote and that is their right. It is very, very inappropriate to do what you are demanding, however. Rep equalizes; yours will be equalized as well to represent the proper community average.

Thus, the matter is closed and we should not discuss it anymore and stay on topic (though random as it may be).

EDIT: This might be a pet peeve of mine, but I honestly find that such demands are far more offensive than the mere act of downvoting. They do not need to reveal themselves. That's up to them. You don't get to shame them.

I am not shaming anyone. I am not even demanding anything.

I just expressed a desire to know what of the things I said was so wrong. I tried to make my point as unoffensively and calm as I could. Since people don't downvote just out of disagreement, I must have said something which was offending to someone and I want to know what. What's inappropriate about that?

 

If somebody was so hurt or offended that chose to downvote me... Haven't you thought that maybe I want to apologise to them or explain my point better? That's offensive to you?

 

Also, I don't care about my reputation, I even said that in my post, why are you bringing it up?

 

My pet peeve are people in power who try to silence people who disagree with them. So I think your saying "the matter is closed and we should not discuss it anymore" is inappropriate.

[Chaos he/him]

I am not shaming anyone. I am not even demanding anything.

I just expressed a desire to know what of the things I said was so wrong. I tried to make my point as unoffensively and calm as I could. Since people don't downvote just out of disagreement, I must have said something which was offending to someone and I want to know what. What's inappropriate about that?

 

If somebody was so hurt or offended that chose to downvote me... Haven't you thought that maybe I want to apologise to them or explain my point better? That's offensive to you?

 

Also, I don't care about my reputation, I even said that in my post, why are you bringing it up?

 

My pet peeve are people in power who try to silence people who disagree with them. So I think your saying "the matter is closed and we should not discuss it anymore" is inappropriate.

If they desire to say so, then they will. You are welcome to apologize. But we need to preserve the anonymity of the reputation system, as if they wish to stay anonymous, then that is their right.

I can understand why you want to know why you are downvoted, but this is not the way to do it. If they wish to tell you, they can. But it's not required. You will have to stay in the dark, unless they wish to explain themselves. But yes, I do find it distasteful to ask why. It's not egregious, and it is definitely not egregious the way you did it.

What I wish to avoid is that whenever anyone gets downvoted, people do pipe up in the topic and do want to know why. It is distracting for discussion because they do not have to. Thus, we have decided to take a hard line basically whenever something like this would occur, and simply saying that, hey, we should not do that. This has caused a lot of topics to derailed in the past, and long conversations about the reputation system that always end the same. Therefore, I'll generally default to this stance. Complaining about downvotes, or asking downvoters to reveal themselves will be prohibited. You are welcome to discuss matters of reputation abuse with me or anyone else on the staff, should it exist.

In the past, I have absolutely seen conversations like this go in the realm of shaming people who give downvotes. They are demanding. They get extremely upset. And though you were reasonable, I obviously will need to enforce things equally. Though I can understand that you see this as silencing you, it is also necessary to protect the system in general. Essentially, to protect the ones who are already silent.

You are of course welcome to discuss this with me in PM.

[Kobold King he/him]

Hey TwiLyght. The Queen Mother said to tell you that Continuum was actually a pretty good who towards the end. She wound up really liking it and thought you should give it a chance some time, since she bad-mouthed it in front of you when you passed through before.

 

Guess that goes for everyone else reading this too. I didn't watch it, but it's about time travel so how bad could it be?

[Mistrunner]

Do you ever find yourself laughing at something funny or generally feeling content with life when out of the blue a really sad song starts playing in your head and you want to curl up in a corner with a blanket and a tub of ice cream for no reason whatsoever?

"Ha, that's a funny..."

"You have torn it all apart, I'm watching it... buuuuuuuuurn..."

"Never mind, I'm going to go lie down and contemplate human existence."

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Hey TwiLyght. The Queen Mother said to tell you that Continuum was actually a pretty good who towards the end. She wound up really liking it and thought you should give it a chance some time, since she bad-mouthed it in front of you when you passed through before.

 

Guess that goes for everyone else reading this too. I didn't watch it, but it's about time travel so how bad could it be?

 

I'll add it to my list, then. (Though be warned: It's a rather long list that never seems to grow any smaller. After growing up with Twimom and Twidad, I've got a lot of catching up to do in the entertainment department. ) 

 

And if a time-travel show is that bad, I guess they can just go in time and make sure it never sucked? Unless it's on a stable time loop and the future is already in the past and the present is clipping its toenails…..I'll stop now before this metaphor gains sentience.  

[The Honor Spren she/her]

Do you ever find yourself laughing at something funny or generally feeling content with life when out of the blue a really sad song starts playing in your head and you want to curl up in a corner with a blanket and a tub of ice cream for no reason whatsoever?

"Ha, that's a funny..."

"You have torn it all apart, I'm watching it... buuuuuuuuurn..."

"Never mind, I'm going to go lie down and contemplate human existence."

Yes. That happened to me just the other day with This Isn't the End by Owl City.

Edited June 6, 2016 by The Honor Spren

[Sunbird she/her]

Speaking of mental soundtracks... I've found that if ever I zone out for a little while, most of the time when I come back to reality I start humming Coldplay's "Viva la Vida."

[Delightful]

There's this Hebrew song called Shir Hayonah, and I would absentmindedly hum it for years, even though it wasn't a song a listened to much. It was weird.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

For me, that song is Frosty the Snowman.   It sneaks up on me the most in July.

[Sunbird she/her]

For me, that song is Frosty the Snowman.   It sneaks up on me the most in July.

 

There are certain Christmas songs (and some entire albums, really) that I listen to year-round. Trans-Siberian Orchestra's "Carol of the Bells" and "Wizards in Winter" and Mike Tompkins's

are among them.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

For me, its a song about an actual cannibal.

[Oversleep]

Sea shanties. It's the worst when I can't remember a line.

[Kaymyth she/her]

OK, I just had a conversation with two coworkers and learned that neither of them have ever heard of Depeche Mode.

 

I AM SO OLD I AM GONNA CRY NOW

[Mestiv he/him]

OK, I just had a conversation with two coworkers and learned that neither of them have ever heard of Depeche Mode.

I AM SO OLD I AM GONNA CRY NOW

And then, when you'd be done with crying, you'll enjoy the silence, right?