Long Game 21: To Reforge a God

[Elbereth she/her]

@Elbereth, Sorry for not chiming in on whether Shards should pass their Shards or not. Honestly, I've been focusing on getting a solid lynch target rather than game mechanics, which is what I generally focus on on Day 1. So, I don't yet have an opinion on what the Shards should do, but I will almost assuredly go through the rules and form an opinion on this, because it does seem to be an important topic that needs to be discussed. Here's my initial thoughts though, I guess. Hoid knows who the Shards are. So, those players will most likely be targets for the 17th Shard.

Sure. Focusing on a lynch for D1 does make a lot of sense. I look forward to more thoughts later, then.

So when I write long posts like that my thoughts tend to get jumbled or I'll end up rereading them and editing some words in favor others for the sake of sentence variety so I think that's one of the situations where what I originally meant to say got lost somewhere. What I was saying is that I can see the "I wouldn't have done this if I was evil" thing being something an eliminator would do if they made a move (an example of what I mean would be like Mailliw in QF14 where he claimed to have used a Ledger on you and discovered that you were Corrupt. If it turned out he was evil and he said that simply to keep people off his back for making a really big mistake then yes, I'd agree that's suspicious. But in my case I haven't done anything that has harmed the village, so I don't really understand the votes on me / the reasoning that me saying why would I be this active as an eliminator is suspicious.

Ah, okay. I still think your use of the argument at all is somewhat suspicious regardless of whether you'd done anything, but I see what you're saying now.

I did bring it up again to see if more people would add their thoughts. Original Shardholders (apart from Odium and Autonomy) are basically guaranteed villagers, so I think if I were a Shardholder I would get with another and offer them my Shard as a means to consolidate them. This is dangerous because of that person ends up getting attacked by Odium or the 17th Shard that's not one lost but two (or more) but at the same time it's safer because they're spread out less, and unlike passing them to Shardless players there's no chance of them not being aligned to the Shardic Coalition. Really I would say if you're going to pass your Shard to another Shardholder, do it to a someone who has some form of protection or is unlikely to be attacked anytime soon, or give it to a Shardless player that you have very good reason to trust.

You did bring it up, but you didn't actually give your own opinion on it. Which I was going to mention as a point against you, actually, but that point's invalidated now.

The biggest problem I see with your suggestion is finding another Shard to give yours to. Shards don't start out knowing other Shards' identities, and they have no reason to share. So I don't know how that'd work. (Plus, it's difficult to guarantee that someone claiming a Shard actually has one, even if you do find one. How do you know you're not just giving it to a 17th Sharder?)

Secondly, the whole point of my suggestion was to broaden the pool of people who could have Shards. Your suggestion does not do that, at all. It keeps the same pool of people to target and potentially kill.

QF15 is complete. Elbereth was Rem from the start (and she received the first vote in the game). The reason I voted for Mark was because Lopen and I had a very short discussion about how often the first vote in these games is on an eliminator (honestly it happens quite a lot). The theory I talked about testing was whether or not Mark, who received the first vote this game, followed this trend. At the time I had no other reason to vote for anyone, and as I said I wanted to encourage discussion in a different way than usual, so I decided to go for it. I have since talked things over with Mark and believe he is aligned to the Shardic Coalition, and therefore I have no reason to push for his lynch.

...Huh. I hadn't even noticed. Interesting.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I can understand not wanting to lynch a villager with a Shard, but we're gonna have that risk regardless, so you pointing out that you'd rather sacrifice yourself than lynch a villager with a Shard just seems like a pointless sentiment to voice, since I believe that most villagers would, in a situation where it's either them or an extremely dangerous villager up for the lynch, sacrifice themselves to give their team the best shot at winning by allowing the more helpful role/player to survive(not necessarily the case, because no one wants to die, but I think my point is clear enough). And you mentioning your death in LG14 feels a bit like a play on others sympathy.

 

I don't really think it's a pointless sentiment because I am telling everyone what my perspective and intentions are. If a thought process of mine has an impact on my actions and people want to challenge me for said actions then I'm going to say why I am taking those actions. As for that bit about LG14 it's not a play at people's sympathy, it's just a fact. The reason why I am so enthuastic with my activity (and why I came back as early as I have, since I had planned on waiting to get back into SE until after I moved to South America) was because I was genuinely interested in and excited for this game.

 

The biggest problem I see with your suggestion is finding another Shard to give yours to. Shards don't start out knowing other Shards' identities, and they have no reason to share. So I don't know how that'd work. (Plus, it's difficult to guarantee that someone claiming a Shard actually has one, even if you do find one. How do you know you're not just giving it to a 17th Sharder?)

Secondly, the whole point of my suggestion was to broaden the pool of people who could have Shards. Your suggestion does not do that, at all. It keeps the same pool of people to target and potentially kill.

 

I'm not entirely sure if that course of action I brought up would be my final decision; I am Shardless so before writing that I haven't done much tactical thinking in the matter. Just was a thought that crossed my mind to provide more options than just passing the shards around willynilly. There are ways to prove that you are a Shard, however. Say if I was Devotion and you claimed Dominion to me. To verify you I ask you to invest in Lopen, who I then open a PM with to confirm you are who you say you are. I can then also use my ability to start a PM with you and any player of your choice to prove myself. As a result we now are both verified and if we think it's wise one of us can give up their shard to form Unity. While I do agree that we should broaden the pool it's a very risky thing to do to non-Shards because any of them could be a member of the 17th Shard. Until we get some scans going or enough discussion / circumstances to soft clear players to receive Shards I think consolidating them is something to consider.

 

Mark IV (1): Araris Valerian

Mailliw73 (1): Conquestor

Amanuensis (3): phattemer, The Mighty Lopen, Elbereth

The Young Bard (2): Paranoid King, leiftinspace

Nyali (1): The Young Bard

Trelagist (4): Nyali, DeathClutch19, cloudjumper, Mailliw73

Deathclutch19 (1): AliasSheep

cloudjumper (1): Amanuensis

Edited May 16, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Young Bard he/him]

Well, that escalated quickly...

 

Nyali, I hope there are no hard feelings. Sorry, Trelagist.

 

I don't have time to respond to accusations against me until after turnover. I'll work something out when I get home.

 

Mark IV (1): Araris Valerian

Mailliw73 (1): Conquestor

Amanuensis (3): phattemer, The Mighty Lopen, Elbereth

The Young Bard (2): Paranoid King, leiftinspace

Trelagist (5): Nyali, DeathClutch19, cloudjumper, Mailliw73, The Young Bard

Deathclutch19 (1): AliasSheep

cloudjumper (1): Amanuensis

Edited May 16, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Seonid he/him]

The cycle is over!

 

The writeup will be up shortly.

[Seonid he/him]

Night 1: A Silence of Forboding

 

Silence fell over the assembled Shards at the final pronouncement. The return of the Wanderer had not been completely unlooked for, but it was certain that he represented a far more implacable foe than the Coalition had ever before faced.

 

Even Odium, the Shard of Hatred, was only a force of nature, after all; an embodiment of Divine Enmity, with no personal feeling attached to it. And the Intent of a Shard had made him predictable, too. Such predictability was what had won their last two wars against him.

 

But the Wanderer of Worlds, weak in power though he might be compared to the rulers of the Cosmere, was something far more dangerous. No longer quite mortal, but not confined by the strictures that bound the Shards, he was motivated by a feeling far more subtle than hatred. None assembled there could quite ascertain quite what it was, that inner drive that had led their foe on a crusade to reassemble the Shattered God of creation. Perhaps some delusion of grandeur, or some sense of justice. Maybe even a tinge of regret; he had, after all, been complicit in the death of the God to begin with.

 

Of one thing, however, the Shards were certain. Whatever ethereal feeling motivated this madman's crusade to reform Adonalsium, his push to strip them of their power was born of one feeling only. Revenge.

 

Endowment, Shard of Gifts, broke the silence first. "The Wanderer is cunning. How shall we find him? There are many worlds in the Cosmere, and he is skilled at remaining unseen, even against our sight."

 

A voice rasped from the head of the long table. "Are there not many mortals who move among the worlds? They have eyes and ears, and are not as easily blinded as you think."

 

"But there are undoubtedly many of his followers among them. We would risk crippling our own effort..."

 

The speaker was cut off with a curt gesture. "It is undoubtedly so. The weak will fall. The strong will survive. The mortals will find him, or they will not. It will be as their own wills make it."

 

Dominion, Shard of Lordship, nodded in response. "And, after all, is it not best to dispose of the madman's followers along with him? Though without his leadership, they are far less likely to achieve their goal, still we ought to disabuse them of the notion that the Coalition can be opposed with impunity."

 

With those words, the Council voted.

 

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The back alleys of Elantris were not unlike back alleys anywhere in the Cosmere, Gorl mused to himself. The worldhopper smiled as he passed the hours waiting for his quarry. The organization of worldhoppers was loose, of necessity, since the 17th Shard had been subverted by Hoid. A disaster, that had been. But there remained enough bands of communication that when the word had gone out that Hoid was returned, Gorl knew almost immediately.

 

After much discussion with his fellow worldhoppers, they had settled on a single target. The Nameless had always been a loner, and so it was perhaps inevitable that the suspicion of his fellows had landed on him. But, after all, where better for a disciple of Hoid to hide than a lonely wanderer who seldom made contact with others?

 

A form darkened the other entrance of the alleyway. Gorl looked up. The Nameless walked hesitantly in, eyes scanning everywhere for threats. Cautious, as he should be, Gorl thought approvingly. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough to save him. The forms of other worldhoppers emerged from the shadows nearby, hidden by various means. The Nameless died without a sound.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Tindomë never heard it coming. A bright light flashed in front of her eyes, along with a sudden pain in her chest. As her eyes cleared, she saw a ragged open wound in her body. Her sight fading, she looked up to see her attacker, shock on his face. "I didn't mean to do that," he mumbled quietly. Then, darkness took her.

 

The Nameless (Trelagist) has been lynched! He was a Worldhopper.

Tindomë (Elbereth) has been killed. She was a Mastrell and Agent of Autonomy who held the Stick and Suicidal Analyst meta-roles.

 

Vote Tally:

 

Mark IV (1): Araris

Mailliw (1): Conquestor

Amanuensis (3): Phattemer, Lopen

Young Bard (2): Paranoid King, leiftinspace

Trelagist (6): Nyali, DeathClutch, cloudjumper, Mailliw, Young Bard, Elbereth

Deathclutch (1): Sheep

cloudjumper (1): Amanuensis

 

 

Night 1 has begun! It will end in 24 hours. PMs will be sent out shortly.

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by Seonid

[Seonid he/him]

Player List:

1. Par Degaton (Master Elodin)
2. Jonly (The Only Joe) - A Sliver of Preservation, and a Feruchemist
3. Hal Heatherlock (Parodium Haelbarde)
4. Seznith Seridanon (Kynedath)
5. The Nameless (Trelagist) Worldhopper
6. Gorl (cloudjumper)
7. Alkazar (Zephrer) - an exiled Sand Mastrell from Taldain
8. Hadrian Penrod (Araris Valerian) - a Scadrian nobleman
9. Miani (Mailliw), Maw's latest apprentice
10. Kelen Taldar (AliasSheep)
11. Tindomë (Elbereth) Mastrell; Agent of Autonomy; Stick and Suicidal Analyst
12. Amanuensis (Amanuensis)
13. Nijza (Nyali), a world singer of small renown
14. Bernte Ghetti (Burnt Spaghetti)
15. Gon Freecs (DeathClutch19)
16. Brian (Paranoid King), a lowly soldier
17. Exisa (phattemer), the original Seventeeth Shard
18. (MarkIV)
19. Parth (Conquestor)
20. Jimmy (TheMightyLopen), a Lifeless hamster
21. Nila Hamming (Arrenae), an enthusiastic Hemalurgist

22. Left of Space (leiftinspace)

23. Valan Quivar (Quiver), a Rosharan dudebro highprince

24. Second of the Sky (Alvron), on his last chance with the Collective.

25. Vathir (The Young Bard), a Nalthian Rambleman

Edited May 16, 2016 by Seonid

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

So was he just a no role?

Cause that would explain his lack of activity once he received his role :/

[Mailliw73 he/him]

So was he just a no role?

Cause that would explain his lack of activity once he received his role :/

That's what I was thinking.

[Mark IV he/him]

Why does aman have 3 votes?

[Seonid he/him]

Made a mistake; sorry. Elbereth is dead too. She has been added to the writeup.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Well, that's too bad. Sorry Trel, it's probably my fault you got lynched. I do feel like that was a much better Day 1 than we've had in a long time, with a good amount of voting happening, and players actually seriously discussing lynching players.

 

I do find it very interesting that Elbereths vote was moved off of Aman and onto Trelagist.

 

Edit: uhhh, ninja'd by sad news.

 

Edit 2: Just realized that El's vote must have been moved by Hoid, which is why she died.

Edited May 16, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Alvron he/him]

I quickly skimmed D1, 11 pages? really?, and saw the idea of having someone with a Shard offering themselves to be Shattered to keep the Hoidities sudden death win.  But I don't think it would've worked unless I missed something.  Cultivation can restore any Shattered Shards.

 

Something else to consider is if Endowment should Invest in Trel bringing them back to 'life'. Edit: Or Elbereth.  RIP Rem.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Alvron

[Seonid he/him]

Sorry, guys! That last mistake about Elbereth rattled me, and in my rush to fix it, I missed the Order of Actions. I've updated Elb's role above.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Okay, I should actually have time this cycle, with the QF done.

Elb had 2 metaroles? I didn't expect that to be possible...

[A Joe in the Bush]

What? She was also Autonomy's agent? Wow, okay. So I guess Hoid killed her on accident. But what was Hoid trying to do? Scan her? Futiley redirect her vote to save Trel?

[Alvron he/him]

So Elbereth was an agent of Autonomy?  Autonomy can only convert during the night though.

 

Seonid, Can Odium and/or Autonomy start with an Agent?  Edit:  And Honour.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Alvron

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Joe, her vote was moved off of Aman. I personally suspect that Hoid moved it because Aman is a member of the 17th Shard and Hoid wasn't able to be online at rollover. Of course, that's because I'm suspicious of Aman.

 

Edit: Alv, I was reading the rules as saying that Autonomy can use their Shardic power during the Night only, but can Invest at any time. Well, that's how I'm reading it since El was just converted.

Edited May 16, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Seonid he/him]

So Elbereth was an agent of Autonomy?  Autonomy can only convert during the night though.

 

Seonid, Can Odium and/or Autonomy start with an Agent?

 

Odium and/or Autonomy do not start with Agents. However, investing can be done during either Day or Night. Investment also happens before kills.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Elb had 2 metaroles? I didn't expect that to be possible...

 

The Stick starts out with a second one. So it's probably a Stick exclusive.

[Alvron he/him]

Edit: Alv, I was reading the rules as saying that Autonomy can use their Shardic power during the Night only, but can Invest at any time. Well, that's how I'm reading it since El was just converted.

Odium and/or Autonomy do not start with Agents. However, investing can be done during either Day or Night. Investment also happens before kills.

Well, that'll teach me for not fully reading the rules and just going on LG10/LG14 experience.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Joe, her vote was moved off of Aman. I personally suspect that Hoid moved it because Aman is a member of the 17th Shard and Hoid wasn't able to be online at rollover. Of course, that's because I'm suspicious of Aman.

That, should be impossible. Hoid's vote change would have been turned into a kill action, so her vote would remain on Aman. Seonid? Does Hoid's original action against the Stick also go through?

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Made a mistake; sorry. Elbereth is dead too. She has been added to the writeup.

Geez. Either Hoid targeted her or she outed a player. She didn't out anyone, right, Seonid?

 

I quickly skimmed D1, 11 pages? really?, and saw the idea of having someone with a Shard offering themselves to be Shattered to keep the Hoidities sudden death win.  But I don't think it would've worked unless I missed something.  Cultivation can restore any Shattered Shards.

 

Something else to consider is if Endowment should Invest in Trel bringing them back to 'life'. Edit: Or Elbereth.  RIP Rem.

I'd recommend El, not Trel. Sorry. And apparently, El was the person to be targeted.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Analyst doesn't get to do anything till night.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

The Stick starts out with a second one. So it's probably a Stick exclusive.

 

But the rules say The Stick starts out with a minor role, not another meta role. I guess it wasn't every mentioned how many role/meta roles you could have though. *shrugs*

 

Well, that'll teach me for not fully reading the rules and just going on LG10/LG14 experience.

 

To be completely honest, I'm mostly just reading up on the rules as they become relevant. That's... probably a horrible thing to do. >>

 

That, should be impossible. Hoid's vote change would have been turned into a kill action, so her vote would remain on Aman. Seonid? Does Hoid's original action against the Stick also go through?

 

I hadn't thought about that. But that's pretty much the only thing that Hoid could have targeted her with, unless he can scan during the Day, which I don't think is possible.

 

Anyways, assuming that he did move her vote, which was what killed her, these would be my biggest suspects for Hoid, due to these players being online after she voted on Aman, but not being online at rollover: Kynedath, Cloudjumper(currently my biggest suspect for Hoid actually. His timing of going offline, as well as adding his vote on Trelagist to tie the lynch makes me suspicious.), Zephrer, Araris, PK, phattemer, Conquestor, Arraenae(unlikely though, since she originally voted on Aman) and leiftinspace.

 

Edited for clarification

Edited May 16, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Amanuensis he/him]

Joe, her vote was moved off of Aman. I personally suspect that Hoid moved it because Aman is a member of the 17th Shard and Hoid wasn't able to be online at rollover. Of course, that's because I'm suspicious of Aman.

 

Honestly I can't even blame you for coming to this conclusion. I would too if I didn't know any better. But I am not a member of the 17th Shard even though it appears that Hoid interacted with her in some way. I guess I'll have to go ahead and claim that I am an Elantrian and put in the order to move Elebereth's vote to Trelagist. That is the reason why in the write-up her vote was moved despite the fact that she died to Hoid.