Long Game 21: To Reforge a God

[Seonid he/him]

That, should be impossible. Hoid's vote change would have been turned into a kill action, so her vote would remain on Aman. Seonid? Does Hoid's original action against the Stick also go through?

 

Any action by Hoid directed at The Stick is changed into a kill action. This means that the original action does not go through.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

 

Honestly I can't even blame you for coming to this conclusion. I would too if I didn't know any better. But I am not a member of the 17th Shard even though it appears that Hoid interacted with her in some way. I guess I'll have to go ahead and claim that I am an Elantrian and put in the order to move Elebereth's vote to Trelagist. That is the reason why in the write-up her vote was moved despite the fact that she died to Hoid.

 

 

Any action by Hoid directed at The Stick is changed into a kill action. This means that the original action does not go through.

 

Blast. Why can't anything be simple?   I don't really understand why you didn't just move your own vote to Trelagist instead though.

 

Anyways, Seonid, is Hoid's scanning ability a Night only Action?

[Seonid he/him]

All scanning abilities are Night-only actions

[Mark IV he/him]

Wherever a meta-role says "Begins with another minor role," it should be replaced with "Begins with another role." There are no limitations or guarantees on which roles a meta-role may start out with.

That solves that.

[Haelbarde he/him]

All scanning abilities are Night-only actions

In the Night Order of Actions, the Awakener and the Analyst are explicitly referenced, but not Hoid. And under Hoid's description, it specifies "Once per Night" for his Protect, Redirect, and Roleblock, but not the scan...

 

Edit:

That solves that.

Good catch.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Haelbarde

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

All scanning abilities are Night-only actions

 

Which is what I thought. So Hoid must have tried to move El's vote, because that is the only Action he can target other players with during the Day, unless he has a meta role I guess?

 

Also, thanks Mark for bringing up that clarification, I'd forgotten about that.

[Seonid he/him]

In the Night Order of Actions, the Awakener and the Analyst are explicitly referenced, but not Hoid. And under Hoid's description, it specifies "Once per Night" for his Protect, Redirect, and Roleblock, but not the scan...

 

This is a result of the scan being a later addition not vetted with the same amount of nitpicking that I gave the rest of the rules. All scans, including Hoid's, are night actions.

[Haelbarde he/him]

This is a result of the scan being a later addition not vetted with the same amount of nitpicking that I gave the rest of the rules. All scans, including Hoid's, are night actions.

Okay, makes sense.

 

Which means that Hoid was indeed trying to redirect Elb's vote, but killed her instead. If there's another Elantrian out there who had redirected Elb's vote, it would be worth roleclaiming - it'll mean we've found our first member of the 17th shard. And not only that, their leader!

[Conquestor he/him]

 

Anyways, assuming that he did move her vote, which was what killed her, these would be my biggest suspects for Hoid, due to these players being online after she voted on Aman, but not being online at rollover: Kynedath, Cloudjumper(currently my biggest suspect for Hoid actually. His timing of going offline, as well as adding his vote on Trelagist to tie the lynch makes me suspicious.), Zephrer, Araris, PK, phattemer, Conquestor, Arraenae(unlikely though, since she originally voted on Aman) and leiftinspace.

 

 

So why am I suspicious? Just because I wasn't on at the time doesn't mean anything. If it did, than most people would be suspicious at the moment. 

Edited May 16, 2016 by Conquestor

[Nyali she/her]

So, just to be clear, Stick died, and the only way someone can die during day 1 is from Hoid's Stick-murdering shtick. All normal vig and faction kills are night only. That means that Hoid tried to use an ability on Elbereth. Seonid, if Hoid secret-voted for Elbereth, would that have triggered the Stick shtick? If not, then as others said, it had to be the redirect. 

 

 

How does Aman have three votes from two people? Wouldn't a redirected vote, from like Hoid or Cultivation (or Cultivation's investee, which can't exist on day 1 - I think those three are the only vote redirects?) show up as if the person had voted for their redirected choice? Since Hoid trying to redirect Ms. Stick would change into a Kill action, Hoid couldn't redirect a vote AND kill Stick. Hmm, unless Secret Voting counts for the Stick kill. Oh, that said, the invisible vote could be a secret vote from Hoid. Seems an odd place to spend one of his (her?) three actions though... I'd expect Scan, Protect, and Healing to be more useful this early, unless he/she was trying to protect a 17th Sharder from a lynch (which clearly didn't happen here).

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and if the 3 on Aman is correct as Hoid's secret vote, doesn't that mean everyone whose votes showed up can't be Hoid? If that's true, the Secret Vote power is really dangerous to use, especially this early.

 

EDIT2: If the above edit is true, then that narrows Hoid's identity down to only nine suspects. Fourteen people voted publicly and two died, out of twenty-five total, leaving nine left.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Nyali

[Arrae]

Does someone have a list of people who didn't vote?

[Nyali she/her]

Voters: Araris, Conquestor, Phattemer, Lopen, Paranoid King, leiftinspace, Nyali, DeathClutch, cloudjumper, Mailliw, Young Bard, Elbereth, Sheep, Amanuensis

 

Non voters:

1. Par Degaton (Master Elodin)

2. Jonly (The Only Joe)

3. Hal Heatherlock (Parodium Haelbarde)

4. Seznith Seridanon (Kynedath)

5. Alkazar (Zephrer)

6. Bernte Ghetti (Burnt Spaghetti)

7. (MarkIV)

8. Nila Hamming (Arrenae)

9. Valan Quivar (Quiver)

10. Second of the Sky (Alvron)

 

 

Oh, I miscounted because Elbereth both died and voted. Still. That's a nicely small set of people, if the OP is correct and the invisible vote is Hoid's secret vote. And if Hoid can't also post a public vote, or if he does, if it's ignored in the public count.

[Conquestor he/him]

So out of all those people, who do we think is the most likely to be Hoid? Also, remember when Trel said that he got the role he wanted? Well what if he was a shard? Seonid, do shard deaths show up in the write up? If that is the case, then either the 17th shard has a shard or someone else has a shard.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Conquestor

[Seonid he/him]

So, just to be clear, Stick died, and the only way someone can die during day 1 is from Hoid's Stick-murdering shtick. All normal vig and faction kills are night only. That means that Hoid tried to use an ability on Elbereth. Seonid, if Hoid secret-voted for Elbereth, would that have triggered the Stick shtick? If not, then as others said, it had to be the redirect. 

 

Hoid's secret vote is sufficient to trigger the Stick's conditions. Also, the vote tally in the writeup is correct.

[Nyali she/her]

Hoid's secret vote is sufficient to trigger the Stick's conditions. Also, the vote tally in the writeup is correct.

 

Well, I think that clinches it. Hoid redirected Elbereth and then Secret Voted for Aman. By the rules, Hoid can't be any of the people who voted.

[Arrae]

Seonid, if Hoid secret-voted for Elbereth, would that have triggered the Stick shtick?

Stick shtick. Heh.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

If Hoid votes publicly and secretly, how does his vote show up?

[Arrae]

Seonid, are there hints in the writeup?

If there are, the person in Elb's death writeup didn't seem to be intentionally killing her.

[Nyali she/her]

Seonid, are there hints in the writeup?

If there are, the person in Elb's death writeup didn't seem to be intentionally killing her.

 

Of course not - we know it has to have been Hoid using a non-murder ability on Elbereth, which wound up killing her because Stick. So, it certainly wasn't intentional, he just wanted to redirect her vote or vote against her in secret (almost certainly the former since we can see a different secret vote in the tally).

[Seonid he/him]

If Hoid votes publicly and secretly, how does his vote show up?

 

If Meta was Hoid, and voted on Wilson in thread, but voted for Stink in secret, the writeup would look like this (assuming no other votes):

Wilson (0): Metacognition

Stink (1): None

If Meta did not vote in thread, but voted for Stink in secret, the tally would look like this:

Stink (1): None

 

Seonid, are there hints in the writeup?

If there are, the person in Elb's death writeup didn't seem to be intentionally killing her.

 

The writeup is done to suit my creative mood, I do not guarantee the accuracy of any particular scenario presented there. I do not guarantee its inaccuracy either - but the writeup is done to provide flavor and mood, and is not intended to be a fully accurate representation of events. The only portion guaranteed to be accurate (minus GM mistakes) is the Vote Tally, and any dead players.

[Nyali she/her]

Cool! We just need to narrow the search for Hoid down between those ten then.

[Seonid he/him]

Cycle 2 Clarifications:

A Shard may use their investiture ability on the same player multiple turns in a row. A Shard who refrains from using their Shardic ability may use their investiture ability multiple turns in a row (unless that Shard may not use their investiture ability on themselves).

Investing occurs the cycle following the order: EG - if Cultivation invests during the Day Cycle, their Investee will be notified at the beginning of the Night Cycle. Investment lasts for a full Turn - a Day and a Night Cycle - before vanishing (except for Honor, Endowment, Autonomy, and Odium, whose Investment is permanent until removed). So if a Shard invests during the Day cycle, her Investee gains the benefit of being invested for that Night Cycle and the following Day Cycle. The Shard could not invest again until the following Day Cycle.

If a Poisoner has an extra life, and is attacked, the person they poisoned does not die. The Poisoner’s targets do not die until the Poisoner does. If the Poisoner’s target has an extra life at the time the Poisoner dies, they lose the life, but are not killed.

Devotion may not alter the players in a PM after it has been made. She would have to close it, and reform the PM with the altered set of players. Devotion’s 3 PMs count as a single action, and may be spread out over the course of a Turn.

Protection roles such as the Knight Radiant or the Mistborn may self-target.

It is possible for a player to start out with multiple roles. No player will start out with more than one Shard, more than one minor role, or more than one meta-role.

The Puppetmaster, the Stick and the Troll have been moved to the end of the Order of Actions, simultaneous to the Lynch (during the day) and the Kills (during the Night). The exact order of actions will be as follows: Kill Orders placed; Puppetmaster; Troll Alignment Change; Kill Orders resolved (including those on the Stick). The Puppetmaster will not cancel any order because of role switching.

A player who is Returned keeps the alignment they had at the time of their death. A Returned may be invested in by a Shard after they have Returned.

A Shard whose investment fails (or whose investment is successful but their investee is killed on the cycle they invest) counts as having used an action, but may invest again the next cycle.

Rule Adjustment: If the Troll changes alignment, he will be placed in a doc with all the players who share his alignment. He will not be given access to the 17th Shard doc, nor placed in a PM with Odium, Autonomy, or Survival.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Seonid

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

So why am I suspicious? Just because I wasn't on at the time doesn't mean anything. If it did, than most people would be suspicious at the moment. 

 

I wasn't saying you were suspicious, just that you were a possible suspect for Hoid, because of your online times. But that's irrelevant now, because we know that Hoid secret voted on Aman, so we know that you aren't Hoid!

 

 

Voters: Araris, Conquestor, Phattemer, Lopen, Paranoid King, leiftinspace, Nyali, DeathClutch, cloudjumper, Mailliw, Young Bard, Elbereth, Sheep, Amanuensis

 

Non voters:

1. Par Degaton (Master Elodin)

2. Jonly (The Only Joe)

3. Hal Heatherlock (Parodium Haelbarde)

4. Seznith Seridanon (Kynedath)

5. Alkazar (Zephrer)

6. Bernte Ghetti (Burnt Spaghetti)

7. (MarkIV)

8. Nila Hamming (Arrenae)

9. Valan Quivar (Quiver)

10. Second of the Sky (Alvron)

 

 

Oh, I miscounted because Elbereth both died and voted. Still. That's a nicely small set of people, if the OP is correct and the invisible vote is Hoid's secret vote. And if Hoid can't also post a public vote, or if he does, if it's ignored in the public count.

 

 

Well, I think that clinches it. Hoid redirected Elbereth and then Secret Voted for Aman. By the rules, Hoid can't be any of the people who voted.

 

This situation is still confusing to me. I think I understand what exactly happened(Hoid secret voted on Aman, redirected Elb's vote, which killed her and then an Elantrian(supposedly Aman) moved Elb's vote too, which is the reason why Elb's vote actually got moved). What I don't understand is why Hoid moved Elb's vote if he secret voted on Aman. It's like, either he's trying to save Aman by moving Elb's vote or he's trying to kill Aman by secret voting on him. As it is, this seems an awful lot like some shenanigan designed to either cast suspicion on Aman or get suspicion off of him. I've yet to decide which, although with my suspicion of him, I'm obviously going to be leaning towards the theory that this was designed to get suspicion off of him. But the only thing wrong with that is that Aman is claiming to be an Elantrian who moved Elb's vote, which, I think is true, given no one has counter claimed him, and he knows that falsely claiming to have moved a vote would most likely get him killed either this Night or the next Day(if you're the Elantrian who moved Elb's vote, please claim in the thread). So if Aman is an Elantrian member of the 17th Shard along with Hoid, then why the heck did Hoid try to move Elb's vote too?

 

At least we were able to narrow down who Hoid is a good amount. I'm gonna go through each of those players posts and see what I can find.

[Conquestor he/him]

Seonid you never answered my question about if shard deaths show up in the write up. Also what if survival invests in a returned player? Does that player continue to live or does the player only survive one more cycle?

[cloudjumper he/him]

This is a little off topic, but how do you view other people's online times?