Long Game 23: The Siege of Luthadel

[STINK he/him]

Aman I'm pretty sure there's a difference between 'telling a half-lie etc' (which btw could be a full lie, we don't know if he is Seeker) and just going 'guys don't focus on the faction game' then lying to kill Orlok, who was presumably a threat to your faction. If anyone trusts the stuff you say I'll be pretty surprised after you did that (except for Rae who always does weird stuff with Aman). 

[Amanuensis he/him]

54 minutes ago, STINK said:

Aman I'm pretty sure there's a difference between 'telling a half-lie etc' (which btw could be a full lie, we don't know if he is Seeker) and just going 'guys don't focus on the faction game' then lying to kill Orlok, who was presumably a threat to your faction. If anyone trusts the stuff you say I'll be pretty surprised after you did that (except for Rae who always does weird stuff with Aman). 

The alternative was my death for absolutely no reason but the fact that this is a faction game! I am not going to put someone else's life before mine when I know I am innocent and have reason to believe they are evil, regardless of whether my suspicions were right or wrong. That's just idiotic, and honestly the amount of hypocrisy I've seen this game is irksome at best, frustrating at worst. How dare any of you instigate bandwagons on me for no other reason than a faction game, then you accuse me of doing the same thing when all I want to do is find the Spiked. The fact of the matter is I am useless early game. I need information to find the eliminators. And this notion that I'm the one person who's going to come up with a strategy that will miraculously win the game for my faction alone, or that I'm going to manipulate the village into exactly what I want, whenever I want, is absolute chulldung. Alv is by far a better strategist than I, Mailliw a far better information gatherer and manipulator. The fact that people are focusing on me screams that one of the players in my faction is Spiked, knows that I'm a Seeker, and is having their Spiked friends in the other two factions pushing for a lynch on me because they are afraid of me finding them.

Also, you people think killing me to confirm my role is going to help this situation? I already proved I was telling the truth about scanning Alvron, loathe as he is to admit it. There are two ways for me to prove that I am beyond a shadow a doubt telling the truth. I just offered to scan players at the command of the village rather than my own faction's gain alone, the results of which can be confirmed by any and every member of their House if not the player themselves. Also, I am completely open to being scanned myself, which will prove that killing me is an absolute waste of time and exactly what the Spiked want. Let them waste a turn killing me. Don't do their dirty work for them by lynching me, when there's absolutely no reason to believe I am evil and a ton of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Once again, to reiterate, I cannot be the Inquisitor because I used a provable action last night. I could be Spiked but why waste a village Seeker trying to prove that when you have a safer option? Unless Bronze has some unknown perk that'll help the Spiked more than the village it just makes no strategic sense. This is two games in a row now where I'm being targeted by the village for both false and unfair reasons, and frankly it's getting exhausting.

5 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

As a small side note, if you are actually the Inquisitor, and were going to have been lynched, then a lot of what you did makes sense (it also makes sense that you would lie to set your faction above another, since this is SE :D). If the Inquisitor can soothe, that would help him build his team. Alvron is a strong player, so knowing if he had a power worth converting would make sense, and the gambit you pulled off would let you live to spike another turn. Even if you are just a regular spiked, it totally makes sense to take another player down with you. If I recall, that worked in LG 1 and the fake seeker didn't even end up getting killed.

Emphasis mine.

This isn't even a valid argument. A player has been Spiked every night so far because the Inquisitor is clearly making planting spies their priority. Unless the Inquisitor is brand new or daff, choosing me to be a spy for him is one of the worst ideas imaginable. Yes, I could be telling the truth about being a Seeker AND have been Spiked N0, but the likelihood of that happening is so low, it's ridiculous. Plus there's the fact that I didn't even choose to scan Alvron; my House did. I wanted to scan Orlok or Joe, but my vote was overruled. And either way, what's even the point of getting a specific role on his team when every House is going to be privy to the information gained and vote on how powers are used? Given that this is a faction game, any smart Inquisitor would be choosing players who are unlikely to get targeted by lynches and Coinshots from the start; doing anything else would result in them losing a number with little return benefit. I'm pretty sure everyone here has played enough games to realize that besides me.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Amanuensis

[STINK he/him]

I'm talking mainly about how the person you bandwagoned was someone that was clearly not Spiked. While talking about how important it is to kill Spiked. Oh, and Orlok was talking about focusing on the Spiked too, right? I can't check, but it sounds right to me. So, you basically killed someone that had the same views as you, then complain that people have different focuses than you.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, STINK said:

I'm talking mainly about how the person you bandwagoned was someone that was clearly not Spiked. While talking about how important it is to kill Spiked. Oh, and Orlok was talking about focusing on the Spiked too, right? I can't check, but it sounds right to me. So, you basically killed someone that had the same views as you, then complain that people have different focuses than you.

Clearly not Spiked? Please illustrate to me how that was clear. Because from my perspective he was one of four players that have openly said something that was anti village this entire game. Do I need to quote my entire post where I called him out for what his plan was and what effect it would have on the village? Apparently I do, since you obviously didn't read it or simply forgot.

Quote

Well, I guess now is as good a time as any. Better late then never, eh, Orlok?

For the most part my desire to vote for you is because you've been skating under the radar (total of three posts over 120 hours; really, that's all you can muster?). Now, I'm aware that a lot of players have been just as active, if not less (zas and dowanx come to mind), but despite me being interested in their opinions, I don't know them quite as well as I know you. Therefore, naturally, I'm going to prod you first.

That and the fact that, unlike them, you did something that to me reeks of evil intent.

First of all, the point in time you suggested this does make sense at all. If I'm not mistaken, you brought this up around the middle of N0, when the Inquisitor had no one to strategize with. No voting was going on, and even by the start of the next cycle, there'd only be one Spiked on his side. The chances of either of them getting put up for the lynch on D1 is what? Less than 8 percent? I could understand you proposing this on D4 or D5, maybe, when the Inquisitor has used up all of his conversions. But even then I can't even fathom what good it would do. In fact, I argue it would do a ton of harm to the village, despite your frequent talk about the common good.

Now, let's say you succeeded in convincing the thread it was a good idea. Every member of House Venture, Cett, Lekal and Penrod is laid bare for the world to see. How does this help the Inquisitor? Well, for starters, they can see each team's player composition and be able to accurately judge who among that group of people would, or could, quickly assume a leadership position. Additionally, if an Inquisitor had said from the start, "Alright, I'm going to convert Alvron, Lopen, Mailliw and Orlok" but it turns out three of those players are all on a team together (which is certainly possible), well, that'd certainly be information he'd like to have ahead of time so that he can plan accordingly. Not to mention that if he sees a team that could be overrun early, he might decide to invest himself more in others instead, and just drive those three factions to eliminate that one. Either way, I'm pretty sure that any Inquisitor would prefer to make informative conversions rather than random gambles. And your suggestion would allow them to do just that.

More importantly than all of that, it spells out for each faction where their focus needs to be. This is a faction game, after all. If everyone knows where everybody is from the start it would be so easy to decide who was the biggest threat and needed to be taken care of immediately. First of all, there's one faction that starts off disadvantaged. All it would take is two factions to openly agree to stack all of their votes on the highest threat player in the third faction to get them down to six. Barring soothers, there's no real defense for that. Two factions could easily take the lead and render the others useless, and that's the opposite of what we need. You say that making faction lists public would make people focus on the Inquisitor more. But how? Because everyone can analyze voting patterns? There'd be no use for voting patterns because teams would vote together, simply because of the fact alone that everyone but them needs to die. In the game's current state, when there's genuine unknowns, there exists an opportunity for Spiked to do shady things. If you strip them of that opportunity entirely, you give them no choice but to follow along, no matter what. If they didn't, after all, they'd only implicate themselves. The Spiked need to believe they have a chance if they're going to act rashly and get caught.

Each House is large enough that they can police their own. Unless an entire House gets Spiked, there should be no excuse for the villager majority not catching them red handed. There is no problem with the game as it is now, in regards to finding the eliminators. I myself have written up and posted exactly what each House needs to do if they want to succeed in finding their Spiked. If Houses follow that until the end, or until situations grow dire for us all, then maybe I could see us doing such a thing. But this early? Please explain to me how it helps, because even your second post clarifies nothing for me.

Significant risk of letting the spiked run away from the game? It was D1 brother and there was only 2 of them! I can kinda understand the bit about additional scrutiny, but the thing is... how do the two even correlate? A faction is going to be hesitant about lynching their own members. I get that, utterly and completely. But you know who won't be hesitant in it regardless of if the player is actually suspicious or not? Every other faction. The fact that I know everyone in my House means I'm already scrutinizing those players more than any other. The second one of them slips up and gives me a genuine reason to think they're evil, you can bet I'll bus them. So long as you are alive and are willing to do the same, you'll have no problem in your House.

Isn't the whole point of these games having fun, anyway? Doing what you suggest would strip half of what makes this game unique away. I, for one, would be bothered by such a plan being followed through if I were the GM. Of course he can't stop us from doing it, but I know I'd be disappointed. There are plenty of elimination games on these forums as in, but a faction game only pops up every few months, it seems. I would think you would feel similarly yourself, as with every other player, so naturally the only thing that makes sense to me is that you have an agenda that would severely benefit from a faction list reveal, just like how the Diaggramists in MR10 were eager to see it happen. As of right now there's only a single agenda I can imagine that would benefit from it; the Spiked.

How do you vote for a player for their views "only benefiting the Spiked" when your views do the exact same thing, if not worse?

Also, this:

What is this? What was even the purpose in this? I always had the impression that it was against the rules to edit a new vote into an old post after other people had already posted - especially right at turnover - but since Ren counted it I guess it was allowed. But still, who does this help? How does this help? It had absolutely no impact on events, just made some people think there were two Soothers when there weren't. Was that your intent? To mislead people, to cause confusion? Cause that kinda sounds Spiky to me. But I might just be crazy.

Anyway, as of right now you're the best I've got. If you can explain yourself and your perspective adequately enough that I understand where you're coming from, then I'll likely retract. I want to be wrong about you. Want to just assume that you're playing devil's advocate. But even then, I really don't get the purpose. To see who would support a plan so clearly bad for villagers? I do things like that all the time, but even this... I'd say that might've worked if PK wasn't the only one who gave it the thumbs up, but there was so much opposition to it that... for whatever reason you decide to bring it up again? Help me help you, Orlok. Help me understand. Otherwise I'm going to have to see you dead, and I really don't want that. Not yet.

What was my alternative, Stink? Let myself die when I heavily suspect the Spiked are actively trying to drive lynch discussion away from anything useful and get me killed in the process? Yeah, no. Not going to happen. I can trust myself. Unless I have a reason to trust someone else, I will not hesitate to put my life before theirs unless I have reason to believe they will be more helpful to the game or are without a doubt not evil.

[STINK he/him]

That mentality is all well and good, but I just don't see anyone following any more of your plans and stuff that isn't in your faction. Like when you told me to do something in a certain previous game, and it benefitted the whole village to do the opposite of what you told me to do.

[Amanuensis he/him]

16 minutes ago, STINK said:

That mentality is all well and good, but I just don't see anyone following any more of your plans and stuff that isn't in your faction. Like when you told me to do something in a certain previous game, and it benefitted the whole village to do the opposite of what you told me to do.

Everyone who bandwagon'd on me forced me into this situation. I did what I had to survive, all because players found it more important to lynch me because there's this false notion that I am a threat to them rather than players who are actually suspicious. Orlok was the only person who accumulated votes for genuine reasons, and whether or not I lied about Seeking him does not change the fact that between him and I he was the only one who deserved it.

Also, what the rusts does LG17 have anything to do with this? Oh right, it doesn't. Stop bringing it up, please and thank you.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Nyali she/her]

7 hours ago, Mailliw73 said:

First, you never again get to pull out the QF14 card on me again.  

Second, this is always the side effect of such plays when you are wrong. You receive all the suspicion. 

Lastly, I think you're either Spiked or playing the faction game much more than you say. 

@Nyali Did You see my last message?

Yeah, but it was missing at least one letter and didn't decrypt right. I still don't get how this is secure - anyone can enter my encoded message and decrypt my key by using your message as the key. They could then decrypt your new message with that key to read it. That's really why I was okay with doing this - I haven't shared anything that other people can't figure out trivially.

I think Elodin was trying to trick people into using unsecure methods to share information.

 

 

EDIT: Also, on another note, I think we should kill Aman regardless of whether he's spiked or not. Either he's spiked and killing him is a good thing for all of us, or he's not but he's shown to be willing to lie about our common enemy in order to trick us into helping his house's agenda. Let's repay that underhandedness by following through with what we said - he lies, we lynch (or vig).

 

EDIT2: Also, LG21 shows that you don't ever keep the clearly sketchy Aman alive. Seriously. Don't.

 

EDIT3: Aha! I figured out how to decrypt the message, Maill. Anyone can do it. I didn't even use my pad to decrypt it. Elodin tricked you. Your idea is solid and I like it, but it's also public knowledge now...

Edited July 5, 2016 by Nyali
wrong LG referenced

[Araris Valerian he/him]

@Amanuensis I totally understand that what you did was probably the smartest thing you could have done, regardless of your faction or alignment (and kinda mentioned that in my previous post). That doesn't change that it is also the most suspicious thing any player has done this game, at least in my opinion. You should fully expect to be lynched for pulling something like that off, especially with your reputation with hanging around as an exposed eliminator in a couple of previous games.

As far as "wanting" to attack Penrod, you presented the idea as a serious suggestion. That is all I was implying, similar to what Orlok did. If Orlok really badly wanted to reveal faction lists, he probably would have started with his own. I think the comparison is still valid.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Araris Valerian
Forgot something

[Nyali she/her]

9 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

@Amanuensis I totally understand that what you did was probably the smartest thing you could have done, regardless of your faction or alignment (and kinda mentioned that in my previous post). That doesn't change that it is also the most suspicious thing any player has done this game, at least in my opinion. You should fully expect to be lynched for pulling something like that off, especially with your reputation with hanging around as an exposed eliminator in a couple of previous games.

I would also like to remind any coinshots that happen to be out there that Aman claimed his faction has no Lurchers on N0.

 

EDIT: Oh, and Aman (assuming you survive tonight) or whatever other Seekers are out there - the person I most suspect of being Spiked (other than Aman) is Straw. Straw claims to be a non-allomancer, which is a great role claim for the Inquisitor in my opinion. Straw has allegedly not even opened his faction's document, or allegedly hadn't earlier in the game. But, he's been voting and posting, but not TOO much. He's been visible in the thread a bunch before the accusation that he hasn't been into his faction's doc came.

In my opinion, he's doing just the right level of lurking for being a Spiked. If he's active in the game, but not in the thread and not in his faction's doc, then maybe all his game time is spent in the Spiked doc?

In any case, might be a good person to check out?

Edited July 5, 2016 by Nyali

[Amanuensis he/him]

I want to formally apologize for anyone I upset in earlier posts. It is clear that I was only considering my thoughts and feelings towards the game and no one else's. I'm not going to make excuses for anything I said or did, just ask that you forgive me. That being said, this will be my final post. I do not expect to survive the night, but if I do I will talk to Renegade about replacing me. Best of luck all (except the Spiked. I hope you all die painful deaths ).

[Master Elodin]

3 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I want to formally apologize for anyone I upset in earlier posts. It is clear that I was only considering my thoughts and feelings towards the game and no one else's. I'm not going to make excuses for anything I said or did, just ask that you forgive me. That being said, this will be my final post. I do not expect to survive the night, but if I do I will talk to Renegade about replacing me. Best of luck all (except the Spiked. I hope you all die painful deaths ).

What's happening? Are you leaving?

[Mailliw73 he/him]

5 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Which I don't really understand. You did it in the very same game and were innocent, right? Were you even up for the lynch that turn, or just bored? Either way I stand by the fact that I did the right thing. Killing a Regular over a Seeker regardless of the faction is a better trade, any day of any game.

Once again, how? How does this say I'm playing the faction game more than I say? Also, how can you even use that against me, Mr. War Propaganda? So far I don't think I've seen a single player making any serious efforts towards finding the Spiked. Not like I have, at least.

Neither. I had suspicions and decided to act on them for the good of the village.

See, the difference is that I know I'm playing the faction game. I fully admit to it and don't hide that.

2 hours ago, Nyali said:

Yeah, but it was missing at least one letter and didn't decrypt right. I still don't get how this is secure - anyone can enter my encoded message and decrypt my key by using your message as the key. They could then decrypt your new message with that key to read it. That's really why I was okay with doing this - I haven't shared anything that other people can't figure out trivially.

I think Elodin was trying to trick people into using unsecure methods to share information.

EDIT3: Aha! I figured out how to decrypt the message, Maill. Anyone can do it. I didn't even use my pad to decrypt it. Elodin tricked you. Your idea is solid and I like it, but it's also public knowledge now...

Honestly, I don't know.  

really? It wasn't much of a plan.  Sure you got it?

[Nyali she/her]

17 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I want to formally apologize for anyone I upset in earlier posts. It is clear that I was only considering my thoughts and feelings towards the game and no one else's. I'm not going to make excuses for anything I said or did, just ask that you forgive me. That being said, this will be my final post. I do not expect to survive the night, but if I do I will talk to Renegade about replacing me. Best of luck all (except the Spiked. I hope you all die painful deaths ).

Are you okay? As far as I'm concerned, everything that has been said here has all been totally within the bounds of SE, and I don't consider anything said in a Mafia game to have any bearing on the person saying it out of game. Meaning, you're supposed to be a manipulative jerk in a Mafia game - no hard feelings or it doesn't really work. I guess I'm not really one to talk given my ragequit last game when under a lot of external stress, but I just wanted to say - no hard feelings from here at least.

[Nyali she/her]

8 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Honestly, I don't know.  

really? It wasn't much of a plan.  Sure you got it?

I'm being purposefully vague, banking on most other people being too lazy to figure out how to decode your message. So, you first, us next?

[Mailliw73 he/him]

47 minutes ago, Nyali said:

I'm being purposefully vague, banking on most other people being too lazy to figure out how to decode your message. So, you first, us next?

Ah. I was thinking together. 

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Well my hopes were crushed.. I really thought I was on to something and actually right this time >.> oh well.  And given how upset I was about Mails obvious lying, I can't condone your lies either Aman. That being said, I completely understand your reasoning (both of you honestly, even though I don't like it, this is a game after all), because why would you just let yourself die rather than try anything.  

I am not sure that I 100% believe you are innocent, but I am also not sure I believe you are spiked.  I say that because of my own suspicions on Orlok, that I could see you wanting to push the lynch to someone who you suspected for good reason rather than letting yourself die.  I understand how people could also see that as a spiked wanting to protect themselves by pushing it elsewhere.  The only thing that dissuades me from thinking that you are evil, is the fact that you wouldn't have done such a thing just to get yourself killed that very next night anyway, yes as the inquisitor it would allow you to get one more spike out there, but that would leave your team at 3 and those aren't good odds.  I feel like the inquisitor would want to preserve him or herself further than just one night this early in the game.  Personally, I think an Inquisitor would have allowed one of their spikes to be lynched  to gain trust and keep themselves alive long game (one small sacrifice to get to use the rest of their spikes) rather than a non spiked, knowing it would get them killed anyway.  

I have thought about this a lot since reading through the thread a couple of times and this is where I stand at the moment.  I would be willing to test your seeker abilities further if you are not coin shot tonight. And if you really decide to leave the game because of this I am sorry to see you go.  You are an active player that certainly makes these games interesting (even if your accuracy did frustrate the rust out of me in LG22 ).  I would have kept my vote where it was last night regardless because I don't think its right to kill people based on their reputations, however this is only my second game and I guess I don't fully understand the danger of leaving the skilled players alive, at the same time I would always rather vote for a genuine suspicion of mine than someone who might be a threat at some point (given that this is a faction game, you would be a threat to me eventually but not yet).

Edited July 5, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[Alvron he/him]

11 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Peter Baelish is one of my favorite characters (in the books, especially), so I don't particularly mind that comparison.

He's one of my favorite characters too but that doesn't mean I would trust him.  It's not even you that I'm irritated with.  It's those that trusted you that I'm upset with.  Time and time again you have slipped out of the noose by dangling a little bit of truth covered in lies.  I cannot fathom why they do so and it's that I find to be very irritating.  I fully expect (and support) you lying through your teeth to survive another day or two but for others to constantly believe you just boggles the mind.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

19 hours ago, Nyali said:

Well, I think it's clear that Aman is spiked. He's likely the inquisitor. He probably has a way to survive a kill tonight.

There's literally no evidence to support that. Sure, he lied about scanning Orlok, but the late bandwagon on him for no reason forced him to do that.

19 hours ago, Mailliw73 said:

Should've gone with Aman...

Why? What is it about Aman that makes you want him dead so much? I'm very confused with your insistence to kill Aman. He's a valuable villager, claimed a valuable role, and yet because he's not on the same faction as you(unless you've been fighting in your doc or something), you single him out as the player we should kill.

15 hours ago, Mailliw73 said:

First, you never again get to pull out the QF14 card on me again.  

Second, this is always the side effect of such plays when you are wrong. You receive all the suspicion. 

Lastly, I think you're either Spiked or playing the faction game much more than you say. 

@Nyali Did You see my last message?

Again, you forced him to do what he did. Explain to me how that is "suspicious/playing the faction game" in the least. Or is it that you know it's not suspicious, but other people will view it as such and you're content to let him get killed over what you forced him to do?

11 hours ago, STINK said:

Lol at everyone letting Aman live for no reason. Faction mates or something? Spiked Mates? Just Mates? The votes this game are a mess.

Well, considering there was literally no reasoning for why he should be lynched, he claimed Seeker and he claimed to have scanned a Spiked, it was the obvious action to take. If you put any logical thinking behind your actions, of course.

8 hours ago, Nyali said:

 

EDIT: Also, on another note, I think we should kill Aman regardless of whether he's spiked or not. Either he's spiked and killing him is a good thing for all of us, or he's not but he's shown to be willing to lie about our common enemy in order to trick us into helping his house's agenda. Let's repay that underhandedness by following through with what we said - he lies, we lynch (or vig).

 

EDIT2: Also, LG21 shows that you don't ever keep the clearly sketchy Aman alive. Seriously. Don't.

 

I would say that most everyone would be willing to lie to get out of being lynched for no reason. At that point, there's no reason not to. You say it's "underhandedness," but what exactly was he to do in that situation? Give up and let himself die, hurting his faction and(probably) helping the Spiked? And how is he sketchy?!? 

Honestly, I'm getting suspicious that you may be Spiked because of all of this. First, you want to lynch Aman early on for faction reasons, then, when he claims to be a Seeker and to have scanned Orlok as evil, you just go along with it. I'm wondering if you might have known that Orlok wasn't Spiked, so knew that lynching Orlok first would reveal Aman was lying about scanning him as such, so you hoped you could kill 2 villagers and still come out looking like a villager.

6 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

@Amanuensis I totally understand that what you did was probably the smartest thing you could have done, regardless of your faction or alignment (and kinda mentioned that in my previous post). That doesn't change that it is also the most suspicious thing any player has done this game, at least in my opinion. You should fully expect to be lynched for pulling something like that off, especially with your reputation with hanging around as an exposed eliminator in a couple of previous games.

As far as "wanting" to attack Penrod, you presented the idea as a serious suggestion. That is all I was implying, similar to what Orlok did. If Orlok really badly wanted to reveal faction lists, he probably would have started with his own. I think the comparison is still valid.

Araris, you seem to contradict yourself with that first paragraph. You say what he did was the smartest thing he could have done, regardless of faction or alignment, but then say that what he did was the most suspicious thing anyone has done. I don't see how that makes logical sense. By your own words, what he did was not alignment indicative. So to say that what he did was suspicious doesn't line up at all with the previous statement.

2 minutes ago, Alvron said:

He's one of my favorite characters too but that doesn't mean I would trust him.  It's not even you that I'm irritated with.  It's those that trusted you that I'm upset with.  Time and time again you have slipped out of the noose by dangling a little bit of truth covered in lies.  I cannot fathom why they do so and it's that I find to be very irritating.  I fully expect (and support) you lying through your teeth to survive another day or two but for others to constantly believe you just boggles the mind.

Alv, the times he "slipped out of the noose," people had very good reason to suspect him/he was revealed to be an eliminator. How is this situation even remotely similar? You're completely misrepresenting the facts of this situation compared to what happened in previous games. Although it's understandable coming from you, if you really are in Penrod's House.

Same goes to everyone who is accusing Aman of being Spiked/suspicious/sketchy/somehow evil for what he did. If you're just in another faction than him, so want him dead because of that, okay, fine, but if so, could you please stop the illogical statements and just own up to the fact you want him dead for faction reasons?

I apologize if this post is harsh, I don't mean to be insulting to anyone, but I've been getting more and more frustrated with how things have been progressing in the thread lately. I, for one, want to use the thread to catch the Spiked. I understand players wanting to use shenanigans to try and figure out who's on what faction, but it seems like a lot of players are using the thread almost solely for that reason. I'm gonna use my House doc to try and weed out any Spiked among my group(if there are any), but I don't think that will be enough for each House to do to weed out all of the Spiked, because everybody wants to keep their members alive as long as possible, so we should use the thread to get unbiased opinions on each others teammates. At least, that's my opinion. I haven't played many factions games, so I'm having trouble myself adjusting to all the changes.

So, basically, I don't think Aman is Spiked. I'm getting a definite village read on him right now and would prefer that Coinshots go after players that they or their House genuinely suspect of being evil(Spiked), or, just admit you're killing him for faction reasons(even though I think it's a terrible idea to kill a claimed Seeker on N2).

[Araris Valerian he/him]

@TheMightyLopen The thing is, Aman has a reputation for doing exactly what he did just now, in previous games. I'm actually mad at myself right now for believing what he said, but I was only online for a short while last time and didn't think of Aman's reputation when I went along with his vote. Also, by "smartest" I guess I mean the most productive option for his team, which is different for most productive for the village, since there is a bit of a distinction this game.

And honestly, I don't regard Aman as personally dangerous to me. But I think it is silly for us to let something like what he did slide by. Hey everybody, I am a Seeker and I seeked Lopen and found that he is a Spiked, and didn't use a power last cycle. (But I didn't.)

Would anybody believe me? No. You guys would totally lynch me next cycle if I claimed something like this. Well, Aman did (roughly) the exact same thing, so I am going to do my best to lynch him.

[STINK he/him]

There's plenty of reasoning for why he should be lynched, that being enough people see him as a threat to their faction. I won't claim that I've got some different motive to it, but at the same time the move he did just wasn't one that I can agree with, so I've kinda got two reasons. I have used logic, I just simply don't care about the Spiked.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

2 minutes ago, STINK said:

 I have used logic, I just simply don't care about the Spiked.

THAT is by far the most suspicious thing I have heard yet. The spiked are a threat to us all unless you are one. 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

@Araris Valerian, I still don't understand. What he did, he did because 8 players bandwagoned on him late in the Day because he's a good player. Why, in this instance, is his lying about scanning someone as Spiked any worse than what those 8 players did to him? And he's claiming a valuable role to catch the Spiked.

[STINK he/him]

11 minutes ago, jaimeleecee said:

THAT is by far the most suspicious thing I have heard yet. The spiked are a threat to us all unless you are one. 

Not when everyone else is supposed to care about the Spiked. It's like of every scientist focused on global warming instead of other problems.

[Nyali she/her]

Btw, thanks for confirming your faction for me, Lopen. Looks like my list was correct on that xD Figuring out which faction everyone is in has been a really fun minigame so far.

Just like you want to protect Aman because he's a good player in your faction, some of us want to get rid of him because he's a good player who isn't in our faction. But, it wasn't just because he's a good player that I was trying to lynch him - there are plenty of other good players in this game who are also not in my faction. Aman, however, showed that he could mobilize quite a lot of people to do what he wanted as far as the lynch goes. The tieing thing on Day 1 proved that. That makes him not only a good player with every reason to get people on my team killed and the ability to do so, but also a perfect target for a spike.

Who do you target when you have a conversion ability? The people with power roles or the people who others listen to. Aman is both, if his claim of being a Seeker is true, though no one has been spiked since his roleclaim. Still, Seekers are great for spikes because they can lie about people being clean who aren't and create false trust, or lie about someone who doesn't have a spike having one which is exactly what happened.

I know you won't accept any arguments against a factionmate with a useful role that you want to keep around. But, I do stand by what I've said. Except the "he's definitely spiked" thing - that was a gut reaction to the reveal that he lied about Orlok, posted right after it was revealed. After thinking about it more, I realized that Aman is probably NOT spiked (I'm thinking 50-50 either way right now), or at least, his actions make total sense regardless of whether he is spiked or not.

But, even if he ISN'T spiked, I feel that he needs to be lynched for what he pulled. He really can't be trusted in these situations, and a false viewer is dangerous. Yes, if left alive, he could continue to scan people and find the spiked. But, why would any of us believe him now if he did find a spiked? He's proven he has no compunctions against blatantly lying about his scans to get people killed.

EDIT: Also, I didn't bandwagon on him. I voted for him Day 1 for reasons I clearly gave, and I continued that vote on Day 2.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Nyali

[Mailliw73 he/him]

1 hour ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Why? What is it about Aman that makes you want him dead so much? I'm very confused with your insistence to kill Aman. He's a valuable villager, claimed a valuable role, and yet because he's not on the same faction as you(unless you've been fighting in your doc or something), you single him out as the player we should kill.

Again, you forced him to do what he did. Explain to me how that is "suspicious/playing the faction game" in the least. Or is it that you know it's not suspicious, but other people will view it as such and you're content to let him get killed over what you forced him to do?

I would say that most everyone would be willing to lie to get out of being lynched for no reason. At that point, there's no reason not to.

Same goes to everyone who is accusing Aman of being Spiked/suspicious/sketchy/somehow evil for what he did. If you're just in another faction than him, so want him dead because of that, okay, fine, but if so, could you please stop the illogical statements and just own up to the fact you want him dead for faction reasons?

Him personally? He's a good player. That's not it though. It's more that I want to hurt his faction and he's the most obvious one in it.

I disagree. I know most people are completely against doing this at all, preferring to save their team over their life.

I'm completely open about that.

49 minutes ago, Nyali said:

Btw, thanks for confirming your faction for me, Lopen. Looks like my list was correct on that xD Figuring out which faction everyone is in has been a really fun minigame so far.

Being honest, that was part of the reason I'm against faction lists being revealed.

You good on the plan?