Mid-Range Game 15: The Dula Revolution

[Amanuensis he/him]

30 minutes ago, Elenion said:

 

Thanks, but I think some of those things that you went after El for I'm guilty of as well. For two, I myself said I was okay with recalling me the first night, and I myself supported your idea of scanning non-senators (but supported scanning a senator once there wasn't an immediate need for a vetted non-senator). That being said, I've expressed my logic previously that it was either Aman or El that started as an elim-senator (I'm assuming there was one, and the probabilities I've run and posted). So in my great comparison between Aman and El, I'm more suspicious of El, because Aman's tactics, while seeming unorthodox, appear to be working extremely effectively between weeding out elims and getting vetted senators in.

Should you want further proof I'm a landlord, I can call who the extra vote is on, again. I wasn't attacking you for simply being on bandwagons, I just found it strange that you would join bandwagons but yet offer no personal suspicions until after you were on the wagon. In contrast, I deal out a mix of poke-votes and death threats before I hop on the wagons. Anecdotes: I wagoned on Bard to get a better poke vote, I wagoned on Conq because I didn't want to kill a duelist, I wagoned on Elodin because he didn't answer my poke, I threatened Straw because he wasn't explaining his votes, I threatened Eramit and succeeded in making him lose his cool, etc.

 

But here's my question: is it better to leave a suspicious El on the senate, vote her out, or just kill her next lynch and see what the write-up says? I'd advocate a vote-out, but I want to hear the opinions of more experienced players (looking at you, @Amanuensis, @Metacognition, @Mailliw73).

Fair enough  I haven't looked over your stuff yet, which given how much more involved you've been this game than her, I imagine will take a lot longer. Just from what I do remember I have you ranked lower on my suspicious chart, but I think that's more so because of her voting for me the first two days combined with the fact that there's more things you've done that suggest your good than she has. Of course, that could be intentional to keep you from being scanned.

I believe your claim of being a Landlord, however, or in the case that you're a Derethi, that you are working with one. Not really sure why you'd try to encourage that lie unless you were the Gyorn, which we already know isn't a fact now that Eramit is dead. For that reason I'm pretty sure you're not Jeskeri, given that Conquestor was a Jeskeri Landlord.. So really that leaves only Elbereth as a possible Jeskeri Senator, unless Mek / the RNG made it so the entire original cast were villagers, or at least non-Jeskeri. I suppose that could be balanced since Senators are automatically high priority targets for both factions. Still, I'm doubtful.

I'm not sure if Elbereth is the player I'm most suspicious of yet. I still haven't gone through the rest of the players so far, so I may prefer to lynch one of them instead once I do. My main concern with recalling Elbereth is that if that's the course we take, we need to make sure we replace her with a player who's actually been scanned. While Straw is most likely innocent, he is also notoriously unpredictable, and often in ways that hurt the village regardless of his alignment. I would simply feel more comfortable with a more reliable player in that position. I should be able to get more thoughts down on who I think is worthy of a lynch / scan during the next turn, so I'll talk about this more then.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I suspect Aman just slightly more than El, but they're fairly even in my mind. I trust Ecthelion and Elenion mostly. Eol is another that, like Ecth, I also have a weird gut feeling about. 

I'd like to hear from Sart, Seonid, and Emily as well. 

Concerning the current makeup of the Senate, I'd like to recall Aman if we aren't going to scan Senators. (That is the right color for recall votes, yeah?) 

[Amanuensis he/him]

6 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

 

I suspect Aman just slightly more than El, but they're fairly even in my mind. I trust Ecthelion and Elenion mostly. Eol is another that, like Ecth, I also have a weird gut feeling about. 

I'd like to hear from Sart, Seonid, and Emily as well. 

Concerning the current makeup of the Senate, I'd like to recall Aman if we aren't going to scan Senators. (That is the right color for recall votes, yeah?) 

Recalling me means making me vulnerable to night kills. I'd prefer it if you didn't do that, thank you.  

[Ecthelion III he/him]

@Mckeedee123 Is a player immune the night they are recalled, or just the night they are elected?

[Mailliw73 he/him]

7 minutes ago, Ecthelion III said:

@Mckeedee123 Is a player immune the night they are recalled, or just the night they are elected?

Aman's referring to the fact that he's claimed to be a Duelist and by also being a Senator, he can protect himself. I'll admit that I'd rather he use his protections on others in the Senate who I trust more.  Sorry, but we all gotta make our sacrifices. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

 

Aman's referring to the fact that he's claimed to be a Duelist and by also being a Senator, he can protect himself. I'll admit that I'd rather he use his protections on others in the Senate who I trust more.  Sorry, but we all gotta make our sacrifices. 

Yeah except if I'm dead I can't use that protection anyway. You KNOW I'm going to die sooner rather than later without protection. 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

Yeah except if I'm dead I can't use that protection anyway. You KNOW I'm going to die sooner rather than later without protection. 

And, as I don't trust you quite enough to want you protected, I don't trust that you would die, as if you're Jeskeri or Derethi, you're a lot less likely to die. Kolo?

[Elenion he/him]

6 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

And, as I don't trust you quite enough to want you protected, I don't trust that you would die, as if you're Jeskeri or Derethi, you're a lot less likely to die. Kolo?

Well, he is a pretty good target for a monk as he is. I'll not use my recall vote, since I think suspicious senators will be better than someone who might be an unsuspected Derethi. Kolo?

[Amanuensis he/him]

11 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

 

And, as I don't trust you quite enough to want you protected, I don't trust that you would die, as if you're Jeskeri or Derethi, you're a lot less likely to die. Kolo?

Except I'm neither of those things and therefore am guaranteed to die. I would rather we waste a scan to prove me than give the eliminators the opportunity to kill me. Unless you have an actual reason to find me suspicious, I would rather NOT repeat what's happened the last two games I've played (ya'll decided to lynch me instead of Padan when I was completely right not only about him but his entire team, or ya'll deciding to lynch me because I'm "dangerous to your faction" when all I cared about was killing the Spiked). If you have a genuine reason to be suspicious of me or any sort of evidence to suggest it than please, enlighten us all. Otherwise don't be the only reason my life is put at unnecessary risk. I would REALLY like to survive one of these games as a villager for once. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I rarely have a genuine reason to suspect someone.  I'm actually really bad at finding why I suspect people. 

[Elenion he/him]

1 minute ago, Mailliw73 said:

I rarely have a genuine reason to suspect someone.  I'm actually really bad at finding why I suspect people. 

Sorry but I think @Amanuensis is right in this case. I'd prefer to remove El before him.

[Amanuensis he/him]

10 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

I rarely have a genuine reason to suspect someone.  I'm actually really bad at finding why I suspect people. 

Well then do me a favor and don't vote to recall me tonight, please. Given it's only two votes now, doing so means the Derethi could finish me off for good. The only cause I can see Eol / you trying to recall me tonight is because ya'll are evil. I'm already pretty suspicious of him (which I'll go into next turn when I analyze his posts like I did for Elbereth). I'd do it now but it's getting late and I have to wake up early for work in the morning. I was literally about to go to bed before I saw your post about recalling me, so if I could get your guarantee that you won't do that so then I can lay back down, I'd very much appreciate it.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Aman Fine. I didn't actually remember that Eol also had a vote on you. 

[Elenion he/him]

Just now, Mailliw73 said:

Aman Fine. I didn't actually remember that Eol also had a vote on you. 

We're dangerously close to a kick. I'm not using my landlord vote on Aman, but I'm afraid some Derethi or Jeskeri will.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, Elenion said:

We're dangerously close to a kick. I'm not using my landlord vote on Aman, but I'm afraid some Derethi or Jeskeri will.

I hadn't even considered that. @Eolhondras, can you please remove your retraction vote from me too? Otherwise if a Landlord changes a vote to get me kicked and I die tonight the village is for sure going to lynch you next.

[Elenion he/him]

We could all bandwagon on El. @Amanuensis has a vote, I have two, Maill could use his. That would save Aman.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Elenion

[Elbereth she/her]

I'm here (finally, sorry, it's been a busy day), and writing up a post, but I did want to point out that we're past turnover now. I don't think Maill's retraction will count. Nor any more votes now. 

[Metacognition he/him]

I'm finally back guys. It took me an additional day to recover, but while my birthday was a blast, it's time to get this ball rolling again!

I am suspicious of El, now that we know Bard is likely a Villager*. Plus, the whole WGG from the other night (we still don't know who protected El, which makes it pretty convenient that it was just some outside source) does seem planned to throw off the need for a scan just as we're starting to get the Senate narrowed down. 

That said, I don't trust Elenion or Aman all that much either. Not until they've been scanned as well. I trust Elenion a bit more at this point in time just because he's been very active and has been instrumental in helping us catch our first Derethi. Doesn't stop him from being a Jeskeri though. Aman has made some good points and his plan has made it almost impossible for the Jeskeri to gain control of the Senate. Doesn't stop him from being a Derethi though. 

Considering Bard would've been my choice for recall before the scan (his plan that the two Eliminator groups working together sounded like he was subtly trying to signal to whichever one he didn't belong to, IMO), I'm fine leaving it as it is and scanning El or Aman tomorrow. 

I'll do a more extensive analysis of everyone else tomorrow. Just because we're focused on the Senate right now doesn't mean that we shouldn't also be focused on everyone else. The two Eliminators we've killed haven't been from the Senate after all and with the missing kill, there's plenty of reason to be poking at the inactives right now. In fact, if the Monk doesn't have someone to guard, they should start picking people off of that list for us. 

 

*I say likely because it's very unlikely that both Aman and Bard are Eliminators, but we shouldn't just jump to that conclusion. If we're willing to make the conclusion that El and Cloud could be on the same team and just so happened to get the other's results, then we can't just count out the possibility that Aman and Bard aren't doing the same thing here. 

[Elenion he/him]

3 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

I'm here (finally, sorry, it's been a busy day), and writing up a post, but I did want to point out that we're past turnover now. I don't think Maill's retraction will count. Nor any more votes now. 

Seems a little aggressive for you.

2 minutes ago, Metacognition said:

That said, I don't trust Elenion or Aman all that much either. Not until they've been scanned as well. I trust Elenion a bit more at this point in time just because he's been very active and has been instrumental in helping us catch our first Derethi. Doesn't stop him from being a Jeskeri though.

Go ahead and scan me. That'll give my opinions more weight and stop those conspiracy accusations. And if anyone lies that I'm a Derethi, the lynch on me (and subsequent reveal of Villager: Landlord) will prove their elim-ship.

 

Edit: If I die tonight, lynch El!!

Edited July 15, 2016 by Elenion

[Mailliw73 he/him]

1 minute ago, Elenion said:

Seems a little aggressive for you.

What, her posting that we're past rollover?

[Elenion he/him]

Just now, Mailliw73 said:

What, her posting that we're past rollover?

The tone that I read it in made it sound like less like she was announcing rollover and more like she wanted to make sure that everyone know your retraction wouldn't count and so Aman would be removed.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

You're getting way too suspicious of everyone.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Just now, Elenion said:

The tone that I read it in made it sound like less like she was announcing rollover and more like she wanted to make sure that everyone know your retraction wouldn't count and so Aman would be removed.

I highly doubt that, knowing El. 

[Elbereth she/her]

Maill's got it. That was not my intent at all. 

[Elenion he/him]

Just now, Elbereth said:

Maill's got it. That was not my intent at all. 

I apologize. I guess I read it in my own voice.