Mid-Range Game 15: The Dula Revolution

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

@Ecthelion III, @emilylime, @Eolhondras, @Kipper, @OrlokTsubodai, @Sart, @Seonid, @The Young Bard: did any of you go on a Business Trip N2?

No.

I apologize for inactivity. Work has been brutal, and my band is doing a gig soon that's been keeping me up nights.

Elenion is still on my radar as suspicious. Weasel words. "We're debating." "we can't trust it." I don't like it when people use those words to include themselves with the village.

[Straw he/him]

Eolhondras is also in my doc. Ecthelion, what player has the senate chose?

[Ecthelion III he/him]

@Amanuensis @The Young Bard @Elenion @Elbereth @cloudjumper Would you choose a [trustworthy] player for Straw to add to his doc and have them confirm he is the acolyte?

@Eolhondras Did Straw add you to his doc?

[Elbereth she/her]

I don't know whether Straw would listen, but we could try. Although I'm not sure why you're having the Senators specifically choose who goes into the doc. Why are our opinions any more important than yours? 

As for a trustworthy target... I mean. I don't really care for inviting people who are already Senators because they already have a doc to talk in. I'd rather give it to someone else. Problem is that there isn't anyone who isn't a Senator who's even semi-cleared at the moment, that I can think of.

At this point, though (assuming Eol confirms), I highly doubt that Straw's an eliminator. That would require outing two teammates of his, so that if he ever died they'd go down with him, plus the possibility of the real Korathi Acolyte or one of the people they've invited outing him. Could pass that off as there being two acolytes, but really? They're a confirmed good role who can prove that to others. I really don't think there are two.

So in my mind, Straw and Cloud are the most cleared members of the game. (To everyone else, obviously Straw would be the more cleared.) 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Elbereth

[Eolhondras he/him]

3 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

@Ecthelion III, @emilylime, @Eolhondras, @Kipper, @OrlokTsubodai, @Sart, @Seonid, @The Young Bard: did any of you go on a Business Trip N2?

No.

6 minutes ago, Ecthelion III said:

@Amanuensis @The Young Bard @Elenion @Elbereth @cloudjumper Would you choose a [trustworthy] player for Straw to add to his doc and have them confirm he is the acolyte?

@Eolhondras Did Straw add you to his doc?

Yes.

[cloudjumper he/him]

Quote

Except then if we scan Elb now and it turns out she’s village, we’ll have to scan each other, too. And if I’m evil than ya’ll would have to scan Bard again to make sure he isn’t too. And I feel like that’ll just lead into us wasting several cycles since I know I’m innocent and Bard is, when we could be using that valuable time to narrow down Derethi / Jeskeri not in the Senate.

Hold on! Wait, but can't this apply to any other scan too? Besides, if you scan El, it's extremely unlikely that there's another elim in the Senate.

[Young Bard he/him]

I did not go on a business trip N2. I'm reading through the thread now (which might have made my voting slightly premature, but I wanted to get something in before rollover. It might just be a placeholder vote.

EDIT: Maill - at the very least, it will net us a fair amount of information about who's likely to be an eliminator via bandwagonning even if he's innocent (including one Young Bard , but never mind that.)

Edited July 16, 2016 by The Young Bard
adding a vote

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I don't even know what the tally is, but Elenion. You've gotten so certain about who's an eliminator and who's not that I'm not buying it. Not one bit. 

Edit: I'm so done with this lynch. The only reason for voting for me is because I asked about Merchants?? That's it? That's a crem reason. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Mailliw73

[Ecthelion III he/him]

@Mckeedee123 hasn't been on for a full day. I suspect a very late write-up.

[Seonid he/him]

I haven't been on a business trip. Sorry for my inactivity - I've been quite busy. I can't promise that I'll get better either.

[Elenion he/him]

2 hours ago, Mailliw73 said:

I don't even know what the tally is, but Elenion. You've gotten so certain about who's an eliminator and who's not that I'm not buying it. Not one bit. 

Edit: I'm so done with this lynch. The only reason for voting for me is because I asked about Merchants?? That's it? That's a crem reason. 

I express my condolences. I'm not sure who's an eliminator at all, and Aman proposed killing you due the danger of you being an elim. If it makes you feel better, the senate document will show that I was originally for scanning you, but caved to Aman's argument for lynching. But that makes it sound like it was all Aman's fault, so I'll take some of the blame (and the vote).

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I've now returned. I'm about to read through the entirety of the game, but before I do, I'd like to express my intense disagreement with this post of Straw's:

We should lynch the most suspicious senator so I can be appointed senator. As it is me and cloud are the only confirmed good players. 

Part of it is no doubt a reaction to the sheer arrogance of the post - the presumption that we should end someone's game to give him a little more power, despite the senator not necessarily being the best target for the lynch.

I'm also wholeheartedly opposed to the idea of a fully cleared Senate. The first reason for this is that given the Senate doc is being used, it delivers significantly greater scrutiny of players - an advantage lost in its entirety if all its members are cleared. More importantly to me, though, is the potential a wholly cleared Senate presents for the game to take a turn for the dictatorial.

As it stands, Senators have a deal more power than the rest of us - able to have vast sway over the lynch, and clear a player each cycle.

In the event that every senator is cleared, we risk a scenario where it becomes far more difficult to disagree with them, whilst they have the power to control the direction of the game.

Personally, I'd rather play a game where we risk corrupt senators, but everyone has an equal voice than have no say in the direction of the game.

Essentially, @Straw, despite your being cleared, I'm afraid to say you will not have my vote to elevate you to the Senate.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I was hoping not to have to double post, but it's been more than 5 hours, and with the posts on two separate topics I think it ought to be fine.

Now, I had been intending on merely showing my reasons for scepticism about Aman's alignment.

My original suspicion was motivated by this suggestion of his: 

As for ensuring that the Jeskeri don't overrun the Senate, I would recommend we leave it as it is. I highly doubt that the Senate started with a Jeskeri majority. so as long as we preserve it in its current state we should be fine. Now, both the Derethi and the Jeskeri are going to want to get in there, the first for the power to control the investigations, the second for their win condition. As a result, if we decide not to recall any Senators, they are more likely going to use their kills to open up slots. This is good because due to the fact there's only five of us, it'll allow the village to be able to quickly narrow down which of them are evil (based on who are targeted and who are not). This also allows us to focus our protective roles on a smaller group of targets, making it more likely that a kill will be blocked, and therefore giving the village more time to gather information. In the case a kill slips through our defenses, it is important that we investigate any potential replacement first, which should not be hard to coordinate. 

Such a plan has a few flaws in my mind. The first, and potentially most serious, is that it left the original Senate free from the threat of a scan, and in a position where protection is likely.

This is significant when one considers the power the derethi get from the Senate. Not needing a Senate majority, they may be content to sit without being scanned, in a position with influence over 3 votes. Aman is a highly respected player, and is often listened to - in my opinion, the derethi ought to be quite content with him being their only senator.

I was also motivated by the likelihood of there being at least one non-village senator.

That said, I've become increasingly doubtful of Elb, not least motivated by Meta's post last night - the latter half seemingly devoted to throwing doubt on Aman and away from Elb. Further Elbereth has spent the game essentially tunneled on Aman - despite being active. Other than voting on Eramit, every one of her votes for lynches or in the senate has been on him - and she has, to some degree, come across to me as flying under the radar despite being active (as opposed to it being caused by inactivity).

Consequently, I'm no longer quite so suspicious of Aman as I was before, and would be equally supportive of a lynch or scan of Elb - preferably a lynch, so as to ensure we can trust the result.

[Elbereth she/her]

Hm. While I am indeed active this game (though it still feels less active than I'm used to), I'm not... focused on it? That's not quite the right way to describe it. I'm not keeping track of what's going on as much as I'd like to be. So I haven't really developed any new suspicions. Thus the tunnel on Aman. 

As for a scan or even a lynch on me, I'm beginning to think that might be the best option. I don't want to die, but my death/scan would give everyone a lot of information. (As long as you use it...) And given that we're currently lynching Maill because... not much reason at all? I mean, I'm fine with it (and there are a couple of things that have struck me as maybe eliminator comments - the "Why are we lynching inactives again?" thing about Con, and... something else.), but why the storms is he any more suspicious than I am? That doesn't make sense to me. 

Also, I'll be gone for basically the rest of the day up until turnover (and potentially beyond that as well). Sorry. 

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

In case you are still here, Elb (it's only been 11 minutes since your post), I suggest we go through with lynching you, then. So Elb.

Edit: @Elbereth - a notification would probably help

Edited July 16, 2016 by OrlokTsubodai

[Elbereth she/her]

Yep, here. And I don't want it so much that I will vote for myself. Sorry.  (Particularly because I've seen too many lynches for information that ended up useless because no one else actually went and figured out that information. And because I personally don't think that information is worth more than me continuing to help the village while I'm alive.) I can vote for my scan in the senate, if you'd like that, and then it'd just take one person to shift it over to me. No interest in suicide today, though. 

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Isn't it already 12 hours past rollover? I didn't think we could change anything after.

[Elbereth she/her]

Mm... I mean, Mek counted the retraction after turnover last time. I'd say that probably, everything counts until he posts that the cycle is over. Maybe.

And this is probably actually my last post of the day. Bye! 

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

 I don't want it so much that I will vote for myself. Sorry.

Kas in words but not in actions?

[Elenion he/him]

I'm assuming that we'll just count Day 4 as a 48-hour day instead of 24 and start N4 at turnover. Does anyone know for certain?

[Mailliw73 he/him]

37 minutes ago, Elenion said:

I'm assuming that we'll just count Day 4 as a 48-hour day instead of 24 and start N4 at turnover. Does anyone know for certain?

No clue. Not that it matters for me, I guess. 

[Young Bard he/him]

4 hours ago, Elenion said:

I'm assuming that we'll just count Day 4 as a 48-hour day instead of 24 and start N4 at turnover. Does anyone know for certain?

Well, even if that's true, turnover should have happened by now.

EDIT: No offence to Mek is intended. I'm sure you're super busy with RL stuff. Here's to hoping you can get it sorted out quickly.

Edited July 17, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

I didn't have access to wi-fi until just now. My bad. The Cycle is over. I might actually need a co-GM, though. Depends on how long this game goes. Wouldn't want something like this to happen again.

[Elbereth she/her]

8 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Kas in words but not in actions?

...
Hmph. I don't even have a defence against that... Still not voting for myself, though. Keeping the Senate stagnant is also a good thing. Also I don't want to die twice within 48 hours or so.  

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

And I have to go immediately, apparently. Write-up should be in a few hours.