Mid-Range Game 15: The Dula Revolution

[Elbereth she/her]

Well, let's get this started, I suppose. Seonid. 

[Seonid he/him]

Well, as an attempt to forestall the inevitable:

Keep me alive, and I'll use my kill to target the village's best guess at Jeskeri.

No strings, no frills, no subtext, and no lies (I'm not Aman, after all). If I'm alive at the end of the day, I'll take requests in the night cycle for the Derethi kill target. As a gesture of trust, I'll take credit for the Aman kill - I found the arguments in favor of his Cultishness more convincing than the arguments for anyone else. (He's wrong about Elb, by the way - she isn't Derethi. I tried to kill her N2, but due to poor Doc communication, I missed that Mail was going to protect her. I didn't get on towards the end of the cycle, after all.)

If not, well...I'd say it's been a good game, but I haven't even been active enough to really play it.

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Seonid said:

 

Well, as an attempt to forestall the inevitable:

Keep me alive, and I'll use my kill to target the village's best guess at Jeskeri.

No strings, no frills, no subtext, and no lies (I'm not Aman, after all). If I'm alive at the end of the day, I'll take requests in the night cycle for the Derethi kill target. As a gesture of trust, I'll take credit for the Aman kill - I found the arguments in favor of his Cultishness more convincing than the arguments for anyone else. (He's wrong about Elb, by the way - she isn't Derethi. I tried to kill her N2, but due to poor Doc communication, I missed that Mail was going to protect her. I didn't get on towards the end of the cycle, after all.)

If not, well...I'd say it's been a good game, but I haven't even been active enough to really play it.

If you really are the last Derethi there is no reason to let you live now, Seonid. Otherwise we are unnecessarily delaying the game. Unless there are 3 Jeskeri on the Senate right now (beyond unlikely), killing you now ensures a village win. If the game doesn't end then we know we can't trust you anyway, because you'd have a 4th Derethi running around (likely El).

You might not be me, but I know the strength of an outed eliminator. I've done it twice now, and won both times. Not letting anyone else attempt to do the same. Sorry, but I have no reason to trust your word that you won't use your kill against us. And I can't see any logic behind lynching anyone else besides you, anyway. Also, why did you attack me? Did you not believe my claim of being a Duelist? Also, can you please explain why Mailliw would decide to protect a village Elbereth? I still don't get that.

Sorry you couldn't participate more :[ I feel a bit bad in catching both Mailliw and you simultaneously, if I'm honest. What with eramit getting caught so early, that sorta luck seems unfair to me. Though I am of the opinion that this game was stacked in the favor of the village from the beginning.

[Elbereth she/her]

 

8 minutes ago, Seonid said:

Well, as an attempt to forestall the inevitable:

Keep me alive, and I'll use my kill to target the village's best guess at Jeskeri.

No strings, no frills, no subtext, and no lies (I'm not Aman, after all). If I'm alive at the end of the day, I'll take requests in the night cycle for the Derethi kill target. As a gesture of trust, I'll take credit for the Aman kill - I found the arguments in favor of his Cultishness more convincing than the arguments for anyone else. (He's wrong about Elb, by the way - she isn't Derethi. I tried to kill her N2, but due to poor Doc communication, I missed that Mail was going to protect her. I didn't get on towards the end of the cycle, after all.)

If not, well...I'd say it's been a good game, but I haven't even been active enough to really play it.

Are you trying to make Aman tunnel harder on me? ...Probably... 

As for your offer, I don't know... One, I don't think we can come to any kind of consensus on who is probably a Jeskeri. Two, we don't need to kill the Jeskeri. We just need to make sure they don't control the senate. Which we currently know pretty much for a fact. 

Aman posted saying mostly the same thing, but I might as well post this anyway. 

[cloudjumper he/him]

Seonid, I think we'll take the chance that less than half of the Senate is Jeskiri.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Seonid, of course.

For the scan, I'd recommend Elenion, see previous thread.

Roleplaying to come.

[Elenion he/him]

Ashkelon woke with a wicked hangover. He usually wasn't a mudbeer drinker, but he found Opelon's argument ridiculous and, as he knew well, he was always right. So it was natural for him to fight for his beliefs, any way possible. It just happened that the mudbeer was the best option, considering Ashkelon hadn't brought any bodyguards along to do the fighting for him.

@Amanuensis It appears as if we are both men of our word. Although neither of us got what we were campaigning for, I hope that with a full Senate we will be able to outweigh any Jeskeri infiltrators.

Next things next, Seonid. While I appreciate his offer of help, I don't see anything in it for him, so am suspicious.

I'll tack on a vote for him in the senate as well, but for scanning I'll let the other senators decide. If you want to scan me, go ahead.

And for the future, I think we could abbreviate Elenion to Len for the sake of length.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Elenion

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Senate Document

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fdCOQLGqPIrCEC5nbBxGz34hdYPfDs1Gj4TRrg4uwGM/edit?usp=sharing

 

@Straw, who did you add to your doc?

Edited July 21, 2016 by Ecthelion III

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Sorry for the double post.

I was browsing through the master thread and I found this from Aman: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/54921-mr15-the-dula-revolution/?do=findComment&comment=460357

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Personally, I am willing to cast my votes in the interests of the whole as opposed as the interests of the few. That being said, I am of the opinion that investigating the players within the Senate isn't wise, as if the Jeskeri want to win they are going to have to kill / get us repealed. In forcing them to do that, they end up providing the information we would receive from Investigations. The investigations can then be used to target those outside the Senate to effectively double what we learn as a collective every cycle. Of course, they could respond by simply leaving the Senate alone, but unless three of the starting Senators are Jeskeri (which is extremely unlikely) then we have nothing to fear in that regard.

(This idea was then supported by Maill http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/54921-mr15-the-dula-revolution/?do=findComment&comment=460360. This could mean many things; just some food for thought...)

To add to the confusion, Maill did a complete about-face a few pages later: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/54921-mr15-the-dula-revolution/?do=findComment&comment=460714

-

@Kipper has been lurking again.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Ecthelion III

[Young Bard he/him]

2 hours ago, Ecthelion III said:

 

@Straw, who did you add to your doc?

That would be me.

Sorry I didn't post at all last night. Unfortunately, the same will probably be true today except for voting on Seonid. I have a massive assignment I've procrastinated on for ages and need to get done tonight. (I'll do the same thing in the senate doc.)

[Eolhondras he/him]

I have a couple of points to make about Aman, and I apologize if some of this has already been brought up, but its the summery of my thoughts for most of the game.

I'll just start by saying that I believe that you're Jeskeri and the rest of this post will be worded on the presumption that you are.

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Duelist. I've been self protecting every night so far. I have a very high tendency to die early, and was intentionally trying to bait an attack the past two cycles, with hopes of wasting a kill from the Derethi or the Jeskeri. The fact that the Derethi have left me alone lends me to believe that one of them asked eramit to scan me, most likely on D1. I heavily suspect Elbereth / Orlok for it because they've both mentioned being suspicious of me when I have done nothing but make the eliminators jobs harder. Considering that so long as I am on the Senate I cannot be murdered in the night, it makes sense that they'd try to get me lynched. I was going to hold onto this information longer, but at this point it's pointless to keep it a secret from the village when I believe the eliminators already know

This role reveal was your first action that bothered me. You revealed your role because you thought is improbable that the Derethi wouldn't have attacked you by this point, and therefore must have been scanned by the Gyorn. IF that's true (Mailliw says otherwise), that only takes into account the Derethi kill, but the Jeskeri also failed to attack you. You also make a point of saying that the eliminators already know, when really in the worst case scenario only one would. Basically I think that is a very weak, reason to reveal an important role, and its much more likely that you needed to have your role as public knowledge in order to use it as leverage to keep yourself on the senate.

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Yeah except if I'm dead I can't use that protection anyway. You KNOW I'm going to die sooner rather than later without protection.

Which you did. Very quickly might I add, as soon as it looked at all possible that you were going to be recalled. As the Jeskeri's starting senator, it would set your team back a long way if you were to be removed. This is a nice little ploy to have the village believe that they would be removing an important asset if you were to be recalled.

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Think about Mailliw's role for a second. What would be the point in giving the Derethi the power to protect Senators if none of them began as one? If the goal was to make them able to defend a teammate from another team's kill, they'd need a Kesegan Monk, otherwise. Given that most GMs would probably decide against that because it could have given them the option of two kills a night instead of one, it makes a lot more sense for Mek to have given them a Senator from the get go (since it's way too easy to elect confirmed good players, otherwise)

Replace Mailliw for Aman and Derethi for Jeskeri...

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@Elbereth If you really aren't Derethi and you want the village to win, I ask that you vote for Elenion to be recalled. Otherwise by not acting you're allowing the Jeskeri to get exactly what they want. One less Senator and an Aman vulnerable to their kill, to keep me from further analyzing them

And 'Analyse' them you have;

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Also, in regards to the Jeskeri, I think the lack of a kill means their members were inactive

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Mailliw is my top suspect for a Jeskeri

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I agree with lynching her, but it's less to do with that and more with her interaction with Meta and the fact that she was inactive during the turn where there was only one kill that makes me think she could be Jeskeri

Just a few examples among many, and yet in terms of actually uncovering Jeskeri players there has been zero progress. Up until your accusation of El, there was a lack of analysis of Derethi. This allows you to shift the 'Jeskeri' title from place to place, without the magnifying glass actually landing on any of your team mates, and also allows you to go after your real suspicions in terms of Derethi. The village is still identifying and killing eliminators, so happy days there, while you gain trust and shift focus.

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If this is the case, as a Derethi receiving the scan of a Jeskeri, Elbereth really would have two options. Tell the truth and get him lynched to gain trust, or lie to put the villagers at a disadvantage and maybe establish an early alliance. I could definitely see her choosing the latter before the former, especially with Mailliw there to protect her in case the Jeskeri decided to attack instead (which would effectively prove she was not Jeskeri, perhaps not as well as killing one of them, but enough for her to argue being soft-cleared as a result, if need be)

This whole post seemed far fetched to me. And basically I trust El.

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Personally, I am willing to cast my votes in the interests of the whole as opposed as the interests of the few. That being said, I am of the opinion that investigating the players within the Senate isn't wise, as if the Jeskeri want to win they are going to have to kill / get us repealed. In forcing them to do that, they end up providing the information we would receive from Investigations. The investigations can then be used to target those outside the Senate to effectively double what we learn as a collective every cycle. Of course, they could respond by simply leaving the Senate alone, but unless three of the starting Senators are Jeskeri (which is extremely unlikely) then we have nothing to fear in that regard

The biggest defense you've used to say that you're village is that you put in place plans that make life hard for the eliminators. Those being; scanning non-senators and keeping the senate stagnant (remind me if there are any others). So then the question is, why the sudden change of tack in the last turn or so? 

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Either way, I think it's essential that we recall one of them right now, if we don't want to be at risk of a Jeskeri win. Personally I'm going to vote to recall Elenion, because I'm more certain he is Jeskeri (unlike cloud, who has a chance of being innocent, whereas I see no way that Elenion possibly could be, knowing now that Elbereth is Derethi). This will leave at least two villagers on the Senate, one Derethi, and one maybe-Jeskeri. So no way they can win unless Bard is killed before Elbereth dies

You initiate the whole recall debate by targeting Len, even though with a 5 man senate the Jeskeri can't win as it stands. Essential is also a very strong word, given the assumptions you were required to make to paint Cloud as Jeskeri. This to me looks like a Jeskeri trying to open up a spot on the senate rather than a villager looking after the groups best interests.

Then today you don't have any objections to scanning a senator, and one you claim to believe is Jeskeri. This would have stalled the game out with no real gain to the village, but it would bring you closer to another cycle with a kill, and steer the village away from finding the remaining Derethi(s).

My best guess is that, in the perfect world for you, Len would have been recalled and the kill on Bard would have gone through, leaving two spots on the senate and only one vetted villager. Meaning you have a bit of wiggle room to get a friend on the senate. You're then in a position where if you can orchestrate a lynch on the person you believe to be the last Derethi (El), the game finishes with a 2v2 in the senate, and the Jeskeri winning. 

 

 

[Elenion he/him]

1 hour ago, Eolhondras said:

You initiate the whole recall debate by targeting Len, even though with a 5 man senate the Jeskeri can't win as it stands.

I thought it a little fishy that he'd try to pick on a claimed landlord who could single-handedly get him thrown out. And speaking of that whole voting mess, Aman's main backer Orlok spent a while on the Jeskeri watch list after the missed-kill conundrum. Coincidence?

And thanks for calling me Len.

[Alvron he/him]

30 mins left.

[Alvron he/him]

Night Five: Dulas: The Battle for Sel

Sheon Idris plastered on his most winning smile.  He knew he would have to be at his best for what was to come.  From the moment the sun had set until dawn Sheon had been making his preparations.  Deals were made, prayers performed and coins changed hands.  

But in the end it was all for nothing.

As soon as he showed his face people were calling for his head to roll.

He had made his offer and the town turned on him.  After everything he had done for them they just turned on him.  He was a King.  Or he had been once apon a time.  They didn’t even blink when he had offered to be their sword.  To kill who they chose rather than to follow the orders of Wyrm.  Did they not know of the power he was offering them?  Did they not see that peace would be assured for the next decade?  More if they would only repent and follow the teachings of Shu-Dereth.

Sure, he had trained in the Rathbore Monastery but not for nearly long enough to survive the mob that was slowly enclosing on him.  The daggers he carried concealed all over his body were no match for the swords and pitchforks the town used.

“You are all lost.  Fjorden’s armies shall cleanse this city so the Day of Empire may come to pass.  Jaddeth shall return!”

As he lay dying, his blood pooling around him in the middle of the town square, Sheon could’ve sworn that he saw some Svrakiss cavorting among the townsfolk.

Too late. We were too late.


Sheon Idris has been lynched. He was a Derethi Convert Regular.

Vote Tally:
Seonid: Lotsa people.

Night Five has begun and will end in 24 hours.
Elbereth was scanned.  Their Role and alignment will be revealed to a random Senator.
There are five senators!  A recall, but no election, will take place tonight!

Player List:

 

1. Elbereth- Saoli
2. Mailliw- Reomaim Derethi Convert Duelist
3. Cloudjumper- Kelron
4. The Young Bard- The Mysterious Figure
5. Ecthelion III- Aeleus
6. Orlok- Locke
7. Elodin- oaR  Village Merchant
8. Straw- Straw
9. Conquestor- Lorienthe Mysteries Cultist Landlord
10. Eramit- Kolokolo Kolo Derethi Convert Gyorn
11. Metacognition- Meta Mysteries Cultist Merchant
12. emilylime- Lime
13. Eolhandras- Eolhandras
14. Elenion- Ashkelon
15. Sart- Sart
16. Jaimelecee- Jaena Village Merchant
17. Amanuensis- Opalin
18. Seonid- Sheon Idris Derethi Convert Regular
19. Kipper- Kipper

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Alvron

[Ecthelion III he/him]

I'm still incredibly suspicious of Amanuensis.

[Elenion he/him]

Ashkelon wiped the sweat off his brow with a handkerchief, hearing the familiar jangle of coins in his pocket as he replaced it. He loved that sound. But in order to hear it, he had to be alive. At least this can't go on for much longer. There can only be so many of them left.

I'm debating on whether or not to vote Aman or El off of the Senate. What do you guys think: is it better to keep the senate full or to get rid of a suspicious senator?

 

Senate doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fdCOQLGqPIrCEC5nbBxGz34hdYPfDs1Gj4TRrg4uwGM/edit?usp=sharing

Edited July 22, 2016 by Elenion

[Young Bard he/him]

Alv, you are aware that only the Derethi need to die in order for the game to finish?

OK. I've looked at the Senators, and none of them are strong Derethi candidates in my mind (we could well have a couple Jeskeri, but a couple is still short of winning it for them. Unless Mek deliberately engineered 3 or more Jeskeri to be on the Senate when the game began, I don't think we have reason for concern from that front. The point of instituting the idea of not shifting people in and out of the Senate was to a) prevent the Jeskeri from gaining control presuming they don't have it, and b ) making sure any who do are noticed. If we go back on this idea now, at possibly the most critical time, then it undermines the point of doing it in the first place. If you're Jeskeri, and trying to get that extra buddy or two into the Senate to gain a majority, you're not fooling anyone. I'll leave it there for now, but I'm in favour of continuing with our current plan.

I very nearly posted something, but posting it would probably turn it into a IKYK. In the morning, I should probably be able to trim down the number of Eliminators a fair bit.

P.S. I can confirm I will be on the Shard at turnover (for the first time in ages - sorry about that.)

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Aman, rather than evidence against anyone else, I'd like you to defend yourself - how can you demonstrate to us that you are not jeskeri?

@Amanuensis, What have you done that's suspicious, and how can you explain it?

Edited July 22, 2016 by OrlokTsubodai

[Straw he/him]

If you have a suggestion for who I should invite to my doc please put it in purple

Edited July 22, 2016 by Straw

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

@Straw... That might prove a little unhelpful - pink is already being used as the official colour to call for the removal of a senator.

[Straw he/him]

Fixed. And your point was... 

[little wilson she/her]

19 minutes ago, Straw said:

please put it in blue.

Blue is to be used specifically for OOG discussion, as per the general rules. Please adhere to this. Thank you.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

@Straw I'd say invite anyone but Aman. (Since you invited Young Bard and Aman got Young Bard's scan results, if Young Bard is an eliminator, Aman is an eliminator, too.)

[Elenion he/him]

@Ecthelion III @OrlokTsubodai I think it's best that we hold off on kicking anyone out of the Senate since we're fairly sure that the Jeskeri haven't taken over. The more people we remove, the easier it will be for the Jeskeri to sneak on, especially when they and possibly the Derethi will be killing senators. But if I was voting (which I'm not), I'd definitely vote either Aman or El.

@Straw If you want to add me (Elenion) to the doc then go ahead. I'm one of the most active people here, but since I'm not vetted yet there's a pretty good argument against me. I might also suggest Ecthelion III.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

@Elenion, I think there is a very reasonable chance that Aman is Jeskeri, and would like to him to convince him myself of his innocence before I remove my vote