Mid-Range Game 15: The Dula Revolution

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Why reveal yourself? Because had you had your way, all attention would have shifted from finding the Jeskeri to a sole focus on the Derethi - with you being left alive.

If Elenion is, as you acknowledge is possible, Jeskeri, the risk of a hammer grows.

I think there is a very reasonable chance that you're being entirely honest with us - and do mean well.

However, to me the risk of leaving you alive, both in facilitating the continuation of the Jeskeri goal if, as is plausible, you are misleading us about being the last active Jeskeri, but also through sowing misinformation for your own pleasure outweighs the potential reward of your analysis.

I've just discovered my flight is delayed.

[Amanuensis he/him]

10 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Why reveal yourself? Because had you had your way, all attention would have shifted from finding the Jeskeri to a sole focus on the Derethi - with you being left alive.

If Elenion is, as you acknowledge is possible, Jeskeri, the risk of a hammer grows.

I think there is a very reasonable chance that you're being entirely honest with us - and do mean well.

However, to me the risk of leaving you alive, both in facilitating the continuation of the Jeskeri goal if, as is plausible, you are misleading us about being the last active Jeskeri, but also through sowing misinformation for your own pleasure outweighs the potential reward of your analysis.

I've just discovered my flight is delayed.

I suppose I could see that, but the same thing would have happened if I didn't admit to being Jeskeri. I wasn't in any danger of being lynched when I revealed myself and I severely doubt anyone would have tried to lynch me after recalling me, since I was only suspected of being Jeskeri to begin with (I just saw Eol's post last turn and he pretty much nailed it).

Like I said, that would be acknowledging that the Jeskeri began with two Senators and two Landlords, which separate are very unlikely, even more so when you put them together. Also that we devised a plot to pretend trying to get the other recalled. While that would have been an awesome deception, it's still an unlikely one. Like I said the other turn: sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

I'll just combine these next two statements into one response. At the very least, when this game is over and it's proven for sure that I am being entirely honest about this, I hope it'll alleviate some of the irrational "fear" people have regarding me.

That's the worst  I can't stand airports.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

This might be (and hopefully will be) my last post for a few hours - I think they have a plane that we'll be boarding soon.

I severely doubt anyone would have tried to lynch me after recalling me, since I was only suspected of being Jeskeri to begin with.

Let me assure you - I was planning on doing my best to get you lynched today! 

As I said,  there is every chance, and potentially a likelihood, that you are being honest. But the risks of such an approach are significant, and a lesson every SE player should have learnt is not to underestimate you.

[Amanuensis he/him]

30 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Let me assure you - I was planning on doing my best to get you lynched today! 

As I said,  there is every chance, and potentially a likelihood, that you are being honest. But the risks of such an approach are significant, and a lesson every SE player should have learnt is not to underestimate you.

Awe, that saddens me. In the context of this game, I'm just an innocent, little girl, lost in a foreign country who happened to win it's people over with her incomparable cuteness and earn a seat on its Senate. Granted she was raised by cultists, but that doesn't mean she's evil at the core, or at least can't be redeemed. Opalin really is trying to help, here. Since coming to Duladel she's actually begun to feel like she belongs somewhere for first time in her life. To be strung up by the Dulas she's come to know and, I dare say, even love, over the course of the last week, to the point where she was even willing to betray her loyalties to her parents, would just be so, so heartbreaking.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

What can I say? Locke doesn't exactly have a reputation for being the most... Emotionally stable individual, and your innocence and influence over the Dula represents a barrier in my attempts to take over the senate and rule as a tyrant work for the people in their own interests.

Note: I am a Dula - just RP

[Amanuensis he/him]

Well at least we are both staying true to our characters, then

[Elbereth she/her]

1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

It's impossible to fulfill my win condition. It's been a daunting challenge from the start, and knowing that, I still tried my best. I honestly believed that Elbereth was the last Derethi the previous turn when I voted to recall Elenion, so upon realizing that, I attempted the only opportunity for victory available to me. 1: Recall Elenion, 2: Kill Bard, 3: Sabotage the next election by dividing the thread between electing two different candidates (wouldn't work unless Emily came back by then), and 4: Lynch Elbereth the next day, leaving only cloud and I on the Senate.

hey look it's a box that I can't delete

Wait. But you knew Bard was a Duelist. For a fact. Why did you attack him? Why not try to recall him and kill Elenion, or recall me, or literally anything else? 

As for lynching Aman or not... I'm indecisive. On the one hand, Aman is right that as long as we keep him off the Senate (and if we make sure everyone votes for Straw that's definitely not a problem until tomorrow and we can just lynch him tomorrow if necessary) he's not the most strategic kill. On the other hand, Orlok is right that we should really really kill him... 

[Amanuensis he/him]

24 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

Wait. But you knew Bard was a Duelist. For a fact. Why did you attack him? Why not try to recall him and kill Elenion, or recall me, or literally anything else? 

I had received Bard's scan, and advocated that he was a villager. There was no way I could spin him being either Derethi or Jeskeri without claiming that I lied about his alignment when I received it. That would be me admitting to lying to the thread, which would lessen people's trust of me to the point where there was little chance I could continue to manipulate them (see LG23 where people insisted on lynching me because I lied about Orlok's alignment). I attacked Bard because I saw that he had not been online since the very start of that turn's beginning, and was hoping that since he didn't post or talk at all in the Senate doc that he forgot to put his order in. That way when he died, I could claim that I knew his role and therefore would have never attacked him.

By recalling Elenion and killing Bard, that would leave only you, cloud and me left. I could then spin it that you are the last Derethi, and hopefully Emily would return in time to help me engineer a tie between electing Straw and another candidate to the Senate (I was thinking about advocating Orlok or Ecthellion). If it turned out you were the last Derethi when we lynched you next turn, then I'd win anyway (only cloud and I left). If it turned out you weren't, that'd still be one less Senate slot for me to worry about, and I could plan what to do next from there.

24 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

As for lynching Aman or not... I'm indecisive. On the one hand, Aman is right that as long as we keep him off the Senate (and if we make sure everyone votes for Straw that's definitely not a problem until tomorrow and we can just lynch him tomorrow if necessary) he's not the most strategic kill. On the other hand, Orlok is right that we should really really kill him... 

I don't understand why ya'll should "really really kill" me. Your win condition involves keeping me off the Senate and killing the Derethi. I'm off the Senate and I'm not Derethi, so... it's really unnecessary. Lynching me right now when we have an obvious player to all elect Senator is silly. Especially when I can only make a kill once every other night, and you all can keep me accountable for it. At least killing me this turn is a very bad play. My kill is an opportunity for the village to learn trustworthy information. I can't manipulate the results of a kill.

If we lynch Kipper, who could very well be Derethi, what's the loss even if he isn't? He's barely active and not really contributing.

If Kipper's not Derethi and we investigate Sart, we'll either discover he's a Derethi and I can just kill him that night, or find out he's a villager and use my kill on another unconfirmed / suspicious player. Village gains from having that information, just like they would gain from a Kesegan Monk kill, except it's actually possible for me to kill an eliminator.

Like I said, I think proving Eol's Duelist claim by both him and I targeting Elbereth is worth it. If she survives, that means Eol told the truth about his role (so far he's only claimed a protection that very well could have belonged to Mailliw. Since Mailliw is dead now his counter claim can't be verified, not that it would be anyway given Mailliw was evil), which would confirm he's a villager (I severely doubt the Derethi were given 2 Duelists, and if they were given a Kesegan Monk as well as a Duelist, they would have been using its second power to kill villagers from the start). If she dies and turns out to be a villager, we'll confirm that Eol is a liar and can lynch him the next turn while investigating either Ecth or Orlok. If by some off chance that Eol is both a liar and a villager, we'll find out the alignment of one of the last two unconfirmed players. If that player is not Derethi than it absolutely has to be the other one, unless Elenion was willing to bus his entire team for the long con, which I severely doubt. Cloud could also be Derethi, but that would only be possible if Elbereth is Derethi too, in which case we would find out when we lynch her. If Elbereth is Derethi and the game doesn't end when we lynch her, then we can re-examine Cloud, but I'm still of the opinion that Cloud is village.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Straw he/him]

Aman, best to kill you while the village is in the lead.

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Straw said:

Aman, best to kill you while the village is in the lead.

Except killing me hurts the village by effectively reducing the village's lead >.>

Edited July 23, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Straw he/him]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Except killing me hurts the village by effectively reducing the village's lead >.>

However, killing you helps the village by preventing you from manipulating us. It also rids us of a skilled and active eliminator.

[Amanuensis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Straw said:

However, killing you helps the village by preventing you from manipulating us. It also rids us of a skilled and active eliminator.

Prevents me from manipulating you... how can I manipulate you when I admitted to being evil? If I had any chance of victory after being recalled I would have continued to lie about my alignment. I've done you all a favor by laying myself bare and giving you all of the information I have to work with. Also, I've already made this point before, albeit indirectly, but I'm not even an eliminator. I can kill a player once every other cycle, and it's not even in my win condition to kill villagers. The only relevant eliminators anymore are the Derethi, which I'm trying to help you get rid of.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Straw he/him]

7 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Prevents me from manipulating you... how can I manipulate you when I admitted to being evil? If I had any chance of victory after being recalled I would have continued to lie about my alignment. I've done you all a favor by laying myself bare and giving you all of the information I have to work with. Also, I've already made this point before, albeit indirectly, but I'm not even an eliminator. I can kill a player once every other cycle, and it's not even in my win condition to kill villagers. The only relevant eliminators anymore are the Derethi, which I'm trying to help you get rid of.

You are trying to manipulate us into not lynching you by claiming that you are only interested in killing Derethi. Killing you is the most logical thing to do. The most likely course of action for you is probably to attempt to feed misinformation to us while saying that you wish to help us. Your position as eliminator who revealed themselves only helps you. None of your teammates will attempt to contradict you because they would be quickly lynched. It also helps you because you chose to help us.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Straw

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, Straw said:

You are trying to manipulate us into not lynching you by claiming that you are only interested in killing Derethi. Killing you is the most logical thing to do. The most likely course of action for you is probably to attempt to feed misinformation to us while saying that you wish to help us. 

There was not even a danger of me being lynched in the first place, so why would I reveal myself to manipulate myself into not getting lynched? That makes no sense at all. And once again, there is no logic in killing me. Where does the villager win condition say "kill all Jeskeri." The most likely course of action for me is probably attempt to feed misinformation? Perhaps if I had a chance to win, but it's impossible at this point, and was even borderline impossible from the start. I'm not really concerned about your vote because I'm pretty sure most players will see the sense in what I'm saying. I just am very... irked... by some of your wording here, hence why I'm even bothering to respond.

[Elenion he/him]

2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

I say might because I am severely suspicious of his Duelist claim

I think one of our "Duelists" is secretly a Kesegan Monk. Maybe that's you, Aman, or it could be Eol.

7 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Rest assured, if a mayoralty does develop, I will not comply with it, even if it makes strategic sense to do so.

Go ahead and follow your gut.

7 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Avenge him?! Aman is not a villager - he's been actively working against the village. We owe him nothing but a quick death. His suspicions cannot be trusted at all - and particularly his statement of being the last active Jeskeri is suspect.

At the time I posted that Aman hadn't claimed Jeskeri, and so I assumed his vote-out was a Jeskeri ploy to get one of their own on the Senate. I have since dropped that theory.

7 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

And so have any number of other players - I find the idea of deserving a lynch on the basis of actually playing both confusing when I could apply the same statement to you, to Elb, or half the player list, but also counterproductive for the meta game. Yes, I was inactive earlier in the game - I didn't have Wi-Fi access during the day, and had no energy at night, but returned as soon as I could. In my mind, I think that returning from inactivity is behaviour that should be encouraged, not be grounds for lynching.

I noticed that you became active just as the Derethi needed another member to begin putting in the kills. Yes, it may have been a coincidence, but my gut tells me that you could be very dangerous. Consider it a compliment.

2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Awe, that saddens me. In the context of this game, I'm just an innocent, little girl, lost in a foreign country who happened to win it's people over with her incomparable cuteness and earn a seat on its Senate. Granted she was raised by cultists, but that doesn't mean she's evil at the core, or at least can't be redeemed. Opalin really is trying to help, here. Since coming to Duladel she's actually begun to feel like she belongs somewhere for first time in her life. To be strung up by the Dulas she's come to know and, I dare say, even love, over the course of the last week, to the point where she was even willing to betray her loyalties to her parents, would just be so, so heartbreaking

But yet you still go around sticking knives in people in the dead of night. Yeah, love all right.

 

As for the lynch vote, I'd prefer not to lynch Aman. He gives the village a powerful weapon to use against the remaining Derethi, and he knows that we've got him cornered. One campaign for Senate, one misplaced kill action, he dies. He knows that. So I'd prefer to keep him alive, if only to allow us to get another kill in.

[Straw he/him]

9 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

There was not even a danger of me being lynched in the first place, so why would I reveal myself to manipulate myself into not getting lynched? That makes no sense at all. And once again, there is no logic in killing me. Where does the villager win condition say "kill all Jeskeri." The most likely course of action for me is probably attempt to feed misinformation? Perhaps if I had a chance to win, but it's impossible at this point, and was even borderline impossible from the start. I'm not really concerned about your vote because I'm pretty sure most players will see the sense in what I'm saying. I just am very... irked... by some of your wording here, hence why I'm even bothering to respond.

You would reveal yourself because it gave you more power. Due to you being a skilled player you would be able to take the high risk, high reward way with minimal chance of dying. There is logic in killing you, you are an eliminator. I forget, are you confirmed as a cultist? It would be easy for a player of your skill to pretend to be a cultist. I would be interested to see if other players actually agree with you. @The Young Bard, care to add your opinion?

 

[Young Bard he/him]

Aman, on the basis that voting for an actual Derethi could cost us the game this turn.

Somehow, I don't believe Aman's claim of ignoring his faction goal to help the village. It just strikes me as off, somehow. I don't know why. *cough, cough*LG23*cough, cough*

Luckily, I know of at least one lie that Aman told since becoming a revealed eliminator that everyone else may not. I'm not a Duelist. I'm a Merchant. (For verification, see El's post. His story on that front is internally flawed. Or ask anyone in the Korathi Doc where I claimed Merchant, and I had no reason to lie about that.)

I tried to work out why he made that lie, and there's only one explanation I can think of. It requires a very specific set of circumstances, but if I'm right, the Jeskeri could win unless if we kill the Eliminator this Day Cycle.

Bear in mind that Aman himself admitted that having only 4 Jeskeri to begin with is far too few to plausibly achieve a majority in the senate. I'm sure Mek must have realised this.

First of all, the idea requires that there are 2 Jeskeri in the Senate tonight (which probably means that Mek deliberately engineered the numbers to start with three, or else El and Cloud are the eliminators on the Senate right now, but that doesn't actually matter if we do this right. Just bear with me.) Everyone in the thread except the Jeskeri and I will think I'm the Duelist, so whichever Monk/Duelist protected me won't bother to tonight. So, then I get killed by the Jeskeri, at the same time Straw gets instated, leaving the Senate numbers at 4. Meaning that only 2 Jeskeri, whoever they may be, need to be in there to win.

Now, if the game continued to Night 7, they'd just instate someone else the following night to make up the 5th number, and losing the win con for the Jeskeri. The only way for them to not lose that is for the game to end the game with the lynch tomorrow. And the only way to guarantee that is to make sure the real Derethi is Scanned today. In this case, that's whichever of Sart/Kipper that isn't lynched.

If it's kind of clunky, that's because it is. I'm fairly certain this is the back-up plan, as too much can go wrong. I think the Jeskeri don't know whether it's Sart or Kipper that's the Derethi. They're hoping to get it today (while they have their win con in the Senate), but if they don't, they can always fall back on this. It sounds implausible, but when you consider the context of having 2 Jeskeri in the Senate and one in the village with no chance of being reinstated (even before he claimed), it actually makes a kind of sense, in an I'm-desperate-but-this-is-the-only-thing-I-can-think-of sort of way.

At worst, if I'm wrong, the game is delayed a cycle. Tonight, we add Straw to the Senate as a confirmed good, the Derethi and Jeskeri attacks are blocked by protection roles (which, each individually, they have an 80% chance of doing, before you even count the Merchants). Then we look at the scan of Kipper/Sart from today. If it's Eliminator, we lynch our scan target. If it's Villager, we lynch the other one of the two we didn't scan, and this whole thing ends tomorrow (assuming Aman's analysis is right).

Whew! That was a lot that came out of a fake claim and Aman choosing to out himself. There's a chance I'm barking up the wrong tree, but we lose nothing if I'm wrong, and lose everything if I'm right. And if I am wrong, why did Aman claim I was a Duelist?

TL;DR: My theory on the Jeskeri plan

A and B are Kipper and Sart interchangeably, where one is a Villager and one is the Eliminator.

Day 6: A lynched, B scanned. 2 Jeskeri out of 4 in the Senate. If A is the Eliminator, the game ends with a Jeskeri win. If not, B almost certainly would be (by Aman's analysis), so he gets scanned as an Eliminator

Night 6: Village!? killed by Derethi, Village-Senator!Bard killed by Jeskeri, Straw raised to Senate. 2 Jeskeri out of 4 in Senate.

Day 7: B lynched, Who-cares scanned. The game ends with a Jeskeri win.

Aman, I'm guessing you'll want to respond to this - I'll see it in the morning. I've stayed up way too late to write this.

@Straw, is that enough of an opinion for you?

[Straw he/him]

Good enough for me. I would like to see what Sart has to say about him being a suspected eliminator. 

[Elenion he/him]

Hold on! @Amanuensis might have revealed himself to falsely tell us how many are in the Jeskeri doc! If they've got more than 4 (and I speculated 5 or 6), that could mean that they still have a presence on the Senate.

And now my browser loads Bard's post and I see that I got ninja'd. Very well.

Bard's plan sounds wicked and effective for them to use. I'm sorry, but Kipper Aman.

[Amanuensis he/him]

29 minutes ago, Elenion said:

But yet you still go around sticking knives in people in the dead of night. Yeah, love all right.

Technically I haven't stuck a knife in anyone. I tried to kill Bard last turn, but he fended me off... except now I am royally confused.

29 minutes ago, Straw said:

You would reveal yourself because it gave you more power. Due to you being a skilled player you would be able to take the high risk, high reward way with minimal chance of dying. There is logic in killing you, you are an eliminator. I forget, are you confirmed as a cultist? It would be easy for a player of your skill to pretend to be a cultist. I would be interested to see if other players actually agree with you. @The Young Bard, care to add your opinion?

It didn't give me any power. It stripped me of any power I had to begin with, which was non-existent after I got removed from the Senate. Pretend to be a cultist? Why would anyone pretend to be a Cultist? A Derethi, sure, but once again I was the only reason Mailliw and Seonid were killed at all. Why would I bus two of my teammates just to claim Jeskeri? That makes no sense.

28 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

Aman, on the basis that voting for an actual Derethi could cost us the game this turn.

Somehow, I don't believe Aman's claim of ignoring his faction goal to help the village. It just strikes me as off, somehow. I don't know why. *cough, cough*LG23*cough, cough*

Luckily, I know of at least one lie that Aman told since becoming a revealed eliminator that everyone else may not. I'm not a Duelist. I'm a Merchant. (For verification, see El's post. His story on that front is internally flawed. Or ask anyone in the Korathi Doc where I claimed Merchant, and I had no reason to lie about that.)

I tried to work out why he made that lie, and there's only one explanation I can think of. It requires a very specific set of circumstances, but if I'm right, the Jeskeri could win unless if we kill the Eliminator this Day Cycle.

Bear in mind that Aman himself admitted that having only 4 Jeskeri to begin with is far too few to plausibly achieve a majority in the senate. I'm sure Mek must have realised this.

First of all, the idea requires that there are 2 Jeskeri in the Senate tonight (which probably means that Mek deliberately engineered the numbers to start with three, or else El and Cloud are the eliminators on the Senate right now, but that doesn't actually matter if we do this right. Just bear with me.) Everyone in the thread except the Jeskeri and I will think I'm the Duelist, so whichever Monk/Duelist protected me won't bother to tonight. So, then I get killed by the Jeskeri, at the same time Straw gets instated, leaving the Senate numbers at 4. Meaning that only 2 Jeskeri, whoever they may be, need to be in there to win.

Now, if the game continued to Night 7, they'd just instate someone else the following night to make up the 5th number, and losing the win con for the Jeskeri. The only way for them to not lose that is for the game to end the game with the lynch tomorrow. And the only way to guarantee that is to make sure the real Derethi is Scanned today. In this case, that's whichever of Sart/Kipper that isn't lynched.

If it's kind of clunky, that's because it is. I'm fairly certain this is the back-up plan, as too much can go wrong. I think the Jeskeri don't know whether it's Sart or Kipper that's the Derethi. They're hoping to get it today (while they have their win con in the Senate), but if they don't, they can always fall back on this. It sounds implausible, but when you consider the context of having 2 Jeskeri in the Senate and one in the village with no chance of being reinstated (even before he claimed), it actually makes a kind of sense, in an I'm-desperate-but-this-is-the-only-thing-I-can-think-of sort of way.

At worst, if I'm wrong, the game is delayed a cycle. Tonight, we add Straw to the Senate as a confirmed good, the Derethi and Jeskeri attacks are blocked by protection roles (which, each individually, they have an 80% chance of doing, before you even count the Merchants). Then we look at the scan of Kipper/Sart from today. If it's Eliminator, we lynch our scan target. If it's Villager, we lynch the other one of the two we didn't scan, and this whole thing ends tomorrow (assuming Aman's analysis is right).

Whew! That was a lot that came out of a fake claim and Aman choosing to out himself. There's a chance I'm barking up the wrong tree, but we lose nothing if I'm wrong, and lose everything if I'm right. And if I am wrong, why did Aman claim I was a Duelist?

TL;DR: My theory on the Jeskeri plan

A and B are Kipper and Sart interchangeably, where one is a Villager and one is the Eliminator.

Day 6: A lynched, B scanned. 2 Jeskeri out of 4 in the Senate. If A is the Eliminator, the game ends with a Jeskeri win. If not, B almost certainly would be (by Aman's analysis), so he gets scanned as an Eliminator

Night 6: Village!? killed by Derethi, Village-Senator!Bard killed by Jeskeri, Straw raised to Senate. 2 Jeskeri out of 4 in Senate.

Day 7: B lynched, Who-cares scanned. The game ends with a Jeskeri win.

Aman, I'm guessing you'll want to respond to this - I'll see it in the morning. I've stayed up way too late to write this.

@Straw, is that enough of an opinion for you?

This entire post is serious chulldung, I can't even bring myself to comment on the sheer ridiculousness of it, for fear of getting more angry than I already am. Seriously Bard, are you kidding me right now? Why the Braize would you lie about your role to the thread when you know I'm telling the truth! I can't even begin to express how disappointed I am in you right now. I... I'm literally dumbfounded. I'm done. I am sick and tired of genuinely trying to help people and being repeatedly punished for it. One time I could deal with. Two times, I nearly took a hiatus from these games entirely. But three storming times in a row? Yeah, I'm done being doubted and my genuine efforts to help being unappreciated. I clearly don't belong in this community if this is how I'm going to be repeatedly treated.

23 minutes ago, Elenion said:

Hold on! @Amanuensis might have revealed himself to falsely tell us how many are in the Jeskeri doc! If they've got more than 4 (and I speculated 5 or 6), that could mean that they still have a presence on the Senate.

And now my browser loads Bard's post and I see that I got ninja'd. Very well.

Bard's plan sounds wicked and effective for them to use. I'm sorry, but Kipper Aman.

If you honestly believe Bard's post right now, what the storms does killing me even do to help? You know you're a villager, Elenion, so that means for Bard's outrageous theory to be true, Elbereth and Cloudjumper have to be Jeskeri, which means THEY would need to die right now, NOT me.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Eolhondras he/him]

32 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

Luckily, I know of at least one lie that Aman told since becoming a revealed eliminator that everyone else may not. I'm not a Duelist. I'm a Merchant. (For verification, see El's post. His story on that front is internally flawed. Or ask anyone in the Korathi Doc where I claimed Merchant, and I had no reason to lie about that.)

 

First of all, the idea requires that there are 2 Jeskeri in the Senate tonight (which probably means that Mek deliberately engineered the numbers to start with three, or else El and Cloud are the eliminators on the Senate right now, but that doesn't actually matter if we do this right. Just bear with me.) Everyone in the thread except the Jeskeri and I will think I'm the Duelist, so whichever Monk/Duelist protected me won't bother to tonight. So, then I get killed by the Jeskeri, at the same time Straw gets instated, leaving the Senate numbers at 4. Meaning that only 2 Jeskeri, whoever they may be, need to be in there to win.

 

7 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

This entire post is serious chulldung, I can't even bring myself to comment on the sheer ridiculousness of it, for fear of getting more angry than I already am. Seriously Bard, are you kidding me right now? Why the Braize would you lie about your role to the thread when you know I'm telling the truth! I can't even begin to express how disappointed I am in you right now. I... I'm literally dumbfounded. I'm done. I am sick and tired of genuinely trying to help people and being repeatedly punished for it. One time I could deal with. Two times, I nearly took a hiatus from these games entirely. But three storming times in a row? Yeah, I'm done being doubted and my genuine efforts to help being unappreciated. I clearly don't belong in this community if this is how I'm going to be repeatedly treated.

If you honestly believe Bard's post right now, what the storms does killing me even do to help? You know you're a villager, Elenion, so that means for Bard's outrageous theory to be true, Elbereth and Cloudjumper have to be Jeskeri, which means THEY would need to die right now, NOT me.

I sympathize Aman, and I'm sure many players who have encountered illogical paranoia on a regular basis would as well. Before this gets too heated, if @Alvron could check if there wasn't a mistake in the pm's? Both players seem quite certain causing some harm.

1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

Eol's Duelist claim by both him and I targeting Elbereth is worth it. If she survives, that means Eol told the truth about his role (so far he's only claimed a protection that very well could have belonged to Mailliw. Since Mailliw is dead now his counter claim can't be verified, not that it would be anyway given Mailliw was evil), which would confirm he's a villager (I severely doubt the Derethi were given 2 Duelists, and if they were given a Kesegan Monk as well as a Duelist, they would have been using its second power to kill villagers from the start). If she dies and turns out to be a villager, we'll confirm that Eol is a liar and can lynch him the next turn while investigating either Ecth or Orlok. If by some off chance that Eol is both a liar and a villager, we'll find out the alignment of one of the last two unconfirmed players. If that player is not Derethi than it absolutely has to be the other one, unless Elenion was willing to bus his entire team for the long con, which I severely doubt. Cloud could also be Derethi, but that would only be possible if Elbereth is Derethi too, in which case we would find out when we lynch her. If Elbereth is Derethi and the game doesn't end when we lynch her, then we can re-examine Cloud, but I'm still of the opinion that Cloud is village.

I'm fine with this plan. In a compromise for Bard's accusations, perhaps we could put it back one cycle (if there is one) and have you kill Lime tonight. If Lime is confirmed as a Jeskeri, it would be even more absurd for there to be two Jerskeri on the current senate as it would require 6 total (10/19 players as eliminators :S). Perhaps this would alleviate any further suspicion, and allow you to finish the game.

[Straw he/him]

@Amanuensis Bard claimed merchant in the doc. No one expects help from a person in another faction, there are too many ways that something could go wrong. @Sart Is lurking.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Straw

[Ecthelion III he/him]

@Amanuensis Cool down. This is only a game, and it's a game of deception. Whether you like it or not, you're very good at that. Do not take it personally that people are doubting you. It's part of the game to take everything anyone says with a grain of salt. The reason people are double-taking (and coming up with ridiculous theories) are because frankly, you're the person in this game who's capable of such an elaborate ruse. Take it as a compliment.

[Elenion he/him]

@Straw will almost surely be elected to the senate tonight.

@Amanuensis I wish I could trust you but I can't right now. If you can resolve the problem with Bard's alignment I may reconsider my vote.

@Kipper @Sart You two are my biggest suspects for Derethi, with @OrlokTsubodai coming in third and @Ecthelion III in fourth. I want to hear each of your arguments so I can decide who to vote on in the future.

I propose we leave @Elbereth on the senate to get the numbers back up to 5.

[Kipper he/him]

6 minutes ago, Elenion said:

@Straw will almost surely be elected to the senate tonight.

@Amanuensis I wish I could trust you but I can't right now. If you can resolve the problem with Bard's alignment I may reconsider my vote.

@Kipper @Sart You two are my biggest suspects for Derethi, with @OrlokTsubodai coming in third and @Ecthelion III in fourth. I want to hear each of your arguments so I can decide who to vote on in the future.

I propose we leave @Elbereth on the senate to get the numbers back up to 5.

I won't fabricate a meaningless argument to remove your incredibly important vote from me. If you have any factual questions you want answered, do ask. However, since you've just asked for an "argument," with no explanation of what said argument will be for, you shouldn't expect a well-reasoned response.

Also, you are not the voice of the town. Don't presume to speak for it.  

@Ecthelion III, I have nothing to say other than that this is an abnormal level of inactivity for me in games, and one that I think would be highly unusual for an Eliminator.