Mid-Range Game 15: The Dula Revolution

[Amanuensis he/him]

8 minutes ago, Elenion said:

 

@Amanuensis I wish I could trust you but I can't right now. If you can resolve the problem with Bard's alignment I may reconsider my vote.

Seriously consider Bard's vote on me. His entire theory about not lynching Sart / Kipper right now is that the Jeskeri might win when we kill the last one. So, by that logic, shifting the lynch onto either you, Elbereth or cloudjumper is the only thing that would prevent the Jeskeri from winning. I'm already off the Senate. Killing me does absolutely nothing. Given the fact that I received a GM PM telling me that Bard is a Village Duelist, it's hard for me not to feel like he's spitting in my face right now. He knows that I didn't lie about his role, and by extension knows that his entire theory is nonsense, which is the entire reason why I'm so distraught right now.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I'm actually inclined to believe Aman on this - I trust that his response to Bard's post was genuine - it certainly feels genuine.

Bard, given there exist reasons to lynch Aman anyway, I'd advise not making up information. Having been on the receiving end of this in LG23, I can assure you that it isn't pleasant - and here there is far less justification than there was then.

[Alvron he/him]

4 hours ago, Eolhondras said:

Before this gets too heated, if @Alvron could check if there wasn't a mistake in the pm's? Both players seem quite certain causing some harm.

Sadly, it turns out that Mckee did indeed give Aman incorrect Scan results.  I dislike doing this as it reveals certain information but it needs to be done and with full clarity.  Aman was told that Bard was a Village Duelist.  That is incorrect.  Bard is a Village Merchant.

[Elbereth she/her]

Well, Alv settled most of that question, but I'll address Bard's plan such as it is anyway:

Okay. So my view on this: If Bard's plan is the case (which, I suppose, is possible), we will know by tomorrow because Aman will have targeted Bard or someone else on the Senate. At that point I see no reason we won't just lynch him tomorrow, so... that plan doesn't really work out as far as I can tell. 

Aman is almost certainly Jeskeri (and if he's Derethi I'd say he deserves to win - but even if he is we'll notice eventually when everyone's been scanned, and given that there's almost certainly only one Derethi left it's not like he can ever outnumber us before we lynch him), and we need to kill the Derethi to win. We have a chance of doing that this cycle through scan or lynch, and even if we lynch Aman next cycle through scan again. Plus Aman's kill, potentially. That's four that we can go through right there, maybe five if we don't lynch him until the following day (which could be okay as he can't kill on odd nights), which is a significant portion of the remaining uncleared. I suggest we use that, and if Aman's double-crossing us (which he is not; he knows where that will go and it will not end well for him) we lynch him tomorrow. So my lynch vote stays where it is. I could move my scan vote to Sart, if that's wished. I have no preference. 

Thank you, Alv. Glad that headache was cleared up before I had to engage with it. >> 

Edited July 23, 2016 by Elbereth

[Elenion he/him]

2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Seriously consider Bard's vote on me. His entire theory about not lynching Sart / Kipper right now is that the Jeskeri might win when we kill the last one. So, by that logic, shifting the lynch onto either you, Elbereth or cloudjumper is the only thing that would prevent the Jeskeri from winning. I'm already off the Senate. Killing me does absolutely nothing. Given the fact that I received a GM PM telling me that Bard is a Village Duelist, it's hard for me not to feel like he's spitting in my face right now. He knows that I didn't lie about his role, and by extension knows that his entire theory is nonsense, which is the entire reason why I'm so distraught right now.

Since it no longer appears that Aman was trying to deceive us, I'm back to promoting keeping him alive to kill for us. Aman. Kipper.

Current votes as I can determine are (if your vote is incorrect/not listed, please speak up):

Thread Kill:

Kipper (7): Aman, Ecth, Eol, Len, Senate

Aman (3): Orlok, Straw, Bard

 

Senate Kill:

Kipper (2): El, Len

Aman (1) Bard

 

Senate Inspection:

El (1): El

Sart (2): Len, Bard

 

 

And now Bard is hard-cleared, with Cloud soft-cleared and Straw on the hard-clear/soft-clear border.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Elenion

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 hour ago, Alvron said:

Sadly, it turns out that Mckee did indeed give Aman incorrect Scan results.  I dislike doing this as it reveals certain information but it needs to be done and with full clarity.  Aman was told that Bard was a Village Duelist.  That is incorrect.  Bard is a Village Merchant.

In light of that, I want to apologize to Bard (and everyone else by extension) for my reaction following Bard's post. I was perfectly fine with Orlok's vote on me, and even Straw's I had no real issue with (other than some of the wording), but when Bard posted what he did I was utterly confused. I could not fathom why a villager would lie about their role when it meant confusing the village more and inevitably driving people to kill me despite the fact that he should know my death would have absolutely no impact on him or any victory other than the Derethi's. I am sorry about jumping to the conclusion that Bard was allowing reputation bias to skew his ability to reason to insanity. It is not an excuse, but I've already been playing this game as if it were Master Ninja mode on Ninja Gaiden 2 (thanks to several oversights regarding mechanics that I was willing to chalk up to the game not being ran through extensive scenario testing), to the point where I had to take risks I really didn't want to. When I was recalled, I decided it would be better to accept defeat and offer what help I could provide rather than get upset for being put in a near impossible position from the beginning. I didn't want to accept that Mek had accidentally given me false information, mostly because of the fact that I have been strategizing around it specifically ever since, and already was very sore after being an unfair victim of the meta issue.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Elenion he/him]

2 hours ago, Kipper said:

I won't fabricate a meaningless argument to remove your incredibly important vote from me. If you have any factual questions you want answered, do ask. However, since you've just asked for an "argument," with no explanation of what said argument will be for, you shouldn't expect a well-reasoned response.

Also, you are not the voice of the town. Don't presume to speak for it.  

@Ecthelion III, I have nothing to say other than that this is an abnormal level of inactivity for me in games, and one that I think would be highly unusual for an Eliminator.

I'm not speaking for the town, only myself. I wanted to know if you had a good reason to not by lynched, such as being a Kesegan Monk or Duelist, because I don't want to kill a protection role at the time when we have few leads on the Derethi.

 

Edited July 23, 2016 by Elenion

[Elenion he/him]

4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

In light of that, I want to apologize to Bard (and everyone else by extension) for my reaction following Bard's post. I was perfectly fine with Orlok's vote on me, and even Straw's I had no real issue with (other than some of the wording), but when Bard posted what he did I was utterly confused. I could not fathom why a villager would lie about their role when it meant confusing the village more and inevitably driving people to kill me despite the fact that my death has absolutely no impact on him or any victory other than the Derethi's. I am sorry about jumping to the conclusion that Bard was allowing reputation bias to skew his ability to reason to insanity. It is not an excuse, but I've already been playing this game as if it were Master Ninja mode on Ninja Gaiden 2 (thanks to several oversights regarding mechanics that I was willing to chalk up to the game not being ran through extensive scenario testing). Considering I had just given up on winning because of its sheer impossibility, I didn't want to accept that Mek had accidentally given me false information that I have been strategizing around ever since.

You're not the only one playing this like Master on NG2, and we've both taken flak for it. All you can do is apologize, move on, and try not to do it again.

[Kipper he/him]

7 minutes ago, Elenion said:

I'm not speaking for the town, only myself. I wanted to know if you had a good reason to not by lynched, such as being a Kesegan Monk or Duelist, because I don't want to kill a protection role at the time when we have few leads on the Derethi.

 

Nah, my role is rather useless.

[Elenion he/him]

Just now, Kipper said:

Nah, my role is rather useless.

That's actually one for you in my book: an elim would have claimed a more important role.

[Young Bard he/him]

1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

In light of that, I want to apologize to Bard (and everyone else by extension) for my reaction following Bard's post. I was perfectly fine with Orlok's vote on me, and even Straw's I had no real issue with (other than some of the wording), but when Bard posted what he did I was utterly confused. I could not fathom why a villager would lie about their role when it meant confusing the village more and inevitably driving people to kill me despite the fact that he should know my death would have absolutely no impact on him or any victory other than the Derethi's. I am sorry about jumping to the conclusion that Bard was allowing reputation bias to skew his ability to reason to insanity. It is not an excuse, but I've already been playing this game as if it were Master Ninja mode on Ninja Gaiden 2 (thanks to several oversights regarding mechanics that I was willing to chalk up to the game not being ran through extensive scenario testing), to the point where I had to take risks I really didn't want to. When I was recalled, I decided it would be better to accept defeat and offer what help I could provide rather than get upset for being put in a near impossible position from the beginning. I didn't want to accept that Mek had accidentally given me false information, mostly because of the fact that I have been strategizing around it specifically ever since, and already was very sore after being an unfair victim of the meta issue.

That's all right, Aman. I'm really sorry about all the confusion.

OK. That basically makes my entire argument chulldung, as Aman said, so I have no problem lynching Kipper.

EDIT: And by the way, I'd never do something like that because of a persons rep. Actually, if you ever do catch me doing that, it's probably because I'm an eliminator trying to control the lynch (or else am a villager that's very certain that my target is an Eliminator, but this is SE, where you can't even be certain of the scans you see with your own eyes, so that won't happen often). 

Edited July 24, 2016 by The Young Bard
Added in a bit at the bottom

[Alvron he/him]

Night Six: Dead men tell no tales

Kipper has been lynched.  He was a Village Mystery. I never received his PM so the best I can tell you is that Kipper was a Villager.  Anything else he has taken to his grave.
Sart was scanned.  Their Role and alignment will be revealed to a random Senator.
There are four Senators so we will have both a Recall and Election this night.

Vote Tally:
Kipper (8): Aman, Ecth, Eol, Len, Bard, Senate
Aman (2): Orlok, Straw

Edited November 29, 2016 by Alvron

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Straw (I think the color for Senate election is green, I forgot)

 

[Young Bard he/him]

9 minutes ago, Ecthelion III said:

Straw (I think the color for Senate election is green, I forgot)

It shouldn't matter. Sart is the last Derethi (well, a Derethi at least). I got the scans just then. A "Derethi Convert Regular", apparently. Aman, can you kill him tonight, and end the game for us? (Sorry again about the confusion.)

[Elenion he/him]

I'm all for Aman saving us the work, but Straw just to be safe.

[Young Bard he/him]

4 hours ago, Elenion said:

I'm all for Aman saving us the work, but Straw just to be safe.

Oh yeah. I thought I'd edited that in. Straw.

[Straw he/him]

Should I invite Aman, Orlock, or Elenion to my doc?

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

 

@Straw, Aman, whilst potentially helpful, is still an eliminator - and so whichever of Elenion or I you choose, I'd strongly caution you against choosing him and in so doing giving him roles

[Elenion he/him]

@Straw I also agree on keeping a self-proclaimed Jeskeri out of the doc.

As for choosing @OrlokTsubodai or I, I'll let you make the choice. A benefit of choosing me is that I'm most definitely not Derethi, a drawback is that I mayor enough already in the Senate doc as it is. Take your pick: I don't care much either way.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Straw. I've got the order in to kill Sart now. Though I'll be happy if he is the last one (mostly because I think the next QF will be Stink's Pokemon game, which I reckon will be both extremely interesting and entertaining), I do recognize that it also means Emily and I will be executed. I imagine watching cute little Opalin, sun dress speckled with Sart's blood, marching herself up to the gallows with her head held high, accepting of her fate and truly at peace, for in her heart she knows that in the end she did the right thing. I can see a lone tear cascading down her cheek as she looks upon the frowing faces of her newfound friends... family, even... and yet the touch of a smile upon her lips, as though her life on Sel might be ending, a new one will be beginning with the loving embrace of Domi, her only regret being that she did not have the strength to run away home before her parents could abandon her in Duladel.

EDIT: In case I die and Sart is not the last Derethi, I would recommend Lynching Ecth and Investigating Orlok. Everyone else is basically cleared villagers at this point, IMO (minus Lime, of course )

Edited July 24, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Ecthelion III he/him]

I forgot, why is Elby a cleared villager?

[Elbereth she/her]

I'm not. I mean, I arranged myself to be scanned and I didn't know the scan would come back to me, so that's a point in my favor, but no one has scanned me or cleared me in other ways. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, Ecthelion III said:

I forgot, why is Elby a cleared villager?

Well, technically she's isn't cleared per say. Now that I know it was actually Eol who protected her and not Mailliw, I'm of the opinion that Mailliw was just trying to get a villager killed by tying himself to her.

[Elenion he/him]

54 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Well, technically she's isn't cleared per say. Now that I know it was actually Eol who protected her and not Mailliw, I'm of the opinion that Mailliw was just trying to get a villager killed by tying himself to her.

Sure sounds like something he (or you for that matter) would do.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Elenion

[Amanuensis he/him]

3 minutes ago, Elenion said:

Sure sounds like something he (or you for that matter) would do.

Definitely. For the record, I never really believed Mailliw's claim to begin with. I needed to get Elbereth off the Senate to win, so I was really just trying to take advantage of his claim. I also wanted to get the player who actually protected her to reveal herself so I could kill them. If only I had been able to get online sooner to prevent me from getting recalled