Long Game 24: The Godless City

[Elenion he/him]

12 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

You keep both alignments.

Interesting... so if you convert one villager, then kill all of the true eliminators, then the village wins as well? If so, I'm all for this unholy alliance, because with my vote record I'm not going to stay alive to the end anyway, so have to aim for a village team victory.

Edit instead of double-post: I know... convert a confirmed villager, then have the Chay-Shans mow through everyone but starting Jeskeri and the one villager. Do you guys have a bodyguard or legionnaire who could protect our villager from elim attacks?

Edited August 5, 2016 by Elenion
Wrong "to"

[Master Elodin]

4 minutes ago, Elenion said:

Interesting... so if you convert one villager, then kill all of the true eliminators, then the village wins as well? If so, I'm all for this unholy alliance, because with my vote record I'm not going to stay alive too the end anyway, so have to aim for a village team victory.

Exactly. We should have a vote..

To my fellow Jeskeri: I'm unable to write the doc, so could one of you please PM me? We need to discuss this potential alliance.

[little wilson she/her]

PMs aren't allowed during the night...

[TheSilverDragon he/him]

1 hour ago, Elenion said:

Finally, if we do decide to make an alliance, I have strong village reads on Lopen and Aman, as well as currently-inactive Silver Dragon and, of course, myself.

I'm only somewhat inactive, mostly luring 

I also am pretty sure conquestor is village, but am only about 65% sure about that

[Master Elodin]

58 minutes ago, little wilson said:

PMs aren't allowed during the night...

I know. I should clarify, I meant as soon as possible.

[TheSilverDragon he/him]

So if your not in c, hommunication with your team, how do we know the rest of your team agrees with you?

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Woah. What happened here. An alliance with a conversion team, that would allow both teams to win?? That doesn't seem right to me at all... I understand that the converted player could win either way via their original team or the converted team but I can't see that win being for the ENTIRE village... The villages win condition is to  kill all the evil players I can't imagine that that wouldn't include a conversion team that also has a kill. Meaning that it would be impossible for the village to meet their win condition with the Jeskeri still alive, right?? Is it just me or does it seem too easy to just say yay we convert one of you and we all win! Doesn't the point of a conversion alone negate that possibility? I am so confused. 

Edited August 6, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[Elenion he/him]

7 minutes ago, jaimeleecee said:

Woah. What happened here. An alliance with a conversion team, that would allow both teams to win?? That doesn't seem right to me at all... I understand that the converted player could win either way via their original team or the converted team but I can't see that win being for the ENTIRE village... The villages win condition is to  kill all the evil players I can't imagine that that wouldn't include a conversion team that also has a kill. Meaning that it would be impossible for the village to meet their win condition with the Jeskeri still alive, right?? Is it just me or does it seem too easy to just say yay we convert one of you and we all win! Doesn't the point of a conversion alone negate that possibility? I am so confused. 

The Jeskeri are not the primary elim faction, according to something Elodin says is in their doc. They are a Neutral team with a kill. All players converted to the Jeskeri are put into the doc and considered Jeskeri, but retain their previous alignment's win con as well as gaining a new one. The Jeskeri win con is to kill all non-Jeskeri players. What is proposed is that we get 1 Village player converted to the Jeskeri. The Jeskeri then use their kills on the primary elim team and non-converted villagers. With only Jeskeri left, the Jeskeri achieve their win condition. With the actual elims killed, the village have killed all eliminators and achieve their win condition, resulting in both teams claiming victory.

There are 2 possible problems with that plan:

1. Elodin could be lying outright and the Jeskeri are the full-out elims. The problem with this problem is that such a play seems almost suicidal for an actual elim team to attempt so early on. I could only see a few players actually having the audacity to try such a scheme: Maill is one, me another, STINK a third. I haven't played enough with Elodin to know if he would be crazy enough to attempt such a scam, but I don't think he would be.
2. The Jeskeri might be a Neutral-Evil team that cannot win with the village. This result could either come from misread rules or could be the actual Jeskeri plot: kill enough of us in the name of killing the other elims and the Jeskeri win a lynching majority.

@Master Elodin Can you ensure that this is correct, as well as provide any proof that you may have to show that my 2 concerns are invalid? It also would be good for you to PM Joe as to whether you can team-win with the village.

[little wilson she/her]

No, it's not just you. However, assuming the Jeskeri are truly neutral evil, we don't have to kill them to win. We only have to kill the eliminators. Additionally, we only have Elodin's word that the converted would be both alignments. It's simple for someone to lie about something like that, and the village will never know if that's true or not. Because if it's a lie, the converted is also going to lie and say that they can help the village win.

We cannot trust anything Elodin says. I say we kill him.

[Elenion he/him]

1 minute ago, little wilson said:

Additionally, we only have Elodin's word that the converted would be both alignments.

I have a proposition: Elodin gives us the name of an inactive Jeskeri player. We lynch him/her and see if they show up as neutral or neutral-evil. If the latter, we declare war. If the former, we make an alliance.

2 minutes ago, little wilson said:

I say we kill him.

I'd hold off on it tonight, but if we can't make a deal or the Jeskeri turn out N-E he gets both of my votes.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Well if the Jeskeri are being all nice and friendly then they'd have to convert all the Neutrals as well. Or at least, the ones whose goal it is to survive.

I don't really like the plan anyways. This game has too many unknowns and like Wilson said, all we've got is Elodin's word. I don't know that we need to kill Elodin, but I would like to make certain that there are Jeskeri in the game and that should let us know.

Ah, ninja'd by Elenion. Not a terrible idea, assuming there's an inactive Jeskeri. Elodin, got any inactives we could take out?

@The Only Joe, when they die, will the write-up differentiate between Neutral and Neutral-Evil players?

Edited August 6, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[little wilson she/her]

Their win con is to kill everyone else. Do you honestly think there's even a chance that they're pure neutral?! No. They are either neutral evil or evil. According to the rules of the game, neutrals can win with any faction. Neutral evils cannot win with the village. Why is this even a discussion?

[Renegade he/him]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of this conversion plan.  Not only would we be volunteering to have the entire citizen population massacred, but we'd be handing control of the game to a team whose win condition could very well be benefited by forging an alliance with the eliminators.

Edit: I have some time now, so I'm starting to work on an analysis of players and kills, which I should hopefully be done with tomorrow.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Renegade
Added stuff

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Some Rp for Rae:

 

Naara beamed back at Anelin "Yay! This is such fun!" She blinked and said in a more serious tone, "though, you must forgive me. I am rather.... particular about my patterns. Do try to avoid messing with them. My... reactions... are generally much less extreme.... but... i'm really quite particular about breakfast foods specifically. But in general, stick to a schedule and you'll be fine," she smiled an almost kind smile before it went back into her beaming over excited one. She then proceeded to order her biscuits. Naara then picked up her napkin, and proceeded to start folding it up into a little tiara.

 

---

Hm. The alliance with the Jeskeri…. Could work, but i’d know i’d be completely paranoid the entire time. As others have mentioned, we don’t know for certain that it really would work, and giving anyone permission to go kill all the citizens really doesn’t sound like a good idea. That feels like you’re more likely handing the game over to the evils and just throwing a true village win away. Hrm. Yeah. I don’t like the idea of the alliance. Even if it could work in some crazy way, there would be no way I'd have total trust in them.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

35 minutes ago, little wilson said:

No, it's not just you. However, assuming the Jeskeri are truly neutral evil, we don't have to kill them to win. We only have to kill the eliminators. Additionally, we only have Elodin's word that the converted would be both alignments. It's simple for someone to lie about something like that, and the village will never know if that's true or not. Because if it's a lie, the converted is also going to lie and say that they can help the village win.

We cannot trust anything Elodin says. I say we kill him.

Thank you. I'm not buying into this whatsoever.

23 minutes ago, little wilson said:

Their win con is to kill everyone else. Do you honestly think there's even a chance that they're pure neutral?! No. They are either neutral evil or evil. According to the rules of the game, neutrals can win with any faction. Neutral evils cannot win with the village. Why is this even a discussion?

Exactly. It does not make sense that their function would just allow for a village win, why even bother giving them a conversion if that would be the case... I completely agree that them having to kill everyone else=evil no matter how you spin it.

[Master Elodin]

7 minutes ago, jaimeleecee said:

Thank you. I'm not buying into this whatsoever.

Exactly. It does not make sense that their function would just allow for a village win, why even bother giving them a conversion if that would be the case... I completely agree that them having to kill everyone else=evil no matter how you spin it.

Well it's your loss. I'll see what I can do as to conversion. By the way, to prove at least our cooperation, we will kill someone of your request. We probably won't use the Jeskeri kill though.

Edit: I'll see what I can do as to an inactive. I'm watching the doc and opinions seem to be mixed. Anyways, Wilson, what's the village wincon? Can you please inform me?

Edit 2: SD, we came up with this Night 1. I can still see the doc, and they gave the go-ahead for negotiations.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Alvron he/him]

9 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

Well it's your loss. I'll see what I can do as to conversion. By the way, to prove at least our cooperation, we will kill someone of your request. We probably won't use the Jeskeri kill though.

So you have access to a non faction kill as well as a faction kill?  Interesting.

[Master Elodin]

Yeah. Only one though.

2 minutes ago, Alvron said:

So you have access to a non faction kill as well as a faction kill?  Interesting.

Edit: We have a lot of power because our faction is actually pretty small.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Alvron he/him]

2 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

Yeah. Only one though.

That would depend on who you convert.  Or who you have already converted.  I doubt you started with an extra kill so it's likely you converted a Chay-Shan user.  Those of you who know who the Chay-Shan users are should look more carefully at them.  One of them is likely a convert.

[Master Elodin]

21 minutes ago, Alvron said:

That would depend on who you convert.  Or who you have already converted.  I doubt you started with an extra kill so it's likely you converted a Chay-Shan user.  Those of you who know who the Chay-Shan users are should look more carefully at them.  One of them is likely a convert.

Of course. As of right now we only have one extraneous kill. Any requests anyone?

Edited August 6, 2016 by Master Elodin
Fixed, grammar, is,?

[little wilson she/her]

30 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

Anyways, Wilson, what's the village wincon? Can you please inform me?

From the rules:

On 7/19/2016 at 9:01 PM, The Only Joe said:

The Citizenry win when all the Eliminators are dead. PM's are Day only.

However, the rules also state the neutral evils cannot win with the village, so therefore they will be trying to kill the village. While we don't have to kill neutral evils to win, they'll be a hazard that isn't really worth dealing with if we know who they are. Since, you know, they're killing us. Since, you know, they can't win with us. #logic

[Master Elodin]

2 minutes ago, little wilson said:

From the rules:

However, the rules also state the neutral evils cannot win with the village, so therefore they will be trying to kill the village. While we don't have to kill neutral evils to win, they'll be a hazard that isn't really worth dealing with if we know who they are. Since, you know, they're killing us. Since, you know, they can't win with us. #logic

Unless I wasn't lying..

[Alvron he/him]

6 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

Of course. As of right now, we only have one extraneous kill. Any requests anyone?

We could make a better decision if you tell us who's on your team.  Wouldn't want to accidentally kill someone now would we.

[little wilson she/her]

7 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

Unless I wasn't lying..

A ridiculous gamble to make with someone who's confessed to wanting to kill all the villagers. If you have to kill the villagers to win, you are not neutral.

[Elenion he/him]

First, my new thoughts on the Jeskeri alliance:

• Looking at the rules it appears that the Jeskeri are most likely a Neutral-Evil faction
• N-E players cannot win with the village (per the rules)
• The N-E players want to kill the village, but they also want to kill the elims as well
• Seeing as the dual-win won't work, I suggest we do not make any permanent alliance with the Jeskeri
• However, they could be useful to outsource single kills to
• I don't think we should kill Elodin, but I do suggest we all watch him. Any unsanctioned Jeskeri kills and he dies.

Now, some RP

When Ashkelon heard footsteps on the stairs, his first instinct was to run.

It's assassins from my ex-partners! They've found me!

He looked at the room's only window, closed and almost too small to fit through. That wouldn't work. Ashkelon ran to the corner and grabbed the stout wooden staff he had leaned there as a contingency plan. He gave it a couple swings in preparation: whatever came, he would be ready. He held the staff halfway down its length and twirled it: one end swinging right, down, left, up, right, down--KLONK! The other end hit him square in the chin.

When the maid finally got up the stairs it was quite a sight to behold.

Ashkelon woke up a few minutes later, chin throbbing.