Long Game 24: The Godless City

[Amanuensis he/him]

32 minutes ago, Elenion said:

I'm ready to release Ren due to the arguments I've heard, but not ready to put my vote on Aman.

Arguments? No one has argued anything for Ren, let alone against me. Literally all of the votes on me are either because what happened just has to be too convenient (when I've already explained how it would have been impossible for me to set all of that up), because Wilson was too smart to misunderstand the rules (which if she wasn't able to misunderstand the rules, how could I possible trick her?), or because there's a possibility of a redirection role (that there's no evidence of and even if it were true, how is an ability somebody else has but me indicative of my alignment at all?).

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in everyone voting for me / arguing the possibility that I'm evil right now (especially you, Len, after me pretty much backing you up this whole game and even helping you out when it looked like you were going to be lynched on D2 by making sure no one but Mailliw died). I've been consistently on a bunch of confirmed village players trust lists since D1, which there's no way I could have pulled off if I'm an eliminator, and I've also been Arrested non-stop and therefore it's impossible for me to be A: The Serial Killer, B: The Jeskeri Practitioner or C: Imaginary Redirect Role. Seriously. How does it make any sense to lynch someone who has undeniably not done a single evil thing this entire game over a player who has mostly been lurking until the Jeskeri suddenly make their first move and most of the players capable of rallying the village against them were killed or implicated in the process?

Edited August 8, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Sart he/him]

@The Only Joe If someone targeted Magestar, would they have been affected by the Practictioner?

[A Joe in the Bush]

No. Only if they had targeted the prisoner.

[Kipper]

21 hours ago, Elenion said:

Joe has corroborated your story and you are now back in my "Neutral Reads" category.

The order is already in. 

I'm with Rae here, @Renegade. I have a few suspicions about Aman, but Orlok has corroborated his story so far. If you can punch a hole in it and prove that @Amanuensis lied I'm more than happy to switch my votes.

A final note: a couple days ago (I could get the post if it proved important) I put a vote on Renegade due to Maill's info dump. @Kipper almost immediately tried to disprove the dump, and since I had no reason not to trust Kipper I retracted my vote. If Ren ends up being an elim, chances are Kipper is too.

I think you should have a higher opinion of me as an Eliminator than to think I would deliberately say an info dump is wrong because a hypothetical teammate is on the list. As for "immediately tried to disprove," don't mistake correlation for causation or anything else. I said stuff about the dump because it conflicted with the claims I've seen, and based on the kills last Night, was factually wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

That's an interesting point, and one that makes me feel more certain about Ren. In my notes, I have Kipper as very-likely non-Village. He's been doing a lot of harmful things this game for seemingly no reason (intentionally acting suspicious in PMs), as well as trolling Wilson to the point where she put a vote on him out of frustration. Ren, Sart and/or Bard being evil too could certainly explain why he was arguing so much against Mailliw's list. Now, I'm not saying the last is entirely accurate, or should be interpreted that way. For example, my role on there is wrong, and I never role claimed to Mailliw. But I really don't believe what Elodin was saying about conversions last night and Ren being put down as a conversion role in the Mailliw's list is a complete coincidence.

See my comments above to Elenion.

1. Wilson never said I was trollling her. She said other stuff, so don't misrepresent it. She knew my actual role before she died, thanks to Stink, which is why she stopped pushing on me.
2. Again, see my comments above about my objections to Maill's list. Why even mention that you're "not saying the list is entirely accurate," or even mention the list at all, since we can clearly see based on last Night that it was wrong?

 

Also, I'm having trouble concentrating on the game at present because of a lot more work and responsibility at work than usual, but it should clear up tomorrow...just in time for college book shopping.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Kipper

[Emerald101 he/him]

3 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Let me get this straight. You're voting for me because "Wilson is not a dumb player." And then you go on to say that the reason for protecting me has to be that I manipulated her. Those two points directly contradict themselves. There is no feasible way I could have tricked Wilson into thinking I needed extra protection. I was Arrested. She knew I was Arrested. Everyone knew I was Arrested. Magestar, the Legionnaire, literally told the thread that I was safe. Wilson knew Magestar was the Legionnaire. Where is the disconnect here?

Emphasis mine

The disconnect occurs when we can't be sure that this was the case. The only evidence that tells us that this master PM occurred is your word and Orlok's. Wilson may or may not have known the information that you say she did. Given only the information the thread knew, it's possible that Wilson tried to protect you from being "double tapped". And while you make some good points in your defense, the evidence on Ren is incomplete. Barring stronger evidence in the next 40 minutes, I'll have to sit this one out. I wish I could stick around to form a more definite opinion, but I will be unable to be on for about the last six hours before rollover.

Edit: Aman. meant to do that in the original post.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Emerald101
Also, edited time to be correct. I might learn to read a clock one day.

[Arrae]

The attack on Aman isn't alignment indicative by itself, and a lot of evidence seems unverifiable (Aman's multiple PMs). I think it's weird that Wilson protected Aman, because she apparently is a stickler for rules, and Joe was online to answer questions at the time. Also, Wilson said that she hates codes, so I doubt she and Aman communicated at all during the Night. Elodin didn't say he was going to attack Aman until the Night, so I doubt that during the Day, Aman convinced Wilson that he needed double protection AND that the Legionnaire only protects from one kill attempt.

I also trust Aman more because so many different people, some who are dead villagers, got village reads on him. Confirmed good is not confirmed right, but when a lot of different people say that they all have a strong village read on the same person, I trust that person a little more.

I don't think Kipper must be an eliminator because he discredited Maill's list. Maill's list is wrong. He made up claims, made up roles, and tweaked the list to maximize his fun. I claimed Neutral beggar to Maill, but he only put me down as a normal beggar. Why? He didn't want to take the joy from my (false) neutrality. I'd rather ignore the list, unless I want to give myself headaches trying to out-mindgame Maill.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

16 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Y'know, I didn't really cover this angle before, but it could be that Aman is a Cultist but didn't plan for Wilson and Jaime to protect him and his buddies just targeted him as a WGG of sorts and so they could take out Magestar and Elodin and the fact that Wilson and Jaime targeted him was just lucky for them. Although someone may have brought this up before. I don't know, I'm really sleep right now, so I can't remember and don't want to go through all the posts again. Anyways, just a thought. I don't really feel comfortable with the Ren lynch, since everyone is basically accusing him for exactly what I said and thought and I know I'm village.

Sart, hm. I don't think we should lynch Stink. I personally believe his claim of Neutral and I don't want to ruin his fun when it's not even really the best idea anyways. We really should be focusing on lynching a Jeskeri, not killing people that could potentially hurt us later on. At least that's my opinion.

One thing I do know. I'd like it if more people weighed in on the situation. @Burnt Spaghetti, @Aonar Faileas, what do you think about this Aman v. Ren thing? I'd ping the other quieter players, but I can't even remember who they are.  Oh wait. @TheSilverDragon We need everyone to be fully participating in discussion if we want to have a legitimate chance at winning this people!

Also, I'll be gone for most of tomorrow, so don't expect PM responses any time soon if you PM me. I will almost definitely get back with you before the end of the Day though.

What do i think....

Firstly, i apologise for not turning up earlier, been getting sick so havent been focusing on SE too much.

Hm

As someone else has mentioned, i think that its srange that people have gone from Aman is totally good to aman is totally evil. I wouldnt be willing to put my vote on him. I havent studied the thread much thoygh, why was ren sus?

[Young Bard he/him]

Sorry I haven't posted yet this cycle. I've been busy with RL stuff. I wanted to get a vote and analysis posted before rollover, so I've dashed to my local library in my lunch break to post this.

There are a massive number of people not voting, which is a problem. The eliminators could be only a few turns from winning, and letting them control the lynch would be a bad idea. Please, if you're lurking, place a vote down on whoever you think is suspicious, with a few lines of reasoning.

That said, it's basically between Aman and Ren this close to rollover. I'm not sure I'm particularly suspicious of Ren, but Aman was one of my strongest trusts before today (and many others as well), and I don't want there to be a chance of the Eliminators pulling a bandwagon at the last minute against him. So, Ren.

Analysis and general thoughts are being typed up, but I want to make sure as many people see this before rollover, so I'll post this now.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

What's the vote tally look like?

As the Day has progressed, I've been getting increasingly suspicious of Aman. His latest posts have sounded a bit like evil!Aman to me. I also am thinking Burnt is evil alongside him. I'm voting Aman. I'm sorry for the lack of reasoning, but I wanted to get my vote down and since it's so late, I don't really have the time to type out much explanation.

[STINK he/him]

It's late? Oh it is. Nearly 4AM.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

It's late in the Day Turn.  Only about 1 hour left.

Vote tally:

Ren(4): Aman, Rae, Conq, Bard
Aman(3): Ren, Aonar, Lopen
Stink(1): Sart

I think that's right.

[Arrae]

26 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

What's the vote tally look like?

As the Day has progressed, I've been getting increasingly suspicious of Aman. His latest posts have sounded a bit like evil!Aman to me. I also am thinking Burnt is evil alongside him. I'm voting Aman. I'm sorry for the lack of reasoning, but I wanted to get my vote down and since it's so late, I don't really have the time to type out much explanation.

What does evil!Aman sound like?

[STINK he/him]

Evil.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

4 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

What does evil!Aman sound like?

It's more like I can see the wind of lies that flows around him when he's evil. (< anime reference )

I can't explain it really... Basically I just mean that I've noticed things about his posts that sound like something he'd say as an eliminator.

[Arrae]

Just now, TheMightyLopen said:

It's more like I can see the wind of lies that flows around him when he's evil. (< anime reference )

I can't explain it really... Basically I just mean that I've noticed things about his posts that sound like something he'd say as an eliminator.

Can you point out specifically what these things are, either in one of his current posts or a post from a game where he was an eliminator?

[Amanuensis he/him]

Are you serious, Lopen? Are you evil too?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

8 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Arguments? No one has argued anything for Ren, let alone against me. Literally all of the votes on me are either because what happened just has to be too convenient (when I've already explained how it would have been impossible for me to set all of that up), because Wilson was too smart to misunderstand the rules (which if she wasn't able to misunderstand the rules, how could I possible trick her?), or because there's a possibility of a redirection role (that there's no evidence of and even if it were true, how is an ability somebody else has but me indicative of my alignment at all?).

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in everyone voting for me / arguing the possibility that I'm evil right now (especially you, Len, after me pretty much backing you up this whole game and even helping you out when it looked like you were going to be lynched on D2 by making sure no one but Mailliw died). I've been consistently on a bunch of confirmed village players trust lists since D1, which there's no way I could have pulled off if I'm an eliminator, and I've also been Arrested non-stop and therefore it's impossible for me to be A: The Serial Killer, B: The Jeskeri Practitioner or C: Imaginary Redirect Role. Seriously. How does it make any sense to lynch someone who has undeniably not done a single evil thing this entire game over a player who has mostly been lurking until the Jeskeri suddenly make their first move and most of the players capable of rallying the village against them were killed or implicated in the process?

Emphasis mine

Those felt pretty evil to me.

[Sart he/him]

I went and did an analysis on Renegade's Posts:

1. Advocates PM safety.
2. Wonders why we haven't lynched STINK yet?
3. Votes on Ecth, who dies that night by Philosopher. Defends Elenion, and slightly defends Emerald.
4. Goes to an amusement park. Wheeee!
5. Goes back on his word and votes for Elenion. Explains that Elenion went too quiet after the insanity of Day 1.
6. Points out that Elenion claimed both Pirate and Duke day 1 to Lopen. Lopen later clarifies that Elenion said he was "working with" a Duke.
7. Changes his vote to Maill.
8. Then he goes back to Elenion to make the game interesting.
9. After Maill's "info" dump, he votes Maill again. He laughs at being called a conversion role.
10. Ren has been looking at colleges. Don't worry Ren, college is a lot easier than high school. He also apologized for not posting as much.
11. He was not a fan of the fake conversion plan.
12. He does a big post. It's an analysis of the kill targets. I need to break this one down into sub-parts.
    1. He was worried about ending up dead. Seems like an odd concern.
    2. Doesn't understand why the philosopher targeted Ecth or Conquestor
    3. Distances himself from Alvron's death, claiming he wasn't privy to Alv being protected. He assumes Alvron was jailed.
    4. Believes there is a second Chay Shan due to Emerald's attack.
    5. He argues that having a group of well-protected trusted players is bad, especially if there is a conversion role.
    6. Advocates not clearing anyone who was targeted for a kill. Ironic, considering what happened last night.

His last post night three seemed a little off. Other than that, he's been posting short posts that haven't been very telling of alignment. If he's a Jeskeri, I suspect that Emerald is on his team, and that Elenion is innocent. If he is evil, I would guess that he is the Philosopher, since he was the only one noticing Ecth.

[TheSilverDragon he/him]

So, these are the people I'm most suspicious of right now.

1. Aman- mostly because it would have been hard to get that many people to target him, unless he was trying

2. Lopen- just a gut read basically, and he hasn't posted as much as other games, I think. Don't know if  that's an indicator of evilness.

3. Ren- because of his early vote, but I'm not too suspicious

[Arrae]

2 minutes ago, TheSilverDragon said:

So, these are the people I'm most suspicious of right now.

1. Aman- mostly because it would have been hard to get that many people to target him, unless he was trying

2. Lopen- just a gut read basically, and he hasn't posted as much as other games, I think. Don't know if  that's an indicator of evilness.

3. Ren- because of his early vote, but I'm not too suspicious

Um, SD? Aman and Ren are trying to get each other lynched. If both of them are Jeskeri, that is a gutsy move.

[Eolhondras he/him]

The fact that this seems 'too convenient' IMO works in Aman's favour. We have a strong player, that many others have observed working for the village, with the potential to lose his head based on a position that could well have been orchestrated by redirects or other means. I'd rather not risk losing one of our most vocal members based on far fetched hypotheticals. 

Ren , is the only other real option right now so that's where my vote is going.

@Elenion I don't see how as an 'aggressive player' you could just back off either player. I'd rather not lynch both, so make a choice, as with Silver dragons noble vote it could well be tied.

 

 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

The votes are tied now.

Since I did forget to respond to the accusation about me not posting as much as other games/being lazy, I feel like I've added my opinion on most subjects. I don't really know what else I could have said. I am lazy sometimes though. Sorry.  Also, thread discussion hasn't been that great this game, due to a lot of players lurking/not posting due to whatever reason, so my reads haven't been very good so far, which has lead to me not being a leader in the lynch, which I have been a lot in past games(but only when I get a lead worth pursuing).

[STINK he/him]

As a neutral, I can do many things. Such as really annoy someone for really no reason.

Ren

If it makes you feel better, at least now you won't get distracted by SE?

[A Joe in the Bush]

Gah, humbug.

Rollover and writeup in 15 minutes. there won't be a story to read, because I'm locked out of my google accounts right now. Viruses suck.

[Elenion he/him]

I've been off for a bunch of hours, so I just caught up with what's happened since I last posted. What appears to have happened is Ren going on to attempt to leverage his position into a lynch on Aman. Aman, me, and multiple other players called him on it, and he hasn't posted since (that I've seen, I skimmed the last bit). Kipper's defense sounded legit to me, but I still have a strong village read on Aman ever since he helped me clean up the mess I got into earlier with Lopen, most of which was in PM but a fair amount of which spilled over into thread. With a strong village read on Aman and him dangerously close to the lynch, I cannot in good conscience vote on anybody but Ren.