Glys

[+Kolten]

5 hours ago, Erklitt said:

What if Glys is the same kind of spren that provide Parshendi nightform? That wouldn't answer the question whether Glys is lying or not: Truthwatcher spren could in fact be the same as Parshendi nightform spren. Or not.

 

I like it! This seems plausible, 

 

5 hours ago, Erklitt said:

So what if Glys looks all dark and shadowy? The stanza about nightform fits Renarin surprisingly well (again from the Song of Secrets):

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Nightform predicting what will be,
The form of shadows, mind to foresee.
As the gods did leave, the nightform whispered.
A new storm will come, someday to break.
A new storm a new world to make.
A new storm a new path to take, the nightform listens.

Listener Song of Secrets 17th Stanza
WoR Ch. 23 Assassin Epigraph

 

That stanza almost feels like the nightform is giving parting words, like they were leaving some hope as they left. I always assumed that the gods that were leaving were odium and the unmade, but I guess it could be a reference to honor/cultivation and their spren's decision to abandon the parshendi for humans, leaving them to odium. That would have many implications . . .

5 hours ago, Erklitt said:

All we've seen him 'foresee' so far is the everstorm. Maybe the 'form of shadows' even has something to do with Renarin's stealth while writing the glyphs. A manifestation of the Truthwatcher variant of Lightweaving, or a lying imitation of it, depending on whether or not Glys is telling the truth?

 

Shallan mainly uses Lightweaving it for disguise and stealth, so it would not be a stretch for Renarin to use it the same way. Renarin does not seem as artistic, he almost feels more scientific. Maybe truthwatchers use their lightweaving surge for more physicy effects, like bending light around himself to become invisible. That would be sweet

Edited July 27, 2016 by Kolten

[maxal she/her]

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Just posting to clarify one thing for Maxal, and then I will stop so the thread will stop being derailed. So the attorney misrepresented what he meant by poison is always 1st degree murder. What it actually means is if you kill someone with poison, and you are found guilty, the charge would be 1st degree. Not anytime you use poison its murder. Do you see the difference now? I did some research and although the poster never says what state he is from, it appears he is from california. What he is referencing is a class of weapons or occurrences that if found guilty would be considered 1st degree. They impliments/instances listed are as follows:

The means of killing that qualify a homicide as first degree murder include weapons of mass destruction, bombs or explosive devices, armor-piercing ammunition, poison, and firearms shot from a motor vehicle.

Homicide is defined as the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another. So as I said, if you are already proven guilty of homicide, they then determine the level hence 1st degree, 2nd degree and so on. If you were convicted of homicide and used the above listed means then it would be considered 1st degree. This is in regards to California state law. The poster goes on to say in comment  120 that you referenced that Shallan was still under the affect of her snapping, and the issue would be convincing the jury that she was still under the affect of said snapping after the "break" of cooling down. 

As I said the main reason for this post was to explain the misunderstanding in regards to the poison as a murder weapon and "always" being considered 1st degree. I will go into all this and more in depth with my post (i am contemplating calling it "Law and Order: Radiant Unit, Stormlight Edition lol), so given the scope it may take me a bit, but I am optimistic. Now back to our regularly scheduled program, er I mean thread. 

Sorry I will keep this brief as well...

Even if it wasn't clearly identified as such, I think it was implies killing with the use of poison almost always is charged as 1st degree murder. It doesn't say it isn't possible not to get a lesser charge, he even says, in the case of Shallan, she'd likely get it to avoid running on an expensive trial, but it is implies, or such is my understanding, it would be difficult to lower the charges were a real process to happen. What he says is if the means define the intend, then it always is first degree murder. For instances, if you shoot someone with you gun, then you have to prove you didn't have the intention to kill him and it was an accident. When poison is used, it is impossible for you to use deadly poison and not have the intention to kill. If she has used only the poison and her father had survived, she'd still get heavy charges for attempted murder. I referenced a post where he talks about that. I cannot say about the laws in the States, but in Canada the charges are nearly as bad. If you intended to kill someone, whether you succeeded or not, you still get hefty punishment. 

You'd have to find if jurisprudence even allows for poison to be consider legitimate defense. Maybe the case can be made, but it safe to say Shallan certainly isn't off the block and it seems certain she would mostly likely get prison time. How long as yet to be determined.

At comment @120, he states he could go for a "battered women charge" which is the equivalent of a "crime of passion", but the fact she strangulated her father after having poisoned him would make it a hard sell. He says he'd have to convince the jury she didn't have the time to cool down in between the two acts and he was still under the effect of the snapping. He implies that while he may try for this defense, it wasn't a won case. 

In the case of Nale, which was the item of interest, I'd say he'd considers Shallan actions as murders. It is undeniable she has killed her parents and since she was never trialed for those murders, she was never pardoned for them. Literal interpretation of the law would say she is guilty of murder. For Nale to loose his legal means, it would require Shallan to undergo a trial and to be found not guilty, according to the law, but since she did commit the act, until she is trialed, she is guilty. 

Unless Jah Keved laws are similar to Canada which are you are non-guilty until proven guilty, but even then Shallan's guilt is obvious. Was is not obvious is which legal punishment she would get.

1 hour ago, Kolten said:

Shallan mainly uses Lightweaving it for disguise and stealth, so it would not be a stretch for Renarin to use it the same way. Renarin does not seem as artistic, he almost feels more scientific. Maybe truthwatchers use their lightweaving surge for more physicy effects, like bending light around himself to become invisible. That would be sweet

It has been my assumption as well. I do not think it requires great artistic talents to bend the light around oneself to appear invisible. 

[Pathfinder]

40 minutes ago, maxal said:

Sorry I will keep this brief as well...

Even if it wasn't clearly identified as such, I think it was implies killing with the use of poison almost always is charged as 1st degree murder. It doesn't say it isn't possible not to get a lesser charge, he even says, in the case of Shallan, she'd likely get it to avoid running on an expensive trial, but it is implies, or such is my understanding, it would be difficult to lower the charges were a real process to happen. What he says is if the means define the intend, then it always is first degree murder. For instances, if you shoot someone with you gun, then you have to prove you didn't have the intention to kill him and it was an accident. When poison is used, it is impossible for you to use deadly poison and not have the intention to kill. If she has used only the poison and her father had survived, she'd still get heavy charges for attempted murder. I referenced a post where he talks about that. I cannot say about the laws in the States, but in Canada the charges are nearly as bad. If you intended to kill someone, whether you succeeded or not, you still get hefty punishment. 

You'd have to find if jurisprudence even allows for poison to be consider legitimate defense. Maybe the case can be made, but it safe to say Shallan certainly isn't off the block and it seems certain she would mostly likely get prison time. How long as yet to be determined.

At comment @120, he states he could go for a "battered women charge" which is the equivalent of a "crime of passion", but the fact she strangulated her father after having poisoned him would make it a hard sell. He says he'd have to convince the jury she didn't have the time to cool down in between the two acts and he was still under the effect of the snapping. He implies that while he may try for this defense, it wasn't a won case. 

In the case of Nale, which was the item of interest, I'd say he'd considers Shallan actions as murders. It is undeniable she has killed her parents and since she was never trialed for those murders, she was never pardoned for them. Literal interpretation of the law would say she is guilty of murder. For Nale to loose his legal means, it would require Shallan to undergo a trial and to be found not guilty, according to the law, but since she did commit the act, until she is trialed, she is guilty. 

Unless Jah Keved laws are similar to Canada which are you are non-guilty until proven guilty, but even then Shallan's guilt is obvious. Was is not obvious is which legal punishment she would get.

It has been my assumption as well. I do not think it requires great artistic talents to bend the light around oneself to appear invisible. 

Nevada begs to differ, but this can all be discussed further when I post the thread I mentioned. Otherwise this is going to continue to go back and forth taking away from the point of the current thread. 

[Stormgate he/him]

About Glys being nightform spren:

Honorspren are, in appearance, more intelligent windspren. Cryptics seem to be similar with creationspren, constantly shifting and changing, but Cryptics are more intelligent. It is not unlikely that every order has these dumbspren that are drawn to the Radiant. Having recently read some stanzas about the spren and Listeners, smarter spren favor humans. Artform can come by bonding creationspren. 

What I'm getting at is that the dumbspren of the Truthwatchers may be the spren that provide nightform.

[Madninja324]

Nobody's said what happens to a Radiant's Spren after the Radiant dies, so here's my out there theory of the day (I'm not entirely sure of the timeline here, I don't have WoR on hand at the moment, so I'm not sure where Ym's death is in comparison to Renarin's eyes healing, which was the first major sign that he'd become a Truthwatcher if I'm remembering this right): What if Glys IS Ym's Spren? If I recall correctly Ym never says his Spren's name, and after losing Ym Glys decided to find a new bondmate rather than return to Shadesmar

[Eki]

28 minutes ago, Madninja324 said:

Nobody's said what happens to a Radiant's Spren after the Radiant dies, so here's my out there theory of the day (I'm not entirely sure of the timeline here, I don't have WoR on hand at the moment, so I'm not sure where Ym's death is in comparison to Renarin's eyes healing, which was the first major sign that he'd become a Truthwatcher if I'm remembering this right): What if Glys IS Ym's Spren? If I recall correctly Ym never says his Spren's name, and after losing Ym Glys decided to find a new bondmate rather than return to Shadesmar

In the instances we've seen, spren have tended to hang around their human for a while before there are any visible effects of the bond (possibly because it takes a while before spren start the bonding process, or possibly because the bonding just takes a while). Renarin and Ym are very far away from each other, as well. I don't remember the timline either, so I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it's very unlikely.

[JUQ he/him]

Now, I've just had a craaazy idea.
Lift is female, Wyndle is male
Kaladin is male, Syl is female
Jasnah is female, Ivory is male
Shallan is female and bisexual, Pattern is sort of both male and female.

So, what if Glys is male? Does that mean Renarin is gay?

[Rasarr she/her]

5 hours ago, JUQ said:

So, what if Glys is male? Does that mean Renarin is gay?

You're not the first one to come up with this, and the answer is, as far as we knwo, nope. Glys is, indeed, male, but Brandon has confirmed before that the gender of your spren has no connection with your sexual orientation (can't give you the quote - Theoryland doesn't let me in).

Spren are apparently "matched" to Radiants based on what the Radiant is "missing", for lack of a better world - Syl is optimistic, while Kaladin is almost caustic, Wyndle is stable while Lift is wilder, etc. With Renarin being raised in Vorin faith, and feeling very useless and non-combatant (and therefore, unmanly), this could result in a male spren.

[Pagerunner he/him]

10 hours ago, JUQ said:

Now, I've just had a craaazy idea.
Lift is female, Wyndle is male
Kaladin is male, Syl is female
Jasnah is female, Ivory is male
Shallan is female and bisexual, Pattern is sort of both male and female.

So, what if Glys is male? Does that mean Renarin is gay?

Here's Brandon's latest comments on the question.

As for Shallan, he has not actively written her as bisexual, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on Pattern's gender from that.

[Krandacth]

8 hours ago, Rasarr said:

Spren are apparently "matched" to Radiants based on what the Radiant is "missing", for lack of a better world - Syl is optimistic, while Kaladin is almost caustic, Wyndle is stable while Lift is wilder, etc. With Renarin being raised in Vorin faith, and feeling very useless and non-combatant (and therefore, unmanly), this could result in a male spren.

I've never heard that before! Is it a WoB? One of my theories predicts something similar to this, but not exactly as you said it, so I'd love to know the original source.

[Rasarr she/her]

16 hours ago, Krandacth said:

I've never heard that before! Is it a WoB? One of my theories predicts something similar to this, but not exactly as you said it, so I'd love to know the original source.

You'd have to search "glys" in Theoryland, because I'm fairly confident that the question about his gender and Renarin's orientation has been answered by Brandon, but whenever I try to get to Theoryland, I get 403 error, so I'm unfortunately unable to provide you with the direct quote.

[Pagerunner he/him]

2 hours ago, Rasarr said:

You'd have to search "glys" in Theoryland, because I'm fairly confident that the question about his gender and Renarin's orientation has been answered by Brandon, but whenever I try to get to Theoryland, I get 403 error, so I'm unfortunately unable to provide you with the direct quote.

I think @Krandacth was referring to how spren will be an opposite yet complementary personality. I haven't seen any WoB's on that; it's just a theory of yours, right?

[Krandacth]

3 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

I think @Krandacth was referring to how spren will be an opposite yet complementary personality. I haven't seen any WoB's on that; it's just a theory of yours, right?

@Rasarr This is what I was referring to, yes

[Rasarr she/her]

21 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

I think @Krandacth was referring to how spren will be an opposite yet complementary personality. I haven't seen any WoB's on that; it's just a theory of yours, right?

Hm. I'd swear I've seen a WoB on that, but that might be my mind playing tricks on me. I am fairly certain I've seen this discussed on the Shard before, so I'm certain that's not something I came up with.

[maxal she/her]

14 hours ago, Rasarr said:

Hm. I'd swear I've seen a WoB on that, but that might be my mind playing tricks on me. I am fairly certain I've seen this discussed on the Shard before, so I'm certain that's not something I came up with.

There is a WoB, I remember this, but it will be hard to find. There was a topic on spren's sexuality a while back in this section of the forum. The WoB lingers in there. 

[Rasarr she/her]

The best I've managed to find is here:

More specifically, this part: 

2/ KR seemed to have opposite gender spren. Why is Glys male then ? Is there something hidden there ?

Brandon : More naturally, the spren is opposite gender but it doesn't have to be. It's not a indication necessarily of homosexuality, but sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. More often, you'll attract spren of the opposite gender, but spren genders are very fluid anyway. You're not supposed to read anything specific into that.

[Krandacth]

Yeah, that's the closest I found after some dedicated searching of old threads, and it really isn't about complementary personalities. It is interesting that there seems to be some grounding for Nahel Bonds to often be cross-gendered... I'm not happy ascribing to a theory on this until we see more with Glys and Renarin. I think at least one reason Brandon could be keeping him so secret is what their relationship reveals about the Nahel Bond, though.