mistborn spoiler Sigzil and Brass

[Sam Script he/him]

I suspect that Sigzil might be a Allomancer.

In WoR ch.71, Teft along with Sigzil was doing nightwatch and waiting for Kaladin to make a comeback from chasms. And Teft kept talking about Envisagers and his past. But it's... kinda strange.

Quote two paragraphs here:

Spoiler

Sigzil nodded in that mild, yet infuriating way of his. The Azish man just knew things. And he made you tell him things too.

Spoiler

“So what did you do?” Sigzil asked softly, pulling tight the string on his little bag of rocks.

“Ain’t none of your business,” Teft said. “Don’t know why I’m even talking to you.”

“It’s all right,” Sigzil said. “I can see—”

“I turned them in,” Teft blurted out. “To the citylord. He held a trial for them, a big one. . . .”

Sigzil seems to let Teft tell a lot unknowingly... is it just my overthinking, or he's actually burning Brass to let Teft speak? He was asking Teft something in the beginning of the chapter, so he does have a motivation---but that's not the topic here.

We all know his mentor was Hoid. What if Hoid, accidentally or deliberately, made him become a Allomancer?

 

Extra: We also recognized Nahel Bond. But have anyone thought about Who the hell Nahel is?

What do you think?

Edited July 26, 2016 by Sam Script

[Erklitt]

Certainly a very interesting idea.

@Sam Script Maybe it's a good idea to put a 'Mistborn Spoilers' marker in the topic title, or we will have to put half of our arguments in spoiler boxes.

I'm not sure Hoid could have made him an Allomancer by accident - I have no idea how anyone could become an Allomancer outside Scadrial except through a lerasium bead.

I see only two possibilities:
- Sigzil is a Worldhopper
- Hoid gave him his lerasium

Both might be possible.
- Sigzil is called Azish, but that might be a cover. I can find no solid reason against Sigzil being a Worldhopper,
- And Hoid had that bead.

I tend to think this excerpt from Hoid's letter is about the lerasium bead:

Quote

Let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.
WoK Ch. 14 Payday p. 211 kindle edition

While Sigzil might be considered a 'good home', the latter half doesn't seem to fit - except if the letter was written while they were still together, and Sigzil was under Hoid's protection. Possible - we know Hoid actually did some protecting ('saving him'). And I might misinterpret that passage anyway.

One more point in support: there are brass plates used on Roshar. He could have the trace minerals in his stomach.

Quote

Sadeas's half-eaten meal still sat on the table, brass plate scattered with chunks of meat and torn flatbread.
WoK Ch. 22 Eyes, Hands, or Spheres? p. 335 kindle edition

There's no mention of pewter anywhere in SA so far (kindle search is a great help in such things). So, in case he's a Mistborn, there's no problem about why he doesn't manifest extraordinary strength and speed. The other metals are probably not used so easily by instinct - see Vin.

So my conclusion: quite possible! Though I'm not sure I think it likely... but I like the idea!

[Eki]

Is that second paragraph from Sigzil's PoV?

[goody153]

This is really interesting, i read WoR like too many times and i didn't even notice that was weird.

[Emerald101 he/him]

1 hour ago, Erklitt said:

The other metals are probably not used so easily by instinct - see Vin.

IIRC the reason Vin wasn't burning the other metals instinctively was because there wasn't enough traces of them in her diet. There was brass in the water and pewter from the utensils she used, but she didn't ingest enough of the other metals to use them. And if Hoid had made Sigzil a mistborn, don't you think he would've taught Sigzil at least the basics of allomancy?

[Erklitt]

2 hours ago, Eki said:

Is that second paragraph from Sigzil's PoV?

No, it's Teft's. AFAIK, we have no Sigzil POVs.

49 minutes ago, Emerald101 said:

IIRC the reason Vin wasn't burning the other metals instinctively was because there wasn't enough traces of them in her diet. There was brass in the water and pewter from the utensils she used, but she didn't ingest enough of the other metals to use them. And if Hoid had made Sigzil a mistborn, don't you think he would've taught Sigzil at least the basics of allomancy?

Whether the problem is instinct or lack of metals, each could be the reason in both cases.  You made me wonder: how do skaa Mistings discover their Allomancy at all? How do they realize they've snapped, if they never imbibe their metal by accident and no one tests them? After the mist sickness it takes Elend's sudden idea to find the new Mistings. What was it like for Clubs, for example? How does one discover that one can burn copper?  That may actually be a hole in the Mistborn world building... anyway, so let's say Sigzil never imbibed pewter or tin. They do have tin cups on Roshar (just checked), but that doesn't mean Sigzil regularly drinks from one.

As to your second argument: who says Hoid didn't teach him? Do we know he isn't doing it on purpose? Without a Sigzil POV we really cannot tell. The biggest question for me is: why would Hoid give his lerasium to Sigzil? But he's Hoid, so asking a 'why' question is not likely to get an answer anytime soon.

Edit: Sigzil is a very reticent man. Again, I don't think this whole theory very likely, but in my opinion it's not quite impossible that Sigzil could hide such a secret.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Erklitt

[Khyrindor he/him]

3 hours ago, Erklitt said:

I see only two possibilities:
- Sigzil is a Worldhopper
- Hoid gave him his lerasium

Both might be possible.
- Sigzil is called Azish, but that might be a cover. I can find no solid reason against Sigzil being a Worldhopper,
- And Hoid had that bead.

I tend to think this excerpt from Hoid's letter is about the lerasium bead:

While Sigzil might be considered a 'good home', the latter half doesn't seem to fit - except if the letter was written while they were still together, and Sigzil was under Hoid's protection. Possible - we know Hoid actually did some protecting ('saving him'). And I might misinterpret that passage anyway.

One more point in support: there are brass plates used on Roshar. He could have the trace minerals in his stomach.

There's no mention of pewter anywhere in SA so far (kindle search is a great help in such things). So, in case he's a Mistborn, there's no problem about why he doesn't manifest extraordinary strength and speed. The other metals are probably not used so easily by instinct - see Vin.

So my conclusion: quite possible! Though I'm not sure I think it likely... but I like the idea!

Unfortunately, Sigzil is not a worldhopper. That said, I suppose it is possible that he has been used by Hoid for something. Source.

Quote

HEROWANNABE ()

Is Sigzil, as Hoid's apprentice, Rosharan?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He is from Roshar.

HEROWANNABE

Has Hoid taken him to other worlds?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, Sig hasn't visited any other worlds.

 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Khyrindor

[Erunion he/him]

Could it be that Hoid used a shaving of Lerasium alloyed with Brass to make Sigzil a Brass Misting? Leaving the bulk of the Lerasium unused? 

[Radiant Returned he/him]

2 hours ago, Erklitt said:

You made me wonder: how do skaa Mistings discover their Allomancy at all? How do they realize they've snapped, if they never imbibe their metal by accident and no one tests them? After the mist sickness it takes Elend's sudden idea to find the new Mistings. What was it like for Clubs, for example? How does one discover that one can burn copper?  That may actually be a hole in the Mistborn world building...

For skaa I think a lot of them simply didn't. At some point if they reach a certain amount of wealth or rebellion I'd imagine they buy a vial of metals and try burning all of them. Go from there, I assume that's what the nobles did. There aren't a lot of Skaa mistings in Mistborn besides those that are already rebelling. 

As far as Sigzil goes, I hadn't noticed those passages and it's an interesting theory. But while there isn't anything substantive I can think of that proves the theory wrong, I think it's more likely based on Sigzil's personality that he's just a good listener and understands humans and so is easy to open up to. 

[Sam Script he/him]

There was a scene popped into my mind: Hoid might touched the Lerasium and occasionally made it attached to something's surface, and Sigzil absorb it into the body. For short, Hoid wasn't meant to do that.

If Sigzil were Cosmere-awared, he would show more signs of these knowledges before. Yes he's not a worldhopper, yet. But it wouldn't matter if his Allomancy was gained accidentally. Hence, of course, Hoid wouldn't have written it in the Letter, not to mention teaching him Allomancy.

While it might be just Sigzil's personal qualities; it is 50% possible as well.

I don't really think my discovery is quite convincing, I don't even consider it a "theory" XD. Just wanna see other's opinions OuO.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Sam Script

[+Kolten]

@Sam Script good catch! I had noticed that scene before and thought it was strange. I had never suspected allomancy though. Still I think it is unlikely. I would say Sigzil's stoic and reserved nature makes it easy to tell him your secrets, like what Radiant Returned said

But there could be other reasons too. Maybe the Azish have some sort of sub magic system like the purelake's magic fish. Or maybe being a worldsinger is more than just a fancy title. It would make sense that a group dedicated to telling stories would have "methods" of gathering info. And allomancy is hardly the only trick Hoid has up his sleeve.

[Khyrindor he/him]

Going out on a limb here. We know that some forms of power take place all through the cosmere, and a lot of similiarities are present. For example: Bronze seeking, life sense, and heliodor fabrials are all ways of sensing types of Investiture. Perhaps Brass and Zinc have a similar counterpart like that elsewhere in the cosmere. Though, how Sigzil attained this power would of course still be a mystery.

 

[Erklitt]

5 hours ago, Radiant Returned said:

For skaa I think a lot of them simply didn't. At some point if they reach a certain amount of wealth or rebellion I'd imagine they buy a vial of metals and try burning all of them. Go from there, I assume that's what the nobles did. There aren't a lot of Skaa mistings in Mistborn besides those that are already rebelling. 

As far as Sigzil goes, I hadn't noticed those passages and it's an interesting theory. But while there isn't anything substantive I can think of that proves the theory wrong, I think it's more likely based on Sigzil's personality that he's just a good listener and understands humans and so is easy to open up to. 

The nobles beat their children near the point of death to see if they snap, afterwards I'm sure they test them. As for skaa, wealth and rebellion would not be enough, it also takes knowledge. While skaa seem to be aware there are people with strange powers known as Allomancers, I don't think the connection to certain metals is general knowledge. So the real percentage of skaa Mistings would be lot higher then the known figures.

I also always put this scene down to Sigzil's personality, and I still think that's probably it. But that scene with Teft is somehow suggestive...

@Khyrindor Nice idea.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Erklitt

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

It would be nice if it was true, but I cant really see how Sigzil could be a misting/Mistborn. He would need to be a Worldhopper, which he is not. Or Hoid would have to have given him lerasium, which seems unplausible.

 

Possibly if Sig has relatives who worldhopped from Scadrial...

[CalaCrisp88]

2 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

Possibly if Sig has relatives who worldhopped from Scadrial...

Maybe his ancestors were Terris. Doesn't SA happen around/after MB Era 2? By then, the Terris people had interbred with the rest of the people. It's entirely possible for the Terris Worldbringers to end up with a Soother descendant. He might even be Twinborn then! That would be so exciting!

Of course, everything we're saying is speculation and it may not be true at all :/

[Argel he/him]

SA archive takes place either shortly before Era2 or there may be some overlap with SA5. Someone should ask Brandon if he's descended from native Rosharans. We already know there's a descendant of SoScads.

[Stormgate he/him]

Why don't we just ask if he Allomantically burn any metals and be done with it?

[Erklitt]

No proof, evidence, or anything else, just a spontaneous thought: Hoid might have wanted to be rid of that lerasium.

Obviously, he's somehow achieved Allomancy without it. At least soothing and maybe rioting, but knowing him, I guess he has it all. And he still carried the bead.

From the letter (if that paragraph really was about the lerasium) it might be inferred that Frost was worried it might get into the wrong hands. Hoid didn't need it anymore for himself. So how to keep it away from the wrong hands?

His quiet apprentice might have been ideal. Under such circumstances, it could even be considered plausible that he never taught Sigzil anything, and Sigzil does what he does by instinct. Maybe he even uses the tin he gets from tin cups: after all Teft remarked that Sigzil 'knew things'.

I have only a vague idea of what 'I protect it like my own skin' is supposed to mean in this scenario. Maybe 'I make sure no one can get at it' which in the case of the lerasium would mean: no one will ever suspect where it went, and so it will be safe."

Once again, lots of woolgathering.

[The Sovereign]

While Sigzil being an Allomancer isn't impossible this WoB make me think it is rather unlikely:

Quote

Interview: Apr 15th, 2013

Reddit AMA 2013 (Verbatim)

Herowannabe ()

Is Sigzil, as Hoid's apprentice, Rosharan?

Brandon Sanderson

He is from Roshar.

Herowannabe

Has Hoid taken him to other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

No, Sig hasn't visited any other worlds.

Tags

hoid, sigzil, roshar,

I would guess it is more of his calm nature and his charisma that gets people to talk, not unlike a psychiatrist getting people to talk about things they otherwise would not.

[Argel he/him]

7 hours ago, Erklitt said:

Obviously, he's somehow achieved Allomancy without it.

There's the speculation that he burned half the bead to get the allomancy (and has the other half for feruchemy) so I do Edit: not think we can assume he achieved allomancy without it.  Edit: Sigzil helped Kal out a lot. If Hoid knew/had hints he was a proto-radiant maybe Sigzil was in BridgeFour on purpose? Though that's a risky place to be.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Argel

[Sam Script he/him]

I pretty believe that "I protect it like my own skin" means he consumed Lerasium. How could this happen that Hoid achieved Allomancy without the bead? @Erklitt @Argel I need your explanations

[Radiant Returned he/him]

Yeah I agree with @Sam Script I've always thought it obvious that Hoid used the bead. He has Feruchemy and has shown signs of using Allomancy, and the "protect it like my own skin" seems most likely to be literal, he's protecting his own skin because he used it. 

[Argel he/him]

Sorry, I left a "not"  out. I agree that he used it at least part of it. The "protect it like my own skin" sounds a lot like an embedded metalmind. We know the bead made Elend more powerful than Vin (in terms of raw power -- Vin had the experience and brilliant instincts that offset that) so it seems plausible that burning half of the bead would still make him an Allomancer, just not as powerful. With that said, could a feruchemist tap the bead for allomancy?

[CalaCrisp88]

Personally, I've believed that the "elemet" fron the letter is an aether. He protects it like his own skin because it's literally embedded in his skin. Let me know if there's more evidence that disproved that though.

[Jondesu he/him]

2 hours ago, 8giraffe8 said:

Personally, I've believed that the "elemet" fron the letter is an aether. He protects it like his own skin because it's literally embedded in his skin. Let me know if there's more evidence that disproved that though.

I can't find it, but I thought there was a WoB that implicitly or explicitly confirmed the element was the Lerasium bead. I could be wrong, though, and that could just be bad head-canon.

jW