Second Annual Sanderson Tournament Discussion

[Patar he/him]

So with the renewed interest in the Great Sanderson Tournament, I went ahead and started this thread. The purpose of this is to figure out what changes, if any, should be made to the tournament rules this year. I'd really like to hear what you guys think, as well as see how much interest there is in doing this again.

• Perhaps the most important topic that needs to be addressed is that of which characters will be in the tournament this year, and how many. Last year was 32, and I feel like that's a pretty solid number, but if people want to bump it up to 64, I'd be OK with that. I will say that 64 characters will take a long time to finish. 
• The top four finishers last year were Vin, Dalinar, Kelsier, and Vasher. These are four very popular characters, and I think it's safe to assume that they could make it pretty far again. In order to avoid a similar end, we could ban them, although if we had more characters they would probably be necessary. I personally think we should keep them in, but let me know what y'all think!
• One more thing that relates to characters is that of those who could be considered OP. Out of the characters last year, only a few were truly OP, and out of those, only Obliteration and Hoid advanced at all. We should figure out is OP characters should be allowed, and what exactly constitutes them being OP.

There are a few new ideas and rules that I want to be discussed. 

• Last year you could vote on a character based on which of the two you liked most, or who you think would win in a fight. I'm still perfectly fine with that format, but one of the main purposes of this was to start discussions, and that was lacking last year. Instead of saying why someone was a better character or why someone would win in a fight, people would put the name of the character as their vote, and that was it. I'd like that to change. When you vote, I'd like you to provide an explanation, even a short one, of why you're voting for that character. If you just put the name of the character, your vote will not count. It was a shame to see Vin and Dalinar go against each other and have so little discussion of who would win in an actual fight. What do you guys think of this?
• Darkness Ascendant had the idea of incorporating a story into this tournament, something similar to the Hunger Games or Contest of Champions, and I really like this idea. I think it could make the tournament a lot more fun, something more than just a debate on who would win in a fight or who's a better character. Let me know what y'all think about this!
• Last year after the tournament concluded, the possibility of having teams was discussed. I think this could be a good way of fitting in more characters while still having 32 spots. It could be teams of two. That being said, if characters such as Harmony and Honor, or even Vin and Dalinar were on a team together, it'd be pretty hard for them to be beat. The teams could be randomized, but the possibility of OP teams would still be there. 
• Should the nomination process work the same as it did last year? For those of you who didn't do this last year, you nominated a character to be in the tournament by voting for them. You had five votes every day, and you could spread those votes however you wish (You could nominate one character five times, five characters one time, etc). Those with the most nominations were entered into the tournament. If we decide to go with 64 characters, perhaps the number of votes you have each day could be increased.  

So this is everything I could think of off the top of my head, but I'm sure I've missed something. If you have anything to add, please feel free to do so! And if you guys decide the system of nominating characters is fine as is, I suppose we could just do that here. I'll keep track of what characters of how many nominations. Let me know what you think! 

Current nominations:

 

Marsh x40

Szeth x27

Kelsier x26

Sazed x19

Jasnah x17

Kaladin x14

Shallan x14

Spook x14

Vin x13

TenSoon x13

Kenton x11

Adolin x11

Taravangian x11

Nohadon x11

Syl x11

Vasher x11

Nightblood x10

Stick (I really don't know if we should include it) x10

Dalinar x10

Khriss x10

Cody x9

Shai x9

Elend x8

Wax x7

Gaz x7

Breeze x7

Renarnin x7

Wayne x7

Lopen x6

Axies x6

Meagan x6

Susebron x6

Lift x6

The Lord Ruler x5

Amaram x5

Dilaf x5

MeLaan x5

VenDell x5

Straff x5

Eshonai x1

Hoid x4

Mraize x4

Silence x4

Lightsong x3

Raoden x3

Rysn x3

Scribbler Forgotten x3

Hrathen x3

Denth x3

Bleeder x2

Vivenna x2

Miles x2

Baon x2

Suit x2

Telsin x2

Rlain x1

Clod x1

1x Obliteration

Nazh x1

Prof x1 

Human x1 

 Siris x1

Bastille x1

Wyndle x1 

Zane x1

Sixth of the Dusk x1

Allrianne x1

Slowswift x1

Ati x1

Leras x1

Bilge x1

Goradel x1

Pattern x1

Steris x1

Grandpa Smedry x1

Ashraven x1

Gaotona x1

Galladon x1

Yalb x1

Sarene x1

Gavilar x1

Tonk Fah x1

Demoux x1

Bloodsealer x1

 

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Patar

[Elenion he/him]

I'm in. I'd prefer 32 for the sake of time, but would be cool with 64 as well. As for nominations:

Kaladin x1

Adolin x1

Szeth x1

Kelsier x1

Vin x1

[Alvron he/him]

I loved this last year and am happy to see it's return.  I think 32 would still work well but if we do hit 64 then go the team route for time maybe.  Anyway, nominations:

Bleeder x1
Rlain x1
Gaz x1
Scribbler Forgotten x1
Hrathen x1

[PantsForSquares he/him]

It's the tournament! I'm kinda glad I'm not lurking 'round these parts anymore!

Anyways

Lift x1

The Lopen x1

Vasher x1

Renarin x1

Sazed x1

[cloudjumper he/him]

Hi! I personally would not like teams, because as you pointed out, if we have some OP teams then it will be a stomp. I also personally think that 32 slots would work because 64 would take too long.

9 hours ago, Patar said:

Darkness Ascendant had the idea of incorporating a story into this tournament, something similar to the Hunger Games or Contest of Champions, and I really like this idea. I think it could make the tournament a lot more fun, something more than just a debate on who would win in a fight or who's a better character. Let me know what y'all think about this!

This is a great idea. Unfortunately, I have no ideas on what it could be. For nominations:

Breeze x2

Spook x1

Sazed x1

Lightsong x1

 

[StormyQueen she/her]

So it can be based on who we like? This could get hard. I would say it would be a good idea to have a paragraph on why you chose the character, especially for discussion based purposes. 

So, cue the nominations....

Jasnah x3

Elend x1

Breeze x1

 

 

[Magestar he/him]

Marsh X5.  Done.  

I can vote again every day?  I think 32 is fine, unless you intend this game to stretch on for weeks.

I think some RP/story would be fine.

[Eccentric Hero he/him]

I don't mind the number of characters. Pair-up would be great if we could make the pairs related. eg. Vin/Elend, Kal/Syl, Khriss/Nazh. I think there should not be any shards. (Sazed should be pre-ascension.)

Vasher x1

Nightblood x1

Wax x1

Kaladin x1

Kelsier x1

[Patar he/him]

47 minutes ago, Magestar said:

Marsh X5.  Done.  

I can vote again every day?  I think 32 is fine, unless you intend this game to stretch on for weeks.

I think some RP/story would be fine.

That's right. Everybody can vote once a day until a few days before the tournament starts, and you'll be given notice when that is. I'm thinking a week or two.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

I personally like the idea of not having the top finishers in again if we only do 32 slots. 

Kenton x5

[asterion137 he/him]

Marsh x3

Clod x1

Kaladin x1

[Bond Nahel Bond he/him]

Having a story incorporated would be so cool! Best not to include the top 4 as they're most likely fan favorites still.

Taravangian x1 

Marsh x1 

Lightsong x1 

Raoden x1 

Spook x1 

[Elenion he/him]

Szeth x3

Adolin x2

[Zizoz he/him]

Nominations:

Shallan x2

Vin x1

Kaladin x1

Stick x1

I think last year's top four should stay in. They aren't guaranteed to take the top spots, since there will be different people voting and a different bracket.

I personally like being able to vote without providing an explanation; I would have trouble explaining why I like a character and also probably become worried that I was saying something wrong somehow. Of course, if the purpose is to initiate discussion, then excluding people who would not have said anything beyond their vote anyway is worth it to get other people discussing the characters. But if you want as many people as possible to vote, it would be better to allow votes with no explanation.

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

2x Wax

1x Obliteration

1x Axies the Collector

1x Taravangian

[PantsForSquares he/him]

Stick x2

The Lopen x3

[StormyQueen she/her]

Jasnah x3

Elend x2

[Eccentric Hero he/him]

I can't believe that I'm the first to nominate Hoid.

Vasher x2

Nightblood x1

Hoid x2

[Patar he/him]

10 hours ago, Zizoz said:

Nominations:

Shallan x2

Vin x1

Kaladin x1

Stick x1

I think last year's top four should stay in. They aren't guaranteed to take the top spots, since there will be different people voting and a different bracket.

I personally like being able to vote without providing an explanation; I would have trouble explaining why I like a character and also probably become worried that I was saying something wrong somehow. Of course, if the purpose is to initiate discussion, then excluding people who would not have said anything beyond their vote anyway is worth it to get other people discussing the characters. But if you want as many people as possible to vote, it would be better to allow votes with no explanation.

Don't worry, if you're giving your opinion on why you like a character, I don't think you can be wrong! And the explanations don't have to be long. "I like Adolin Because *reason*".  But if this an unpopular rule, I'll take it out! 

4 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

2x Wax

1x Obliteration

1x Axies the Collector

1x Taravangian

 

14 minutes ago, Eccentric Hero said:

I can't believe that I'm the first to nominate Hoid.

Vasher x2

Nightblood x1

Hoid x2

Would Hoid and High Epics like Obliteration be OP? I've included them for now, but I'm personally fine with them being in.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Patar

[Eccentric Hero he/him]

6 hours ago, Patar said:

Don't worry, if you're giving your opinion on why you like a character, I don't think you can be wrong! And the explanations don't have to be long. "I like Adolin Because *reason*".  But if this an unpopular rule, I'll take it out! 

 

Would Hoid and High Epics like Obliteration be OP? I've included them for now, but I'm personally fine with them being in.

I would take them out for being OP when we have Nightblood and Stick. :/

 

I think your opinion idea is good. Short reasons would be fine. eg. Kaladin because he is honorable and saves lives. Adolin because of his hair (I am imagining maxal saying this ).

Maybe even opinion on your vote vs the other option: eg. Stick because he is more mysterious than Hoid.

[Magestar he/him]

So, when I nominate, should I provide a reason as well?

It's been 24 hours, so;

Marsh x4

Szeth x1

Marsh, because I think he has the potential to win this.  We're using his latest version, right?  Or at least inquisitor!Marsh?  Also, he's a fantastic character.  I would nominate other characters, but I get the feeling that they don't have the power level to win this.  It's going to be sort of like a brawl?   Szeth, because he's just that awesome.  He needs to be in here, plus, he's got the power level to win this, potentially.  This is Honorblade!Szeth, because we don't know enough about the new Szeth, and we already have Nightblood as a nominee.

I would suggest Hrathen, but he's just a cool plot character, and literally has no brawl-winning abilities.

[Patar he/him]

2 minutes ago, Magestar said:

So, when I nominate, should I provide a reason as well?

It's been 24 hours, so;

Marsh x4

Szeth x1

Marsh, because I think he has the potential to win this.  We're using his latest version, right?  Or at least inquisitor!Marsh?  Also, he's a fantastic character.  I would nominate other characters, but I get the feeling that they don't have the power level to win this.  It's going to be sort of like a brawl?   Szeth, because he's just that awesome.  He needs to be in here, plus, he's got the power level to win this, potentially.  This is Honorblade!Szeth, because we don't know enough about the new Szeth, and we already have Nightblood as a nominee.

I would suggest Hrathen, but he's just a cool plot character, and literally has no brawl-winning abilities.

Nah, you don't need to give reasons for nominations. Just when the tournament rounds actually start. We can use the latest version of Marsh. And you can choose to see it as a fight if you want. Many vote on who would win in a fight, and some just vote for whoever we like more. Personally I like voting on who I think would win in a fight, but either choice is fine! 

So where do we draw the line for OP characters? Would Marsh or The Lord Ruler be OP? Shards are definitely out, but what about High Epics? I'm also hesitant to include Hoid, as we simply don't know enough about what his powers are to judge him fairly. 

[Magestar he/him]

I think it depends on the Epic, and maybe we should not use the latest version of Marsh.  Maybe just Inquisitor Marsh.  As for Hoid... Maybe just as a Cameo Character, but he would win just based on fan flailing.

[Patar he/him]

Sounds good. And I actually really like the idea of Hoid as a cameo appearance if we weave a story into this. Of course I don't want to do this if everybody else wants him in the tournament, but the idea certainly has merit!  

[asterion137 he/him]

If it does end up being a brawl, I think it could be interesting to have all the characters with magic/powers be on their own while the normal humans are in duos or trios.