Random Storm Light questions

[Oversleep]

A lot of people speculating on this whole Shardbow thing forget something simple:

There is a giant, fabrial-enhanced bow only a Shardbearer can draw. Sadeas used one back in WoK when Elhokar was attacked by a chasmfiend. So a Radiant could just carry such a bow and turn his spren into Shardarrow. With the ability to instantly summon/desummon Shardweapon it turns basically into a machine gun.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Oversleep

[Yata he/him]

4 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

A lot of people speculating on this whole Shardbow thing forget something simple:

There is a giant, fabrial-enhanced bow only a Shardbearer can draw. Sadeas used one back in WoK when Elhokar was attacked by a chasmfiend. So a Radiant could just carry such a bow and turn his spren into Shardarrow. That way it turns basically into a machine gun.

they don't even use those special bow...every bow is good to use it with a Shardarrow

[Oversleep]

Just now, Yata said:

they don't even use those special bow...every bow is good to use it with a Shardarrow

Yeah, but I think that a Full Knight Radiant in Shardplate and pumped full of Stormlight could just break a normal bow by trying to draw it.

So Fabrialbow is the answer (also it increases speed of flight and range immensely).

[Krandacth]

12 hours ago, Oversleep said:

So a Radiant could just carry such a bow and turn his spren into Shardarrow. That way it turns basically into a machine gun.

Did anyone else get a chill imagining Archer from Fate/UBW let lose on Roshar as a Radiant? Make him a Dustbringer and you get the potential for explosive arrows to boot.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Krandacth

[PantsForSquares he/him]

I'm a bit disappointed with the seeming lack of potential Dustbringer main characters, but I wouldn't be surprised if we just haven't met them yet. They're an interesting Order, considering that their main values are Bravery and Obedience. I certainly hope that we'll see one, since Division/Abrasion is certainly an interesting Surge combination.

I can imagine them being an Order where they pretty much don't need a Shardblade to seriously mess up a Voidbringer or thunderclast (at least, going by TWoK's prelude). Plus, if any one Order would use a Shardbow, I'd see the Dustbringers as being able to do it. Fire arrows and a Shardbow wouldn't be impossible.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

2 hours ago, PantsForSquares said:

I'm a bit disappointed with the seeming lack of potential Dustbringer main characters, but I wouldn't be surprised if we just haven't met them yet. They're an interesting Order, considering that their main values are Bravery and Obedience. I certainly hope that we'll see one, since Division/Abrasion is certainly an interesting Surge combination.

I can imagine them being an Order where they pretty much don't need a Shardblade to seriously mess up a Voidbringer or thunderclast (at least, going by TWoK's prelude). Plus, if any one Order would use a Shardbow, I'd see the Dustbringers as being able to do it. Fire arrows and a Shardbow wouldn't be impossible.

I've seen Redin, the bastard son of the former king of Jah Keved suggested as a potential Dustbringer. He's obedient when killing his father, despite what it would mean for his future to be known as a patricide. 

[maxal she/her]

3 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I've seen Redin, the bastard son of the former king of Jah Keved suggested as a potential Dustbringer. He's obedient when killing his father, despite what it would mean for his future to be known as a patricide. 

I have seen him as well, but the fact he has no flashback sequences means he isn't a major character. That's the bothersome with those... We already know who are the important players and none are fitted to be Dustbringers. Hence, it appears as if this order will have to do with a tertiary character instead of a primary one.

[PantsForSquares he/him]

1 minute ago, maxal said:

I have seen him as well, but the fact he has no flashback sequences means he isn't a major character. That's the bothersome with those... We already know who are the important players and none are fitted to be Dustbringers. Hence, it appears as if this order will have to do with a tertiary character instead of a primary one.

We've only had a total of four flashback characters. There's Szeth's at the start of TWoK, and Kaladin's during the rest of the book, Jasnah's at the start of WoR and Shallan's during WoR. We've most likely got Dalinar flashbacks in Book 3, and Szeth flashbacks down the line. Considering that there are still three books in the first half with interludes, there's plenty of time to bring in another character like how Lift was brought in.

We also lack a Willshaper character, and a Stoneward - if we're unwilling to count Talenel.

[Yata he/him]

3 hours ago, PantsForSquares said:

We also lack a Willshaper character, and a Stoneward - if we're unwilling to count Talenel.

Many people think Eshonai would become the Willshaper character

Edited September 11, 2016 by Yata

[PantsForSquares he/him]

4 hours ago, Yata said:

Many people think Eshonai would become the Willshaper character

That makes sense, if Parshendi are allowed to make a Nahel bond.

Has anyone considered Rysn for the Dustbringer character? She's got two interludes, and has some measure of qualification as far as being brave (or foolish) and she obeys Vstim because of her apprenticeship. If she's important enough to appear in more than one book, then there's bound to be something interesting there.

[maxal she/her]

9 hours ago, PantsForSquares said:

We've only had a total of four flashback characters. There's Szeth's at the start of TWoK, and Kaladin's during the rest of the book, Jasnah's at the start of WoR and Shallan's during WoR. We've most likely got Dalinar flashbacks in Book 3, and Szeth flashbacks down the line. Considering that there are still three books in the first half with interludes, there's plenty of time to bring in another character like how Lift was brought in.

We also lack a Willshaper character, and a Stoneward - if we're unwilling to count Talenel.

We already know who the future flashback characters are going to be: Lift, Renarin, Ash, Taln and Jasnah. Currently, this is the order Brandon is investigating, but it is subject to change. This line up has been firm for the pass two years, I doubt he'll swap any character with a new one.

He may bring in a new character, this is true, but this character will not be a major character.

1 hour ago, PantsForSquares said:

Has anyone considered Rysn for the Dustbringer character? She's got two interludes, and has some measure of qualification as far as being brave (or foolish) and she obeys Vstim because of her apprenticeship. If she's important enough to appear in more than one book, then there's bound to be something interesting there.

A lot of people have thought of Rysn, but her story may have to do more with the larkin than Radianhood. I also suspect she may be the mystery Part 2 novella character. So far, she is the stronger contender. 

Based on latest Brandon's words, I think Szeth most probably is tertiary character 2, but his novella has currently been moved to Part 4. 

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

@maxal, what makes you think he is tertiary character 2? I thought he was probably 4, who only has parts in part 4. 

[maxal she/her]

1 hour ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

@maxal, what makes you think he is tertiary character 2? I thought he was probably 4, who only has parts in part 4. 

Oh Reddit... He said he moved Part 3 novella to Part 4. When asked about the Part 3 novella, he said it was the story arc of tertiary character 2. At the same time, he also said he needed to write Szeth flashbacks, right now, to ensure continuity. Thus, it is safe to assume Szeth either is tertiary character 2 or 4. I am currently leaning on 2.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

5 hours ago, PantsForSquares said:

That makes sense, if Parshendi are allowed to make a Nahel bond.

I don't believe Brandon has given a definitive yes or no to this. However, I do remember something along the lines of  "everyone in-world will say that they can't" Personally, that sounds like a yes without saying it, or he means that it's possible, but nobody knows how (like magic hacks)

[Yata he/him]

40 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I don't believe Brandon has given a definitive yes or no to this. However, I do remember something along the lines of  "everyone in-world will say that they can't" Personally, that sounds like a yes without saying it, or he means that it's possible, but nobody knows how (like magic hacks)

we have also:

Quote

OUTIS

Is Eshonai going to be a Radiant?

BRANDON SANDERSON

In the past, parshmen/Parshendi were not allowed to become Knights Radiant. However, what I said might imply that that could change. But no promises

 

[Eki]

We don't know how people became Radiants in the past, but right now, it's up to the spren, not humans. So what's allowed or not might not matter anymore.

[Assassin in Burgundy he/him]

10 hours ago, maxal said:

We already know who the future flashback characters are going to be: Lift, Renarin, Ash, Taln and Jasnah.

Who's Ash?

[Djarskublar he/him]

4 minutes ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

Who's Ash?

Shalash. Nickname.

[Darkness he/him]

going back to shardarrows... I get the feeling that it's very unlikely a spren can hurt anyone when they're physically separated from their radiant. There is no textual basis for my argument (other than maybe syl landing on stuff and pattern moving over stuff without cutting it). Counter arguments are that shardbearers can throw shardblades and presumably cut things... It may simply be a function of intent, but I doubt it. I just think that, since syl is fully capable of flying herself around, it would be far too powerful if she could just be a self-guided shardmissle. Forget the bow, she can already fly... And be instantaneously resummoned. I just cant see Brandon letting that magic hack work out. The kaladin fight with szeth would have ended in about a second if syl could cut when separated from kaladin.

[galendo]

@Darkness I don't think whether the spren hurt things or not has anything to do with how distant they are (or not) from their Radiant.  After all, the dead Shardblades are certainly not anywhere near their original Radiants any longer.  Rather, I think it's a matter of the natural form of movement for the shape that they're in.  Like, when Syl is a human, she only ever walks like a person does.  Yes, she walks on air, but she always gets around by walking.  She never moves differently than the natural form of locomotion for the shape that she's in.

So when she's a Blade, she never moves independently, because swords don't have any form of locomotion themselves.  She could still be thrown, and would be just as deadly, but that's the natural effect of a thrown blade.  Also, when she's a person, or a leaf, or a skyeel, or whatever, she doesn't cut things because it isn't part of the nature of people, or leaves, or skyeels to cut things when they land on them.

So I imagine Syl or any Radiant spren would be able to pierce things in the form of an arrow, but I wouldn't think it would be that much of overpowered hack.  First, she'd have to turn into an arrow, then move forward along a more-or-less straight line.  Then, if she missed, she'd have to turn into a shape that can turn around, do an about-face, turn herself back into an arrow, and try again.  While she's doing this, Kaladin is completely unarmed, which against someone like Szeth means he's basically dead.

Also, she can't be "instantaneously resummoned", I wouldn't think.  We know it doesn't take her ten heartbeats to form a Blade when she's with Kaladin, but if he needs to summon her from elsewhere, I imagine it'd take the same ten heartbeats that everyone else requires.  She could probably fly back herself in less time, if she hadn't gone too far, but it's not exactly an overpowered ability.  At best, you'd have the equivalent of a really slow bow that never ran out of arrows.  (Okay, whose arrows go through walls and stuff, I guess.  Then again, so can Shardblades, so that's not all that much of an improvement.)

[Darkness he/him]

the summoning seems to be instant for pattern.

 

when shallan summons him to kill tyn, pattern is fetching gaz and the others, then coalesces in shallan's hand, appearing "out of mist". Pattern is nowhere near, and she doesn't seem to need 10 heartbeats. Also, the way in which he appears makes me think that the way he gets summoned has to do with his spiritual connection to shallan, and not moving through the physical realm.

I like your thought that the spren are basically limited to doing what their given form would do (i.e. Straight line arrows, wyndle growing rather than moving, etc.), but I'm now thinking that syl could go up to the enemy in windspren form, transform into an explosive, blow the foe to bits like a real bomb would, and then reform herself instantly in kaladin's hand. Also, even if she were to simply be an arrow, she seems to fluidly transition from one state to another during the szeth flight, becoming whatever is needed in the heat of the moment, so I don't think turning and shape shifting on the fly is too difficult for her.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Darkness
I also like your point that the dead shardblades are far from their radiants, except that those bonds are severed, and re-established with shardbearers with the help of gemstones. the shardbearers are the ones bonded to the dead spren now.

[Rich2244]

Just to clarify, for myself as well as anyone else, of the 10 proposed characters the only confirmed orders are: 

Kaladin-Windrunners

Shallan-Lightweavers

Dalinar-Bondsmiths

Lift-Edgedancers

Renarin-Truthwatchers

Jasnah-Elsecaller (Don't think this is actually stated but can be confirmed due to sharing one of Shallans surges?)

So we have 

Eshonai

Szeth

Shalash

Taln

left to match to 

Willshapers

Skybreakers

Dustbringers

Stonewards

With Szeth basically a Skybreaker but not confirmed?

Taln was a Stoneward, I don't see any reason to assume that will change?

Which leaves Eshonai and Ash. 

With 8 out of 10 orders taken, I really don't see 1 being left out which means that Ash will have to change orders, doesn't make sense to me to have 2 Lightweavers and no Dustbringer or Willshaper.

Eshonai feels more like a Willshaper to me but to be honest we know very little about Willshapers and Dustbringers so could go either way.

My thoughts on Ash is just that destroying art of herself is literally against everything the Lightweavers stand for (Creativity and Honesty). From that I can see arguments for both Willshapers (opposite side of the diagram of the orders and surges) and Dustbringers (seem to be alighned with destruction and secrecy). 

Please correct me if anything is wrong there.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Rich2244

[Yata he/him]

56 minutes ago, Rich2244 said:

With Szeth basically a Skybreaker but not confirmed?

Well he is not bonded with a Skybreaker's Spren therefore he may be an "unofficial" member of the order to be generous.

56 minutes ago, Rich2244 said:

Taln was a Stoneward, I don't see any reason to assume that will change?

Taln is not a Stoneward neither a Radiant at all. He as Herald was gifted an Honorblade who perfome two surges (like Szeth with Windrunner's one)...the Spren who later become Stoneward's Spren imitated him and his Honorblade to give to the Humans the same powers....He was the Stoneward's patron not one of them. Of course is still a thematic character linked to the Stoneward.

56 minutes ago, Rich2244 said:

My thoughts on Ash is just that destroying art of herself is literally against everything the Lightweavers stand for (Creativity and Honesty). From that I can see arguments for both Willshapers (opposite side of the diagram of the orders and surges) and Dustbringers (seem to be alighned with destruction and secrecy). 

All the remaining Heralds (of course expect Taln) seem to have become the opposite of their former self (or at least a twisted form).

- Shalash is a art destroyer

- Nale is a murderous vigilantes who care only to find a legal excuse to kill his prey.

- Kalak become a great coward

Neither nothing prevent as far as I know an Herald to become a Radiant much more without their Honorblades.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Yata

[Rich2244]

36 minutes ago, Yata said:

Well he is not bonded with a Skybreaker's Spren therefore he may be an "unofficial" member of the order to be generous.

Taln is not a Stoneward neither a Radiant at all. He as Herald was gifted an Honorblade who perfome two surges (like Szeth with Windrunner's one)...the Spren who later become Stoneward's Spren imitated him and his Honorblade to give to the Humans the same powers....He was the Stoneward's patron not one of them. Of course is still a thematic character linked to the Stoneward.

All the remaining Heralds (of course expect Taln) seem to have become the opposite of their former self (or at least a twisted form).

- Shalash is a art destroyer

- Nale is a murderous vigilantes who care only to find a legal excuse to kill his prey.

- Kalak become a great coward

Neither nothing prevent as far as I know an Herald to become a Radiant much more without their Honorblades.

Although Szeth isn't bonded with a Skybreaker spren it fits his character perfectly and he seems to be moving towards becoming a Skybreaker, I know he isn't one yet I just meant we can group them together with reasonable certainty.

Thanks for clarifying I meant to say Taln was affiliated with the Stonewards and we can also fairly safely group them together.

I disagree with the heralds becoming opposites though, 

Kalak may be a coward, but the Willshapers don't exemplify bravery, the cowardice is an independent trait he has picked up. 

Shalash is completely opposite

Nale however seems to me to be more obsessive to the literal meaning with no room for error, rather than interpreting a situation. I could quite easily see some of the original Skybreakers having the same attitude. Especially as what we have heard about high spren being very emotionless and calculating. Observing the word of the law rather than the intent is maybe a better way to put it?

[The One Who Connects he/him]

3 minutes ago, Rich2244 said:

Kalak may be a coward, but the Willshapers don't exemplify bravery, the cowardice is an independent trait he has picked up. 

Quote

Also known as Kelek in Vorinism. He is associated with the number Kak, the essence Foil, and the attributes Resolute and Builder. He is patron of the Order of Willshapers. Source

Resolute - admirably purposeful, determined, and unwavering. (I'm not sourcing define ".." in google)
Cowardice seems the opposite of unwavering, ie Resolute, but that's an argument of semantics