Quiver he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 So, this occurred to me, and. I was wondering if we have word of Brandon on the subject. As I understand it, the magic system a person uses is influenced by the world their from, hence why Scadrians use metal-based magics, while Sel is based on forms. Furthermore, the breeding of two of the metal arts changed how the systems work, so that instead of full born Furechimists (and possibly mistborn) don't exist anymore. That was a change induced by two magic systems that were connected to one another. So what would happen if magic users from different worlds crossed the beams? I'll grant it may be that nothing would happen, that being based on a human template isn't enough and, say, a Scadrian and a Rosharan couple can't have children. Has Brandon stated that? Or has he said what can happen if a child is born? Will any magic they have be determined by their parents, or by the planet they were born on? I realise, at the moment, when world hopping is a rare phenomenon, this may not be pertinent. But as the cosmeceuticals progresses towards science fiction, it sounds like an issue that might need to be addressed. After all, it only two some two hundred years after contact for half-human, half-vulcans to start appearing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I believe that full feruchemists do exist, they're just rare and they keep to themselves. It's the crossing (of the streams) of the genes that mixes everything up. Beyond that, I believe people have asked Brandon, and he said, in his typical info withholding manner, that they would have Investiture from both Shards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Here's the WoB: Source: Shardlet: If a Scadrian allomancer had a baby with a Nalthian (and the baby was born on Nalthis), could the baby have an original Breath and also be a Natural allomancer? Brandon: It could happen, the baby would have a bit of Preservation and a bit of Endowment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I was expecting two to three pages of back and forth banter on whether it as possible, what it would mean, and how the systems would interact. I apparently underestimated the ingenuity of the 17th Shard. Of course, the quote is vague enough to promote rampant speculation, so please, O insist. In the meantime, here's an UPVOTES to each of you for your trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 What we know about mixing genetics (and sGenetics) is super complicated, and what we know about mixing magic systems (ipsum est, what would happen if Vivenna gave all of her Breath to Vin?) is almost non-existant. I personally suspect that there's an upper limit to how much Investiture any one person can have; the more types of magic you can use, the weaker you are at each, the less fine control you have. But that's just a guess; we'll have to wait for worldhopping to become common sometime around valentine's day to learn more. I just take it on faith that this is RAFO bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 So what would happen if magic users from different worlds crossed the beams? Either all life as you know it will stop instantaneously and every molecule in your body will explode at the speed of light or it will allow you to close the gate to Gozer's temple. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 What I am interested in is if it would (or at least could) produce an offspring with connections to both magic systems, or if they would mix and create a hybrid system, much in the same way that the balance between Ruin and Preservation made Feruchemy. What would the combination of Harmony and Endowment be? A system where you could forcefully take other's breaths as well as Awaken objects without touching them? What would Devotion and Cultivation make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The complexity of all those hybrid systems boggles my mind somewhat. Also, if it would result in anything, I doubt it would just create "compounding", or anything like "stealing Breaths". The one example we've got is feruchemy, and apart from the tin and pewter connection there's no real parallel, and even there they function very differently. Feruchemy isn't simply allomancy with a hemalurgic flavor, it's entirely unique. I would suspect that, much like the twinborn, mixing sDNA of different systems would simply result in one person getting a watered-down version of two different systems, not an entirely new power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) A lot of what could happen comes down to whether the magic is passed genetically or not. With Scadrial, it is. With Nalthis, it seems less likely. Although what makes it so that one is an awakener while another is not? With Sel, it does not seem to have a genetic component. It has been theorized that regional identity plays the important role, but I think it is more complicated than that. With Roshar, we have WoB that it is action-based (the choices one makes) rather than genetic. That is why in the question I asked Brandon I used a Scadrien and a Nalthan and specified that the child was born on Nalthis. I used one power that is genetic and one that is a virtual guarantee by virtue of birth. Also, Darnam, fyi, i.e. is an abbreviation for 'id est' rather than 'ipsum est'. Edited January 23, 2014 by Shardlet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Anyone else find it interesting that the Koloss-blooded character Tarson (Miles, 2nd in Command) had allomantic abilities (Pewter) in Alloy of Steel? I wonder if all or only some of the non-human races can interbreed with the humans to produce children capable of accessing the magic systems. For reference, the non-humans we've seen are Parshendi, Aimians, Koloss, and Kandra. Kandra and Koloss started out as humans originally. I think the constructed races actually have a greater degree of Investiture in them than most humans, but not in such a manner as to allow the same use of magic as humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Well, Koloss have an allomantic genetic heritage. So, it is not too surprising to me that some Koloss would have an allomantic ability. While the Kandra have a feruchemic genetic heritage, they were changed at a much more fundamental level. They exist as something not human without any spikes (mistwraiths). In contrast, Koloss and Inquisitors are humans which have been individually altered by the addition of spikes. I think it is unlikely that Kandra could successfully interbreed with humans. I also think it is unlikely that Koloss and Inquisitors could not. In fact, we know that Koloss can since Tarson is described as being Koloss-blooded rather than Koloss. That being the case, I don't see why any crossbred people on Scadrial could not have allomantic or feruchemic abilities since these abilities are passed genetically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 What I am interested in is if it would (or at least could) produce an offspring with connections to both magic systems, or if they would mix and create a hybrid system, much in the same way that the balance between Ruin and Preservation made Feruchemy. What would the combination of Harmony and Endowment be? A system where you could forcefully take other's breaths as well as Awaken objects without touching them? What would Devotion and Cultivation make?When mr sanderson had the q7a on these forum he saidthe hybrids could do 'strange things' so i think that means that there is a chance of a new power from the combo and since we know lightweave comes from both yolen and stormliht maybe it could also be a old power but used in strange way like lashings with breaths that last forever and onnly work on metals or something 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Although what makes it so that one is an awakener while another is not? Also, Darnam, fyi, i.e. is an abbreviation for 'id est' rather than 'ipsum est'. An Awakener is anyone who has somehow acquired enough Breaths to Awaken, and also has the knowledge of the art required to use it properly. Though apparently simply having enough Breath is the same thing. Er... my Latin teacher told me it was ipsum, so on balance I'm going with her. Also, according to the translation program I just used to double check, "ipsum est" means "it is," which fits with how "i.e." gets used, while "id est" translates as "the is" which doesn't make sense. I could be wrong, but I hope you understand why I take the word of a Latin teacher over someone I talk with sometimes about fantasy novels. No offense is intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned he/him Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) "Id est" means "that is" and is the correct origin of i.e.. My high school and college Latin teachers stated as much and my quick perusal of various websites seems to agree. It appears your teacher was incorrect. Edited January 24, 2014 by Awesomeness summoned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 An Awakener is anyone who has somehow acquired enough Breaths to Awaken, and also has the knowledge of the art required to use it properly. Though apparently simply having enough Breath is the same thing. Thase are my thoughts on the way it goes, but I have never seen it confirmed and I'd previously seen other people suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thase are my thoughts on the way it goes, but I have never seen it confirmed and I'd previously seen other people suggest otherwise. Oh? It seems pretty clear in the books. That's certainly exactly and precisely what you need to Awaken, and presumably it's no big step to define "Awakener" as "One who can Awaken." What other kinds of suggestions have you heard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) I have only read it once and it was about three years ago. So I am foggy on Warbreaker in general. Others have suggested that the ability to awaken is separate from having sufficient breath and apparently that some additional investiture is required. But, I haven't come across either idea for many months. I seem to recall it being in conjunction with whether or not Hoid (or any non-Nalthian) could awaken. My assumption was that if they had the requisite amount of breath. they could. Edited January 24, 2014 by Shardlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Sufficient Breath grants an instinctive understanding of Awakening, which is certainly suggestive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Shard he/him Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) id est is i.e. however, ipsum and id are both pronouns which can be translated as it or that (or occasionally what, or...) Latin Nerd stuff aside, sufficient breath can teach you Awakening, it just might not be as instinctive. You would still need to see others do it to be effective. Vivenna took forever to learn without Vasher teaching her. Edited January 29, 2014 by 18th Shard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 sufficient breath can teach you Awakening, it just might not be as instinctive. You would still need to see others do it to be effective. Vivenna took forever to learn without Vasher teaching her. Yes Susebron did it with no formal training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja he/him Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Interview: Dec 17th, 2011 Alloy of Law Signing Report - Zas (Paraphrased) ZAS: After several more signings, I asked my other question. "Do people in the Comsere, besides Nalthis, have Breaths?" Brandon Sanderson: "No." He then signed a person's books, then said "To elaborate a little more, that's not to say they don't have a life force, because they do. But if someone not from Nalthis were to suddenly gain the ability to become an Awakener, they could not use what they have to Awaken something. That's not to say that they can't receive breaths though." Another somewhat applicable quote to this current discussion. It's not entirely clear, I'm not even entirely sure if he's saying that an ordinary non-Nalthis human that's been given plenty of Breaths can use those Breaths to Awaken or not. I think he's just saying they wouldn't be able to give away their own bit of soul that's a Breath equivalent, so they could never be a drab, but that they could still use Breaths given to them to Awaken. That may require additional Investiture outside of the Breaths. On the topic of Hoid, I wouldn't include his own possible magic abilities, I think he can break most of the rules that exist for normal humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Another somewhat applicable quote to this current discussion. It's not entirely clear, I'm not even entirely sure if he's saying that an ordinary non-Nalthis human that's been given plenty of Breaths can use those Breaths to Awaken or not. I think he's just saying they wouldn't be able to give away their own bit of soul that's a Breath equivalent, so they could never be a drab, but that they could still use Breaths given to them to Awaken. That may require additional Investiture outside of the Breaths. On the topic of Hoid, I wouldn't include his own possible magic abilities, I think he can break most of the rules that exist for normal humans. Fear not! For we have just recently gotten WoB! Source: “If a native of Sel or another Shardworld travelled to Nalthis, would they be a drab?” Brandon almost answered quickly, but then got a thoughtful look and paused to consider with a “hmm.” After a moment, he replied “No, they would not be a drab. But, no one would be able to take their breath.” “If such a person died on Nalthis, could they Return?” “No, they cannot Return.” “If such a person received breath, could they use BioChroma?” “Yes.” I was probably grinning like a looby at this point, but I didn’t care. Brandon complimented me on my questions, saying that I had asked some good ones and that nobody had gotten so much information out of him in a while. I don’t know whether he meant it, or was just trying to give me some confidence and make me feel good about myself as an amateur realmatic theorist (very, very amateur), but either way it made me feel like a million bucks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Another somewhat applicable quote to this current discussion. It's not entirely clear, I'm not even entirely sure if he's saying that an ordinary non-Nalthis human that's been given plenty of Breaths can use those Breaths to Awaken or not. I think he's just saying they wouldn't be able to give away their own bit of soul that's a Breath equivalent, so they could never be a drab, but that they could still use Breaths given to them to Awaken. That may require additional Investiture outside of the Breaths. On the topic of Hoid, I wouldn't include his own possible magic abilities, I think he can break most of the rules that exist for normal humans. I think the quote you sited is saying that if someone somehow gained the ability to awaken without receiving breath(s), then they would not be able to use the life force or investiture that they have to be able to awaken. Essentially, awakening requires "breath" (at least in standard circumstances, there may be some elaborate work-arounds) and only Nalthians are naturally born with breath or its equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 @Shardlet That's about it, no speculation required at this point. I guess you missed my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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