Spolier Main characters in 2n half of SA

[bdoble97]

  May have spoliers As Brandon Sanderson has said that SA is a 10 book series split into two 5 book sets. Brandon has said that there will be new main characters in the 2nd set if 5 book with Lift being one of the new main characters. Does this mean that all the characters that I have fallen in love with will all die off by the end if book 5. I cant see that happening or at lesthope it does not. In a Q&A Sanderson stated ge has neen writing Dalinar from the age 15 so if any of the main characters do make it out I say its Dalinar. 

[Spoolofwhool]

3 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

  May have spoliers As Brandon Sanderson has said that SA is a 10 book series split into two 5 book sets. Brandon has said that there will be new main characters in the 2nd set if 5 book with Lift being one of the new main characters. Does this mean that all the characters that I have fallen in love with will all die off by the end if book 5. I cant see that happening or at lesthope it does not. In a Q&A Sanderson stated ge has neen writing Dalinar from the age 15 so if any of the main characters do make it out I say its Dalinar. 

Why does changing the main characters require killing off the previous ones? There is nothing in writing rules that say that you have to.

[bdoble97]

I guess your right. I jus thought if he is going to chang up the main characters thebones we have been following would of had to die. Why els would he have to introduce knew main characters 

[Spoolofwhool]

8 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

I guess your right. I jus thought if he is going to chang up the main characters thebones we have been following would of had to die. Why els would he have to introduce knew main characters 

Probably to make the narrative more varied. That's pretty good method of making the story more interesting. 

[Argel he/him]

Each SA book has one flashback character, making that character the main focus of their flashback book. From that perspective, SA is 10 books. That SA3 will be Dalinar's flashback book doesn't mean everyone else is dead or that they do not get their own PoVs. Think about how much time Kaladin had in Shallan's book (SA2)... Of course, it doesn't mean that some or all of them will not die in the front 5 books. I think Brandon mentioned that we could have a flashback book for a character that has already died, so just being in the back 5 books doesn't mean those characters are still alive.  Short version is knowing who the flashback character for a book is does not tell us much more beyond that.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On a related note, we have seen all 5 of the Arc 2 characters within the 1st 2 books. Lift and Taln even got viewpoint interludes, so i imagine that some of the 1st 5 will have a PoV, just not as major. Also, Arc 2 is roughly 15 years after the end of Arc 1, so changing up the viewpoints seems fitting for that.

And as Argel said, he wants to give each of them a proper story via focus books. Brandon did indeed threaten that he could kill off a flashback character before their book and still make the story work.

[Pagerunner he/him]

Don't worry: they'll still be prevalent in the second half of the series. Here's a WoB that confirms it. Characters like Renarin and Jasnah aren't 'main characters' for the first five books, per se, and they still play large roles. Other characters like Taravingian, Navani, and Adolin won't ever be the 'main character' of a book (at least, according to the current plan), but they are still important characters and get PoV passages. The ten 'main characters,' also referred to as 'flashback characters,' have a specific function to play in how Brandon outlines his books and who he is exploring in flashback sequences; they're not the only important characters in the story.

Brandon has spoken of why he's giving each book a different main character: one reason is to give each book a distinctive flavor, to distinguish them from one another. He's also using the different books to explore different orders of the Knights Radiant, so some of the later PoV characters will definitely fit better with later orders. And, don't forget, Brandon likes to play the long game (some might even call it over-plotting), so some of these characters (Taln, especially) have secrets that we'll be slowly learning, over many books and many years.

As others have said, this doesn't mean they'll everyone will survive; some of us subscribe to a theory that there's an ongoing battle in the afterlife, and that we'll get PoV of deceased characters. But there will be much more continuity with characters than we saw between the original Mistborn trilogy and Wax and Wayne. A time gap is planned between books 5 and 6, but it's only planned to be something like 15 years.

[bdoble97]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

On a related note, we have seen all 5 of the Arc 2 characters within the 1st 2 books. Lift and Taln even got viewpoint interludes, so i imagine that some of the 1st 5 will have a PoV, just not as major. Also, Arc 2 is roughly 15 years after the end of Arc 1, so changing up the viewpoints seems fitting for that.

And as Argel said, he wants to give each of them a proper story via focus books. Brandon did indeed threaten that he could kill off a flashback character before their book and still make the story work.

I did not know the 2nd 5  will be 15 years after the 1st 5. Hmmm how old would that make Dalinar in his 70s. Does stormlight slow down the ageing prosses. Dalinar has definitely become my favorite character in anything I  have ever read that includes books like The Wheel of Time A Song of Ice and Fire Tolkien's books, too many star wars book to name them all and many other books both fantasy spy thrillers and stuff like that

[Eki]

Stormlight definitely helps people keep healthier, even if they don't have a Nahel bond. I'm not sure if we know if it, or a Nahel bond, slows down aging. Rosharan years are slightly longer than "standard" years, so that would make him even older than his Rosharan age would imply.

I think the main characters (the ones who survive) might take a backseat role, maybe dealing more with administration and stuff. Or they will be on some mysterious mission we readers are not supposed to know about until the last few books (kind of like that time Rand disappears for a while in WoT). Assuming the climax of book five is widely known to the people, they would be living (or, you know, dead) legends. There are plenty of interesting things they could do without being main characters.

[bdoble97]

Spolier Yea but Dalinar is now bonded to the storm father I think he will be in the later 5.  If not mabye Renarin will becbecome POV and be war veteran and his early thirties

[The One Who Connects he/him]

21 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

Spolier Yea but Dalinar is now bonded to the storm father I think he will be in the later 5.  If not mabye Renarin will becbecome POV and be war veteran and his early thirties

If the Dalinar comment is about him surviving to be in the Back 5 storyline, maybe. We do know, however, that Book 3 is his PoV Book.

[bdoble97]

Yea i am so excited that book 3 is Dalinar's back story. From what I've heard Brandon Sanderson read he sounds like an absolute War Machine badass worthy of the nickname The Blackthorn. 

[maxal she/her]

It isn't so much a spoiler anymore: the author has been very transparent as to who is getting those precious flashbacks. He has also explained how his strategy was to deconstruct the series such as being able to refer to any given book as "this character" or "this character"''s book. Of course, he understands every readers millage may vary and while WoR was Shallan's book, there are readers which feel other aspects of it were more significant.

This being said, he did also say main characters who survive the first arc will still have a role to play into the second half and several would have on-going arcs within the two parts. My money is on Kaladin/Shallan still having very large arcs into the second set of books, but nothing has been confirmed just yet. All we know is people will die, including future flashback characters.

Whenever Brandon mentions the "main characters" of SA, he refers to those 10 characters and not anyone else. Other characters may still have an arc, but it will never be a focus or a very large one. While other characters may have an important role to play, the major story arcs and the most important characters are the 10 which were mentioned. 

Taravangian Adolin, Navani may have occasional POV within the story, but whichever role they have to play will be extremely limited.

My personal and main criticism for this chosen line-up is it features 10 very similar characters, some not sounding distinctive enough from others to warrant a major character arcs. I find it a strange choice when other, arguably more interesting, characters are available.

43 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

Spolier Yea but Dalinar is now bonded to the storm father I think he will be in the later 5.  If not mabye Renarin will becbecome POV and be war veteran and his early thirties

Oh please, I hope not. There is nothing I want to read less than Renarin somehow, by some twist of magic, to actually become a soldier. Already, several readers got the feeling he was only made a Radiant because of something he does not control (his disability) as opposed to something he actually accomplish/did. Have magic suddenly descend on him and turn him into the only career path he was ever able to envision would feel like cheating. 

There is nothing I want to read less than Renarin actually becoming a real soldier.

 

[muco]

Even with 15 year gap between the arcs, likes of Kaladin, Shallan & Co, the younger ones will be in their thirties, a prime warrior age if any, perfect balance between strength & experience.

Not sure culling of people in their prime just to bring in younger ones makes sense. Oh some of these people might not make it but I doubt the intention of second arc is to get fresh characters.

I guess the gap would be to further the story than any other reason, especially when you consider it's just 15 years...

 

[PantsForSquares he/him]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

Oh please, I hope not. There is nothing I want to read less than Renarin somehow, by some twist of magic, to actually become a soldier. Already, several readers got the feeling he was only made a Radiant because of something he does not control (his disability) as opposed to something he actually accomplish/did. Have magic suddenly descend on him and turn him into the only career path he was ever able to envision would feel like cheating. 

There is nothing I want to read less than Renarin actually becoming a real soldier.

I got the impression that Renarin was chosen sometime during or after the Battle of the Tower* - which means that whatever went on in his head during that time was what attracted Glys in the first place. I never got the idea that it was his disability that made the Nahel bond possible.

*If someone can pinpoint the first moment when he's described as not wearing glasses, that would help a bunch to get a proper timeline on Renarin's bonding.

I can see Renarin being forced into a leadership role, since he's one of the first Radiants, but I doubt that he's going to be an actual soldier in the vein of Kaladin, Adolin or Dalinar. While he's got the discipline and initiative, his gift of foresight and his intellectual leanings make him infinitely more useful in a support role than anything. He might get involved in early fights, but once the Radiants are more significant in number, we'll probably see him manage things from the sidelines (or go on a secret knowledge quest like Jasnah did).

[maxal she/her]

22 minutes ago, muco said:

Even with 15 year gap between the arcs, likes of Kaladin, Shallan & Co, the younger ones will be in their thirties, a prime warrior age if any, perfect balance between strength & experience.

Not sure culling of people in their prime just to bring in younger ones makes sense. Oh some of these people might not make it but I doubt the intention of second arc is to get fresh characters.

I guess the gap would be to further the story than any other reason, especially when you consider it's just 15 years...

 

There is another reason... Brandon once explained how WoK Prime used to focus on: Kaladin, Jasnah, Dalinar, Taln, Renarin and probably the ancestor of Shallan's character. He said while these were good pages, focusing on so many characters turn the story into a dead end. In other words, not much was happening. Hence, he decided to postpone Jasnah, Renarin and Taln's story arcs to the second half of SA in order to focus exclusively on Dalinar, Kaladin and Shallan with minor incursion within Szeth and Eshonai as required. 

There is much to say about the process as I for one have a hard time picturing how story arcs can be moved 15 years into the future. The one clue I have perhaps deals with how the author approaches his characters. In other words, he feels he needs to spend A LOT of pages on Renarin, Taln, Jasnah and Lift. He said exploring Renarin takes a lot of time because he finds him a very complex and interesting character (I have a very different opinion than him on the character, but he's the author, not I). It may also his secretive nature makes it longer to actually get something out of him. I am still not sure what to think about all of this. From my reader's perspective, I do think Brandon sometimes overdoes his character. I felt he overdid Kaladin a bit in WoR: not all POV chapters were required. IMHO, we could have gotten the exact same story with a bit less, but obviously the author thought those were needed.

All in all, I think Brandon is shying from giving us certain viewpoints because he cannot envision how he could write their stories with a more limited canvas than the one he assumed he needed. Hence, the Dalinar/Kaladin/Shallan of the back five are Jasnah/Lift/Renarin with Taln/Shalash as replacements for Szeth/Eshonai. I still have to say how this will work out as I am not fond of the back five alignment so far.

13 minutes ago, PantsForSquares said:

I got the impression that Renarin was chosen sometime during or after the Battle of the Tower* - which means that whatever went on in his head during that time was what attracted Glys in the first place. I never got the idea that it was his disability that made the Nahel bond possible.

*If someone can pinpoint the first moment when he's described as not wearing glasses, that would help a bunch to get a proper timeline on Renarin's bonding.

I can see Renarin being forced into a leadership role, since he's one of the first Radiants, but I doubt that he's going to be an actual soldier in the vein of Kaladin, Adolin or Dalinar. While he's got the discipline and initiative, his gift of foresight and his intellectual leanings make him infinitely more useful in a support role than anything. He might get involved in early fights, but once the Radiants are more significant in number, we'll probably see him manage things from the sidelines (or go on a secret knowledge quest like Jasnah did).

Renarin stopped wearing his glasses sometimes around chapter 32, but Brandon has said he has been a Radiant since before it was apparent. When exactly is currently unknown.

Why he was chosen is not well explained, but his disability currently appears to be the one leading element as the character has not done anything outstanding prior to having his spren we could see of. Still, it could have happened, but the way the narrative has been written, Renarin more or less comes across as the "unexplained Radiant". 

This being said, I don't feel Renarin has the discipline and the initiative to be a good soldier... He doesn't listen to orders, he endangers himself which causes harm to the tactics, he downright refuses to contribute when he can actually do something to help and he drops his training instead of finding a way around his issue. Sure, he always has good reasons for everything he does, but in the end, he isn't good soldier material. All in all, he has too many excuses and not enough accountability which is one of the reasons the character bothers me from times to times.

Sigh. There are not enough characters capable of carrying action during this second half. I still wonder how it will play out.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by maxal

[Xaklys he/him]

Arc One: Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Szeth, and Eshonai

Arc Two: Renarin, Lift, Jasnah, Taln (Talenel), and Ash (Shalash)

That is what Brandon has said (I don't have the WoB but you can look it up, I believe I am right).  I think it will be neat to get the flashbacks of two of the heralds.  But as everyone has said, this doesn't mean that they will even be in the main plot of the second arc.  We don't know who is gonna die yet, my money is on Dalinar and Szeth though at least.  The heralds have already shown to be involved with the happenings on Roshar in plain sight.  We've already seen Jezrien, Shalash, Talenel, and Nalan, 

[bdoble97]

1 hour ago, Xaklys said:

Arc One: Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Szeth, and Eshonai

Arc Two: Renarin, Lift, Jasnah, Taln (Talenel), and Ash (Shalash)

That is what Brandon has said (I don't have the WoB but you can look it up, I believe I am right).  I think it will be neat to get the flashbacks of two of the heralds.  But as everyone has said, this doesn't mean that they will even be in the main plot of the second arc.  We don't know who is gonna die yet, my money is on Dalinar and Szeth though at least.  The heralds have already shown to be involved with the happenings on Roshar in plain sight.  We've already seen Jezrien, Shalash, Talenel, and Nalan, 

Would love to see Renarin develop into a warrior slash soldier in the first five and then be one of the main leads in the second 5 is a battle-tested veteran. If we could only have one of the main characters from the first five in the second fight I really would like it to be Dalinar I can't stress how much I love that guy, like I've said in other post he  has become my favorite character out of  anything I have read. 

[Xaklys he/him]

Oh I love Dalinar, I just don't see him surviving personally.  I really want Kaladin and Shallan to still be around in the second arc though, I do enjoy Kaladin's Superman moments and Shallan is my favorite character.

 

[maxal she/her]

27 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

Would love to see Renarin develop into a warrior slash soldier in the first five and then be one of the main leads in the second 5 is a battle-tested veteran. If we could only have one of the main characters from the first five in the second fight I really would like it to be Dalinar I can't stress how much I love that guy, like I've said in other post he  has become my favorite character out of  anything I have read. 

I feel I am the only one who doesn't want Renarin to ever become a soldier... It seems such an easy fix to his issues: give him magic powers and make them go away. I'd rather read Renarin find his own way despite his disability, figuring out where he could be more useful and accept it won't be the battle field. Even better, I'd rather he becomes a stronger character because of his disability, but outside the battle field. I wouldn't personally satisfied to read him as a battle veteran in the second arc. This should be Adolin, not Renarin.

This being said, I'd rather Brandon focused on Adolin than Renarin. I find him the more interesting brother or both. I wouldn't mind both, but I wish he had chosen to give Adolin something resembling a focus arc.

[bdoble97]

5 minutes ago, maxal said:

I feel I am the only one who doesn't want Renarin to ever become a soldier... It seems such an easy fix to his issues: give him magic powers and make them go away. I'd rather read Renarin find his own way despite his disability, figuring out where he could be more useful and accept it won't be the battle field. Even better, I'd rather he becomes a stronger character because of his disability, but outside the battle field. I wouldn't personally satisfied to read him as a battle veteran in the second arc. This should be Adolin, not Renarin.

This being said, I'd rather Brandon focused on Adolin than Renarin. I find him the more interesting brother or both. I wouldn't mind both, but I wish he had chosen to give Adolin something resembling a focus arc.

I do like Adolin alot more in my reread of Words of Radiance. I do want him to have a big roll in the rest of the books. Bit i juat think he ia not going to make it all the way to the next 5. Renarin as a solder is cool to me probably bc I feel like I can relate to that tipe of person more than a politician or philosopher or ardent. 

[Xaklys he/him]

6 minutes ago, maxal said:

I feel I am the only one who doesn't want Renarin to ever become a soldier... It seems such an easy fix to his issues: give him magic powers and make them go away. I'd rather read Renarin find his own way despite his disability, figuring out where he could be more useful and accept it won't be the battle field. Even better, I'd rather he becomes a stronger character because of his disability, but outside the battle field. I wouldn't personally satisfied to read him as a battle veteran in the second arc. This should be Adolin, not Renarin.

This being said, I'd rather Brandon focused on Adolin than Renarin. I find him the more interesting brother or both. I wouldn't mind both, but I wish he had chosen to give Adolin something resembling a focus arc.

I agree with you about Renarin, he is a Truthwatcher, not something like a Windrunner.  He could fight if he needed to but his role is to "see" not to fight and defend.  Now on the point about Adolin, we haven't had a chance to see anything from Renarin's POV yet, we honestly haven't seen much of him in general, so we'll see how his character develops.  I do like Adolin, but Renarin being a POV character and a Radiant interests me.

[maxal she/her]

1 minute ago, bdoble97 said:

I do like Adolin alot more in my reread of Words of Radiance. I do want him to have a big roll in the rest of the books. Bit i juat think he ia not going to make it all the way to the next 5. Renarin as a solder is cool to me probably bc I feel like I can relate to that tipe of person more than a politician or philosopher or ardent. 

Renarin's character has no reason to be a soldier: the character was define over his inability to actually become one. Even with the advantage of a Shardplate, he is still lagging in his training. For my part, I find the idea of the "physically weak younger brother" being given "magical powers" in order to give him "physical strength" not very interesting. It removes him from his agency. What has Renarin done to become a soldier? Nothing. He threatened to kill himself unless he was given a real chance, with Shards which left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Had he been working, in secret, to fit himself up, despite the interdiction. Had he insisted on being trained, even if only in the secured training field, then yes maybe I'd buy a story arc where he actually becomes a Radiant, but as he stands now, no. I feel it would ruin the character more than help him, but YMMV. 

6 minutes ago, Xaklys said:

I agree with you about Renarin, he is a Truthwatcher, not something like a Windrunner.  He could fight if he needed to but his role is to "see" not to fight and defend.  Now on the point about Adolin, we haven't had a chance to see anything from Renarin's POV yet, we honestly haven't seen much of him in general, so we'll see how his character develops.  I do like Adolin, but Renarin being a POV character and a Radiant interests me.

While I'd love to read Renarin as an occasional POV character or a supporting one, I am not interested in him as a main protagonist. He is too internal. Everything happens in between him and himself which implies his story arc will about him... and himself talking to himself and not sharing with anyone. I find characters such as him terribly frustrating and not particularly interesting especially since every single other main protagonist evolves on the internal side more than the external one.

Adolin is one of the only external character which is one of the reason I find him more interesting. He actually talks to others, he says what he thinks, he doesn't hold back and he is entering within relationship with other characters.

For my part, Renarin is just one too many deeply internal characters. I'd rather the story focused more on Adolin who is more action-oriented and is about to fall down hard. Now that's interesting. Renarin being insecure doesn't strike me as something we need a strong focus on. The visions also work better as a plot device if we, the readers, aren't constantly within Renarin's head.

Of course, YMMV. I am a huge Adolin's fan and I am terrible disappointed in the author for not wanting to explore the character more. It isn't I dislike Renarin, but I just do not find him as interesting as Adolin.

[Xaklys he/him]

Well, Brandon has a plan.  For not being one of the flashback characters, I think Adolin has had a lot of screen time, especially in Words of Radiance.  With the assassination of Sadeas, I can only imagine that he will be more important for a least a little bit.  And as I said before, we haven't even seen Renarin's POV yet so we don't know what it will be like, I would think he talks a significant amount with Glys so we will see.  The idea of him having visions of the future sounds really cool to me while reading his POV.

[bdoble97]

6 minutes ago, Xaklys said:

Well, Brandon has a plan.  For not being one of the flashback characters, I think Adolin has had a lot of screen time, especially in Words of Radiance.  With the assassination of Sadeas, I can only imagine that he will be more important for a least a little bit.  And as I said before, we haven't even seen Renarin's POV yet so we don't know what it will be like, I would think he talks a significant amount with Glys so we will see.  The idea of him having visions of the future sounds really cool to me while reading his POV.

The idea of him having visions of the future could help the armys on the battlefield tremendously saveing countless lives.