Qs about Jasnah's last chapter

[marianmi]

1) Almighty

"You're so convinced that there is no God"

"The Almighty is -"

"Oh," Wit said, "I don't mean the Almighty. Tanavast was a fine" ...

 

So: Almighty == Tanavast => the God Wit was talking about is Honor? Can this mean that actually Honor was not splintered, the shard is actually OK, it's only Tanavast that died? And the champion would be someone that will take the shard and compete with Rayse+Odium combo?

 

2) The Desolation

"A storm is coming, a terrible storm. It will bring the Voidbringers to -"

"Already here"

...

"The storm has come already? The parshmen have transformed?"

"Yes and no"

....

"That's not how it happened in the past"

 

So: in the past, there was a storm, and the parshmen were transformed. Now, we have a storm, and the parshmen are being transformed *by* the storm. This begs the question - how were parshmen transformed in the past???

 

3) Elsecalling

"Did you need to Elsecall this far out in the middle of nowhere?"

"I was somewhat pressed at the time of my escape. I'm lucky to be here at all"

 

What is this about? It can't be about surviving the boat - clearly she travelled a lot in Shadesmar, she visited the highsprens (probably in their city). So what is this about? What did she came out in the middle of nowhere? Was she *escaping* Shadesmar? Was someone after her in Shadesmar?

 

4) The backpack

When she exits Shadesmar, she has a backpack. Where from? Was maybe this not her first exit from Shadesmar after the boat? Or did she meet some other human being in Shadesmar which gave her the backpack??

 

[Yata he/him]

26 minutes ago, marianmi said:

1) Almighty

"You're so convinced that there is no God"

"The Almighty is -"

"Oh," Wit said, "I don't mean the Almighty. Tanavast was a fine" ...

 

So: Almighty == Tanavast => the God Wit was talking about is Honor? Can this mean that actually Honor was not splintered, the shard is actually OK, it's only Tanavast that died? And the champion would be someone that will take the shard and compete with Rayse+Odium combo?

Simply Wit doesn't think to the Shards as Gods but just as a Human with godlike power....He probably thinks to Adonalsium as God.

And to made clear your doubt: Tanavast was the Honor's Vessel. He was killed by Odium (and his Cognitive SHadow merged with Stormfather) and the Shard he held was Splintered.

28 minutes ago, marianmi said:

2) The Desolation

We have no idea....Maybe as before the Everstorm, the Listener has willing to bond a VoidSpren.

 

29 minutes ago, marianmi said:

3) Elsecalling

Another "I don't know" it's possible that Jashah's Agenda diverged by HighSpren's one and they try to catch her...It's possible she meet another group/organization and the relationship didn't end well

31 minutes ago, marianmi said:

4) The backpack

She may have Soulcasted it, but really the text seems to point as something more. Jasnah maybe reached some other Shardworld or simply they may meet someone in the Cognitive (The Cosmere is full of Worldhopper after all)

[nervousnerd he/him]

49 minutes ago, Yata said:

She may have Soulcasted it, but really the text seems to point as something more. Jasnah maybe reached some other Shardworld or simply they may meet someone in the Cognitive (The Cosmere is full of Worldhopper after all)

We have seen something like this before (Secret History Spoilers):

Spoiler

Kelsier also obtained a pack to carry in the cognitive realm. It is interesting in that he essentially takes objects (or maybe the idea of objects) from the physical world into the cognitive realm for him to use. He also talks about coaxing them to life in a way that does remind me of soulcasting.

 

[Yata he/him]

23 minutes ago, nervousnerd said:

We have seen something like this before (Secret History Spoilers):

  Hide contents

Kelsier also obtained a pack to carry in the cognitive realm. It is interesting in that he essentially takes objects (or maybe the idea of objects) from the physical world into the cognitive realm for him to use. He also talks about coaxing them to life in a way that does remind me of soulcasting.

 

Yes but I really doubt it's the same case...Jashan took with her the backpack in the physical.... I don't think she may do something like that. Also if in Stormlight Archive someone else made a similar feat.

Nazh recovered the Jasnah's work from the ocean....But we don't know if He actually take the research with him in the Physical or simply copy it in a new and real book

[Argel he/him]

Brandon has an unpublished scene showing what happens right after Jasnah is "killed" on the ship that explains 3 and 4. It's a rough draft, so not canon, but gives you a good idea of what to expect.

http://www.tor.com/2014/08/06/stormlight-archive-scene-after-words-of-radiance

[goody153]

5 hours ago, marianmi said:

1) Almighty

"You're so convinced that there is no God"

"The Almighty is -"

"Oh," Wit said, "I don't mean the Almighty. Tanavast was a fine" ...

 

So: Almighty == Tanavast => the God Wit was talking about is Honor? Can this mean that actually Honor was not splintered, the shard is actually OK, it's only Tanavast that died? And the champion would be someone that will take the shard and compete with Rayse+Odium combo?

 

Yeah Tanavast == Almighty == Honor. Pretty sure Honor is dead by that time, referenced by many in the books(Syl, Dalinar and Stormfather), even in epigraphs it's mentioned and is casually mentioned by Mr Sanderson in some of his WoB as one of the splintered shards that Odium killed.

Quote

2) The Desolation

"A storm is coming, a terrible storm. It will bring the Voidbringers to -"

"Already here"

...

"The storm has come already? The parshmen have transformed?"

"Yes and no"

....

"That's not how it happened in the past"

 

So: in the past, there was a storm, and the parshmen were transformed. Now, we have a storm, and the parshmen are being transformed *by* the storm. This begs the question - how were parshmen transformed in the past???

 

 I thought the "Storm" that Jasnah meant was metaphorical or maybe prophetic like with visions and such. As for the storm named Everstorm(the name of the storm that the parshendi summoned and is apparently his own God-spren(prolly) or the opposite of Stormfather) apparently is actually new from what i understood of Dalinar&Stormfather's conversation does the same thing which is bring back Voidbringers but is a new way of doing it. So it's functionally the same i suspect.

 

Quote

What do you know of this storm that the Parshendi unleashed?”
THE EVERSTORM. IT IS A NEW THING, BUT OLD OF DESIGN. IT ROUNDS THE WORLD NOW, AND CARRIES WITH
IT HIS SPREN. ANY OF THE OLD PEOPLE IT TOUCHES WILL TAKE ON THEIR NEW FORMS.
“Voidbringers.”
THAT IS ONE TERM FOR THEM.

Maybe kinda like how Flash Drive(USB device) and cloud storage (dropbox , google drive) store files in different ways and have their own advantage and disadvatages but they still functionally fulfills the same purpose which is practically storing files. Like maybe old method of how Odium creates voidbringers is less efficient harder etc while everstorm is a better method but still practically does the same thing.

It's probably just because back then Odium didn't have the freedom to do such thing and summon his own version of highstorm(Everstorm)  because of the intervention of Honor and Cultivation who didn't go hiding.(you would understand what i meant if you read mistborn secret history and the original trilogy but i'm not saying the details just incase you haven't).

Quote

3) Elsecalling

"Did you need to Elsecall this far out in the middle of nowhere?"

"I was somewhat pressed at the time of my escape. I'm lucky to be here at all"

 

What is this about? It can't be about surviving the boat - clearly she travelled a lot in Shadesmar, she visited the highsprens (probably in their city). So what is this about? What did she came out in the middle of nowhere? Was she *escaping* Shadesmar? Was someone after her in Shadesmar?

Maybe time flows differently in Shadesmar that she didn't know she was there for a long time after the wreckage? Or maybe she got teleported somewhere else before that like somewhere disasterous maybe Braize(crazy assumption) or maybe just somewhere else(like a place full of ghostbloods or sons of honor or maybe Skybreakers or whatever that got her into trouble) ?  

Quote

4) The backpack

When she exits Shadesmar, she has a backpack. Where from? Was maybe this not her first exit from Shadesmar after the boat? Or did she meet some other human being in Shadesmar which gave her the backpack

Maybe ? Maybe she ended in some other world idk.

Except for #1 i could be wrong with 2-3-4 and i understood it wrongly.

Edited September 25, 2016 by goody153

[Eki]

I think Jasnah says "That's not how it happened in the past" after Hoid mentions the storm is going eastward, so maybe that's the difference from before. That doesn't quite match what the Stormfather says, but maybe there's something else to it as well.

[If.you.die.I.go.stupid]

57 minutes ago, Eki said:

I think Jasnah says "That's not how it happened in the past" after Hoid mentions the storm is going eastward, so maybe that's the difference from before. That doesn't quite match what the Stormfather says, but maybe there's something else to it as well.

Just to add to this, Hoid also says that he thinks the storm will change the parshmen. I assumed her response was to the method of change not the direction of the storm.

 

 

[BlackYeti he/him]

7 hours ago, Yata said:

Yes but I really doubt it's the same case...Jashan took with her the backpack in the physical.... I don't think she may do something like that. Also if in Stormlight Archive someone else made a similar feat.

Nazh recovered the Jasnah's work from the ocean....But we don't know if He actually take the research with him in the Physical or simply copy it in a new and real book

I don't think that @nervousnerd's point is entirely without merit, although he's certainly missing a step. Unlike the character in the spoiler box, Jasnah is a Surgebinder with access to the Surge of Transportation, which we know can bring things into Shadesmar. Also we've seen that she is able to Soulcast whilst both in the Physical and in Shadesmar. If she were to find the cognitive aspect of a backpack, then I could conceive of her using Transportation to bring it fully into Shadesmar with her.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

10 hours ago, marianmi said:

So: in the past, there was a storm, and the parshmen were transformed. Now, we have a storm, and the parshmen are being transformed *by* the storm. This begs the question - how were parshmen transformed in the past???

I don't remember anything implying there was a storm in the past. The Stormfather calling the Everstorm "a new thing" makes it seem like a storm didn't happen back then too.

As for in the past, they may have done it willingly because science and discovery The Unmade (semi-implied to be their gods) may have forced them to. Unlucky during a Highstorm.. there's all manner of ways it could have happened before.

[Yata he/him]

43 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I don't remember anything implying there was a storm in the past. The Stormfather calling the Everstorm "a new thing" makes it seem like a storm didn't happen back then too.

As for in the past, they may have done it willingly because science and discovery The Unmade (semi-implied to be their gods) may have forced them to. Unlucky during a Highstorm.. there's all manner of ways it could have happened before.

Jasnah knowed from Highspren's old information of the Storm and she thinked that because the Everstorm is already here. The Listeners are already voidbringers. Hoid corrects her said that the Storm will change the Listeners and Jasnah is surprised because it doesn't fit with the previous Desolations (I can't quote the book, because it's in the wrong language).

Anyway this mean that in the past there is an "another Storm" (I don't call it Everstorm because as far as we know it's different) that worked differently from the Everstorm

[muco]

Last chapter of WOR was a curveball.

I remember Jashnah saying that the desolation is not happening like it used to. It implies that the Spren has kept detailed records of how things happened previously.

 

This time around, it's more or less a fresh slate. With not all heralds not returning, the desolation happening quite differently, there is bound to be a lot of unexpected things that will be new to everyone who think they know how things will turn out.

[marianmi]

Yeah I don't think "storm" is used metaphorically. If you look at the quotes I gave in the first post, storm is repeated.

The only thing that makes sense is that there were storms of odium before, but without spren. The storms were just for destruction. The parshmen were changing in a different way, tho it must have been also something on large scale...

 

According to the diagram, the Unmade are not all intelligent. So I think the unmade influence is not very direct - e.g. Death rattles, the Thrill.

 

Jasnah world hopping - I don't think so. Just going to shadesmar does not mean you can go from there to other worlds, I think there are only few places in there you can worldhop, and I don't think she gathered that knowledge in such a short time - remember she could not explain shadesmar at the beginning of the book, even tho' she had years to talk to Ivory about it. So I think the backpack is from someone else she met in Shadesmar.

But again I can't explain why she exited in the middle of nowhere, after travelling so much in Shadesmar. Or if someone was chasing her... who or why couldn't they follow her in physical? Maybe odium spren, that any harm her in physical???

[nervousnerd he/him]

7 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

I don't think that @nervousnerd's point is entirely without merit, although he's certainly missing a step. Unlike the character in the spoiler box, Jasnah is a Surgebinder with access to the Surge of Transportation, which we know can bring things into Shadesmar. Also we've seen that she is able to Soulcast whilst both in the Physical and in Shadesmar. If she were to find the cognitive aspect of a backpack, then I could conceive of her using Transportation to bring it fully into Shadesmar with her.

 I'm not necessarily saying that it is the same thing. I just thought it was an interesting thing that came to my mind. There is no proof obviously that just anyone can soulcast or 'transport.' I do wonder what is happening in SH though and if anyone in the cognitive realm can do this.

I also thought of it like this: if Jasnah is able to move her entire physical self into shadesmar then she can likely do the same for certain objects. She may not even have to leave Shadesmar as she can interact with anything that is in the physical realm from there. I'm not sure how much sense that makes.

Edited September 25, 2016 by nervousnerd