Farnsworth Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I created a proto-version of this on the Ym board, but wanted to put it here. What we know: Ym believes that there was originally one being, but it couldn't do anything because it was alone. So, it split up into many peices to experience. Some of the original shardholders were immortal (they were dragons). You can find the link to the WoB in the WoB link on the shard. Some of the original shardholders were good people. What I think: Adonalsium was shattered for several reasons, one of which was the fact that with an all powerful being, the world was stagnating. This would be especially frustrating for immoral being with a long-term perspective on things. Since some of the shardholders were good, there has to be a reason other than power. Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I have to missed it. I don't remember any WoB who explicy states there are not-Human Vessels (May you post it here pls ?) The only one I remember is about "all the original vessels are from Yolen" and this may of course keep open the possibility of a Dragon's Vessel or a Shodel's Vessel (If I remember right the 3 intelligent races of yolen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtuousTraveller he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Figberts said: Adonalsium was shattered for several reasons, one of which was the fact that with an all powerful being, the world was stagnating. This would be especially frustrating for immoral being with a long-term perspective on things. Since some of the shardholders were good, there has to be a reason other than power. Ideas? I believe there's a WoB that talks about an "opposing force" to Adonalsium that played into the shattering, however I don't know that I've seen anything about a stagnating world being a part of this. Where are you pulling that idea from? I'm assuming many, if not all of the original Vessels were good, but over time the intent of the shards they held influenced them in negative ways (consider Ati and Ruin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Figberts said: Some of the original shardholders were immortal (they were dragons). You can find the link to the WoB in the WoB link on the shard. This definitely needs an exact source. 27 minutes ago, VirtuousTraveller said: I believe there's a WoB that talks about an "opposing force" to Adonalsium that played into the shattering This has since been clarified. Brandon reminded us that anyone and anything opposing Adonalsium can be considered a "force," strongly suggesting that it was the original Vessels who constituted this "opposing force." As in, Ati, Leras, Reyse, and company opposed Adonalsium (they caused, or led to, his Shattering after all), so they can be considered to be an "opposing force." I do not believe Brandon was quite as verbose in his comment on this, but I am confident his meaning was along these lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, VirtuousTraveller said: however I don't know that I've seen anything about a stagnating world being a part of this. Where are you pulling that idea from? I think he's speculating that was the reason, not that we have any WoB for or against it. That idea has come up before, because there does have to be a reason for good people to work with e.g. Rayse to make it happen. So it's not a power grab. I think there may be a WoB about he vessels having different goals? Certainly some have hinted at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote however I don't know that I've seen anything about a stagnating world being a part of this. Probably from the Liar of Partinel chapters available floating around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardjet Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 16 minutes ago, PallonianFire said: Probably from the Liar of Partinel chapters available floating around. And, it bears repeating, those Liar chapters are not canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 hours ago, Ardjet said: And, it bears repeating, those Liar chapters are not canon. Very much not canon, yep. There are probably some assumptions we can safely make from them, but I wouldn't try to base a theory on it or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Stagnating implies little to no change. Liars of Partinel spoilers Spoiler The creeping death thing going on is destructive, not stagnating. If that was what lead to the shattering then it could be that Adonalsium was not doing anything/enough about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted October 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 @Yata Sorry I didn't include the actual quotes. Here they are: Quote INTERVIEW: Jan 7th, 2015 Central Library, Seattle, WA (Paraphrased) QUESTION What do you want to know about Frost? Everything. BRANDON SANDERSON I’m not going to tell you everything about Frost. He’s still alive. He can be killed, he’s just functionally immortal, he just doesn’t age. He was born as one. It is a race. And: Quote INTERVIEW: Mar 21st, 2014 WOR Signing Table Q&A (Verbatim) NUTIKETAIEL Were the original sixteen Shardholders after the shattering all human? BRANDON SANDERSON Uh … RAFO. There are three races on Yolen. Three sentient races. Since Frost is a Dragon, and he's immortal, and he's one of the races on Yolen that some of the original Shardbearers were, some of the original shardbearers were immortal dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted October 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Back to the thread though, even if it wasn't stagnation it was clearly a problem coming from the fact that Adonalsium was a single, powerful creature. All the power was in one spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 18 minutes ago, Figberts said: @Yata Sorry I didn't include the actual quotes. Here they are: And: Since Frost is a Dragon, and he's immortal, and he's one of the races on Yolen that some of the original Shardbearers were, some of the original shardbearers were immortal dragons. Fair support to a theory that at least one original shareholder. However, since it isn't fact you probably shouldn't state it as such. I do agree that chances are very good that at least 1 was a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 28 minutes ago, Figberts said: @Yata Sorry I didn't include the actual quotes. Here they are: And: Since Frost is a Dragon, and he's immortal, and he's one of the races on Yolen that some of the original Shardbearers were, some of the original shardbearers were immortal dragons. I read the first one as someone asking about Frost being a dragon in the middle, but that part wasn't transcribed. And that's why he says "He was born as one. It is a race.". They might all be immortal, but I don't think that WoB says so. And like Spoolofwool says, in the second one Brandon specifically avoids answering. I agree that it's likely that not all of them are human, but the WoB doesn't say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) FWIW, dragons are part of the mythology of Nalthis. Well, let's say they know about dragons in a mythological way, but not necessarily e.g. worshiping dragons. It's the only book with the word "dragon" in it, and we have a WoB that it's not due to Nalthis to Englidh translation. That suggests Edgli (Endownment) might be a dragon. Also, there was magic pre-shattering, so not all of the power was concentrated in Adonalsium. Most presumably was, but there had to be enough left to pull the shattering off. Edited October 10, 2016 by Argel Fixed "tr" hanging sentence about translation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Argel said: Also, there was magic pre-shattering, so not all of the power was concentrated in Adonalsium. Most presumably was, but there had to be enough left to pull the shattering off. They could have used Adonalsium's own magic to do it. Presumably, he was invested in Yolen. Also, Adonalsium left lots of splinters and stuff all over, so the power was spread out a bit over the Cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted October 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Yes, but the question remains about why good people/dragons/type3s would kill Adonalsium if he were a good entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 16 minutes ago, Figberts said: Yes, but the question remains about why good people/dragons/type3s would kill Adonalsium if he were a good entity. Future sight (assuming it existed back then), the "greater good," paranoia about a "God" who could control them, to prove that they can/for the thrill of challenge, I can go on for a bit. Oh and my personal favorite excuse that people use: doing it with "the best intentions." None of these things that I mentioned would definitively make someone stop being a good person. In fact, I imagine that you probably know a good person in real life with at least one of these qualities. Note: none of these are canon reasons (afaik), they are just things I came up with that could be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted October 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 All true, but we have here a case of 16 people with very different values, personalities, and species, all coming together to do something. There must have been a pretty good reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 10/6/2016 at 7:07 PM, Figberts said: All true, but we have here a case of 16 people with very different values, personalities, and species, all coming together to do something. There must have been a pretty good reason for that. Actually 18, since we know Hoid and Frost were also involved in the conspiracy, which makes it even more complicated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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