Seeker861 Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 By now most if not all of us know that Vasher is on Roshar. Presumably he is there because Stormlight can fuel his Returned body, but he probably can't Awaken with it. I have an idea as to how he could hack Stormlight and use it to Awaken. I think that if he had a Soulcaster instead of convincing an object to change its composition that he could convince it to become animated. I believe this would only work for Vasher as he is very knowledgeable about Investiture and Awakening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 There are other Topic about and in the end we don't know how this may be possible. We know that Vasher didn't understand yet how to use Stormlight to Awaken. For example, I think you can technically Awaken with Stormlight like you did with Breath...But the Stormlight doesn't stick on the subject and the Awakening will last some seconds because the Stormlight will leak away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Just a couple of WoB that are relevant to this topic: Quote Interview: Jan 21st, 2015 Changing Hands, AZ ZenBossanova Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things? Brandon Sanderson No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to awaken things. Tags Vasher, stormlight, awakening, Quote Interview: Feb 20th, 2015 Chicago Argent Awakening and Surgebinding, Stormlight and Breath seem really similar in some aspects-- Brandon Sanderson Yes. Argent --except Breaths seem to stick to things better-- Brandon Sanderson They do. Argent --than Stormlight. So when you are holding the Breath it doesn’t expire when you put it in something it doesn’t go away. Can you tell me something about why that’s happening? Brandon Sanderson Part of this is kind of inherent to the Shard and the power it’s coming from. I mean the power of Endowment is just going to stick, that’s part of the nature of its magic. Does that make sense? But it also kind of has to do with how the ecosystems are working. For instance the Stormlight is essential to the ecosystem of Roshar, it needs to be expended, it needs to get out and-- It’s like evaporation, does that make sense? Argent Recycling? Not the recycling but the cycle of-- Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yeah like the cycle of water. And so just part of the way the nature of it works, it /has/ to get out, it /has/ to leak out, it has to run out. I mean it leaks even from spheres, right? Argent And when you lash things it’s temporary-- Brandon Sanderson Yep. And even though Szeth says that he thought Voidbringers could hold it they can’t. Like it is just not the way that it works. Argent Can they just hold it better? Brandon Sanderson They can hold it better. It’s not permanent. Now there are things that can do it permanently but-- Argent Like the black sphere for example? Brandon Sanderson Well we are not going to...The black sphere is something different. You guys have guessed what the black sphere is, right? Argent Well we have some ideas. I support that it holds an Unmade. Am I wrong? Brandon Sanderson I’m not going to answer that. Argent But you said-- Brandon Sanderson I’m just curious what the theories are. Book 3 the black sphere is-- Everyone who reads the books will know what the black sphere is by the end of Book 3. Argent I can live with that. Tags Awakening, surgebinding, investiture, Endowment, @Argent thanks for always asking excellent questions man, it really is appreciated. Anyways, I've recently been playing around with the idea that Vasher trying to power Awakening with Stormlight is fundamentally flawed. As Argent mentioned in his WoB, Stormlight just doesn't "stick" the way that Breath does which fundamentally undermines Awakening. While each is obviously just investiture the form it has taken just isn't right for the application. I almost see it like water in different forms, for the sake of the metaphor Awakening needs liquid water and Stormlight is water vapor. Edited October 5, 2016 by Iron Eyes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 @Iron Eyes I completely missed the last WoB....Thanks to post it here. It really spicy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 30 minutes ago, Iron Eyes said: @Argent thanks for always asking excellent questions man, it really is appreciated. Anyways, I've recently been playing around with the idea that Vasher trying to power Awakening with Stormlight is fundamentally flawed. As Argent mentioned in his WoB, Stormlight just doesn't "stick" the way that Breath does which fundamentally undermines Awakening. While each is obviously just investiture the form it has taken just isn't right for the application. I almost see it like water in different forms, for the sake of the metaphor Awakening needs liquid water and Stormlight is water vapor. It's becoming more difficult to get good answers though =\ I think it always is, in the months between major book releases. Anyway. it sound like you are completely discarding the possibility of using Stormlight to Awaken, and if that's the case then I disagree with you. I will allow that's more difficult, maybe much more difficult, but if we are basing our theories on my chat up there, then I think the logical step is to say "yes, people can Awaken with Stormlight, but the Awakened objects will run out of Stormlight quickly, similarly to how Lashings run out of it quickly." Stormlight is not as sticky as Breath is, but it does stick to things. Consequently, I think accounting for the quirks of the Investiture being used might help too. On Nalthis, Awakening human-shaped objects is easier, likely because Breath has an affinity for humans (it's how this particular form of Investiture enters, or manifests in, the Physical Realm, after all). It's why Lifeless only take a single Breath to make. I think that had Vasher tried to awaken something made of gems using Stormlight, he might've succeeded (or at least made better progress). Of course gems by themselves are pretty useless when Awakened, no flexibility, but maybe a necklace with as little string and metal as possible... Maybe that would've worked. Maybe I'll poke Brandon on Reddit about this, if he continues being active in the Oathbringer thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Argent said: It's becoming more difficult to get good answers though =\ I think it always is, in the months between major book releases. Anyway. it sound like you are completely discarding the possibility of using Stormlight to Awaken, and if that's the case then I disagree with you. I will allow that's more difficult, maybe much more difficult, but if we are basing our theories on my chat up there, then I think the logical step is to say "yes, people can Awaken with Stormlight, but the Awakened objects will run out of Stormlight quickly, similarly to how Lashings run out of it quickly." Stormlight is not as sticky as Breath is, but it does stick to things. Consequently, I think accounting for the quirks of the Investiture being used might help too. On Nalthis, Awakening human-shaped objects is easier, likely because Breath has an affinity for humans (it's how this particular form of Investiture enters, or manifests in, the Physical Realm, after all). It's why Lifeless only take a single Breath to make. I think that had Vasher tried to awaken something made of gems using Stormlight, he might've succeeded (or at least made better progress). Of course gems by themselves are pretty useless when Awakened, no flexibility, but maybe a necklace with as little string and metal as possible... Maybe that would've worked. Maybe I'll poke Brandon on Reddit about this, if he continues being active in the Oathbringer thread. I suppose I should have been clearer, I wouldn't go so far as to say I am discarding the possibility. I'd actually argue with reasonable certainly that it is indeed possible, just not practical. The real world equivalent I was thinking of was how we could use a particle accelerator to turn iron into gold. It can be done but it is so impractical it might as well not be done. With that said, I do like your idea with the Gemstones, I think there may indeed be something there. If you are going to reach out to Brandon on Reddit maybe try to find out if Vasher can hold Stormlight (other than just consume the Investiture), I highly doubt we'd get anything but RAFO on this question, but if he can, then that would be a nice starting point on figuring out the Stomlight fueled Awakening process.@Yata, no problem, glad to help. Although, as I mentioned above, @Argent is really the one you should be praising. Edited October 5, 2016 by Iron Eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I'm thinking maybe you could interlace or wrap stormlight in breath, to "contain" the stormlight within it. Probably not possible if they act kind of like gases. Or maybe you could use Connection shenanigans, and trick the stormlight into behaving like breath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Other relevant WoB's to this conversation. Here, and Here Quote Could Breath be used to power Surgebinding and what would happen to the Breath. Brandon Sanderson Theoretically yes, it can be done, and the Breath would be consumed just the same as stormlight. Quote If you used Stormlight to Awaken, would you drain color or create frost? Brandon Sanderson You'll have to see if this happens in the future! (Note that mixing the investitures is usually not easy to do.) He has stated that you can go from Breath to Surgebinding, and has said "wait and see" if you can go from Stormlight to Awakening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djarskublar he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Eki said: I'm thinking maybe you could interlace or wrap stormlight in breath, to "contain" the stormlight within it. Probably not possible if they act kind of like gases. Or maybe you could use Connection shenanigans, and trick the stormlight into behaving like breath... That Connection idea is interesting. I would actually be more interested in surgebinding with Breaths, though. Making your bindings stick for a very long time sounds incredibly useful. Like the object that permanently has not friction on it. Or an object that permanently is in zero-g. And with what @The One Who Connects quoted, how fast would the Breath drain from a surgebound object? The thing about surgebinding is that it uses Stormlight, so it doesn't stick, but a Breath should. Would it still consume a Breath pretty fast like a Returned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, Djarskublar said: how fast would the Breath drain from a surgebound object? The thing about surgebinding is that it uses Stormlight, so it doesn't stick, but a Breath should. Would it still consume a Breath pretty fast like a Returned? Awakened objects will eventually consume the Breaths they were given. (Brandon has avoided our free energy ideas for too long ) IIRC, normal awakened objects would act like an old clock and "wind down" as time goes on. I cannot find the source of that quote at the moment though. I imagine that it would function similarly in Surgebinding, but that'd only be on something like Lashings and Lightweaving, I doubt the Dustbringer abilities operate on an "infusing stuff" principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I dunno... Stormlight is one of the most plentiful sources of Investiture that we know of, I think. Breaths are really, really rare, because you actually have to make a whole human just to create one. If you could use Stormlight (or something else) instead, that could potentially be revolutionary. Imagine if someone managed to trick stormlight into working like held breaths - it would be relatively easy and cheap for any worldhopper to stop aging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djarskublar he/him Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 minute ago, The One Who Connects said: Awakened objects will eventually consume the Breaths they were given. (Brandon has avoided our free energy ideas for too long ) IIRC, normal awakened objects would act like an old clock and "wind down" as time goes on. I cannot find the source of that quote at the moment though. I imagine that it would function similarly in Surgebinding, but that'd only be on something like Lashings and Lightweaving, I doubt the Dustbringer abilities operate on an "infusing stuff" principle. Oh, I know that awakened objects eventually wind down, but it takes a long time. Long enough that people on Nalthis probably don't know much about how long it takes. I am just excited to see the implications of awakened machinery once they hit an industrial revolution. Those will run down eventually too. I was talking about timelines for a surgebound Breath. It may be consumed faster since it isn't used as intended by the original manufacturer. It may be consumed faster because surgebinding is more power intense (no way to easily tell on that count). It may be consumed faster because of people thinking that surgebindings just don't last as long. There may be that sort of cognitive effect on how long it lasts, who knows. If I was from Nalthis, I would start a dictatorship that required all citizens to give me their Breath so that I can be a god king. Screw two to four a week like Susebron gets, just give it to me as soon as you are old enough to visualize and vocalize the Command. If it was a large enough domain, we could find out if there are more Heightenings! All in the name of research, amiright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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