Anticipated Orders (Orders you are interested in)

[Xaklys he/him]

I have been thinking about this myself a lot lately so I wanna see what everyone else thinks.  What are the Orders that everyone is most interested in, likes, or anticipates learning about the most?

Feel free to discuss why and even bring up more than one if you'd like!  

1. Windrunners

2. Skybreakers

3. Dustbringers

4. Edgedancers

5. Truthwatchers

6. Lightweavers

7. Elsecallers

8. Willshapers

9. Stonewards

10. Bondsmiths

 

I am personally very interested in the Stonewards the more I looking into all the theories surrounding stones, the Shin Stone Shamans, Talenel'Elin, the Ancient of Stones, the Thunderclasts, Stones Unhallowed, etc.  I even saw that Brandon had signed someone's book with a rough conceptualization of an untold ideal which was, "I will stand when others fall."  That sounds very Stoneward-esque to me considering that they were supposed to be as steadfast as Taln, as well as their focus on strength.  I also believe they are the one Order that did not betray their spren during the Recreance.  Let me know what you all think!

[StormyQueen she/her]

I'm really interested in seeing the more traditional Edgedancer develop, as Lift doesn't seem to completley fit what little we've been told about what they were like. I really like their second ideal of 'I will remember those who have been forgotten', as it kind of reminds me of history (which I'm really into) and I would be interested to see what their other ideals are. But then again, I'm interested in what all of the ideals are, they just all sound so cool and signify so many moral differences and goals. Plus, then I can better figure out what order I'd fit into....

Also, the Elsecallers seem really interesting, as they appear to interact the most with Shadesmar, and I think it would be cool to see how humans and spren who aren't bonded interact. Plus, they have Jasnah, and as a character she interests me (just a bit of an understatement), so I think that the traits involved in the Elsecallers will be interesting to me. 

[Tariniel he/him]

Dustbringers! I'm just really excited to see the cultural dynamics of this order. I find it hilarious how they prefer to be called Releasers because of "Dustbringer's" similarity to Voidbringer. Even more funny is the fact that they will likely have red eyes, and their property is fire, further emphasizing this comparison. 

I am really interested in the Stonewards as well, @Xaklys, if only to help clear up the whole Taln background. As for the "one Order that did not betray their spren during the Recreance," the Skywards seem to be the most likely candidates, to me. They are all about sticking to duty no matter what. I'm curious as to where it says there was one order that didn't betray their oaths, though. I wasn't aware of that.

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, Tariniel said:

I am really interested in the Stonewards as well, @Xaklys, if only to help clear up the whole Taln background. As for the "one Order that did not betray their spren during the Recreance," the Skywards seem to be the most likely candidates, to me. They are all about sticking to duty no matter what. I'm curious as to where it says there was one order that didn't betray their oaths, though. I wasn't aware of that.

Skybreakers or Stonewards? Skywards isn't an order. 

One didn't betray according to an epigraph in WoR. 

Quote

"This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at the time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine."

-WoR Chapter 38

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Jaconis]

Well, assuming the feverstone keep vision is the Recreance, like Dalinar guesses, the Stonewards definitely seem to have broken their oaths, again with the assumption that giving up the shards was the moment of oath breaking. I suppose that could all be a red herring, but it seems like pretty reasonable assumptions all around.  

I think, like was said before, the Skybreakers are the ones who didn't break their oaths. Several things hint at this:

1. Their patron herald is still alive and active. 

2. We know of an existing, still active organization for which said patron is still recruiting. 

3. Their oaths would likely suggest that law and rules go above all else, like compassion, logic, or empathy. In other words, even if it turns out that the Radiants' very existence somehow helps Odium, they would continue, because that's what the laws/rules say. They don't care about what's morally right; they care that the law is followed, whether that law is moral or immoral. 

4. In the epilogue, Jasnah mentions that she learned much from the Highspren. I forget where I saw they were the spren of the skybreakers, or maybe I didn't see it anywhere and just assumed it. If they are, then that is further proof to me that the Skybreakers didn't break their oaths, as they would still have knowledge of that time given that there was no mass killing of those that had experienced a bond. 

Back to the original question, the ones I'm most interested in seeing, in no particular order (ha), are stonewards, willshapers, and dustbringers. That being said, I wasn't all that interested in Lightweavers before WoR came out, but then the parts where we learn the details and intricacies of that order are some of my favorite moments of the book. I now have confidence that I'll enjoy any and all information we learn on the way the orders operate, logistically, emotionally, magically, or in any other way. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Jaconis

[Tariniel he/him]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Skybreakers or Stonewards? Skywards isn't an order.

Yup, typo. Thanks for the paragraph, by the way. I really need to go back and scout out those WoR epigraphs...

[Eki]

1 hour ago, Jaconis said:

1. Their patron herald is still alive and active. 

We know of at least one other Herald who is also active (Ash), and we have suspicions about others as well.

[1stBondsmith he/him]

Hard to believe, but Bondsmiths carry  my vote. We have no clue what they do. What do they bond? Can they unbond? What powers do they bring; and if they can unbind, are they the Administration of the KR? Why would a mortal without powers be afraid of a Bondsmith? 

Too Many Secrets!

[maxal she/her]

10 hours ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

I'm really interested in seeing the more traditional Edgedancer develop, as Lift doesn't seem to completley fit what little we've been told about what they were like. I really like their second ideal of 'I will remember those who have been forgotten', as it kind of reminds me of history (which I'm really into) and I would be interested to see what their other ideals are. But then again, I'm interested in what all of the ideals are, they just all sound so cool and signify so many moral differences and goals. Plus, then I can better figure out what order I'd fit into....

I second. Lift isn't a traditional enough KR to truly be interesting, especially since she wasn't chosen by her spren, but given a Nahel bond as a pet project from the Nightwatcher. Edgedancers also have one of my favorite combo of powers which are adhesion and progression: I love speed and healing powers. Lift however isn't a knowledgeable character, she doesn't care about what she is doing or why which makes her less interesting than another character who'd most likely think a bit much more. She also has very little agency, being a little child, which gives her little impact over events.

So I'd love a second Edgedancer, a more traditional one.

Dustbringers have also always sound interesting. My new pet theory is Dustbringers were all members of "other orders" who distinguished themselves or did "something" to end up as Dustbringers. In other words, there are no Dustbringer sprens and only known Radiants can morph into one. I mean, we have been told the order was different and we do not have a known flashback character for this order or even a main protagonist, so huh... I made up this theory 

[Eki]

25 minutes ago, maxal said:

but given a Nahel bond as a pet project from the Nightwatcher

Is this really true? Wyndle says it was a decision made by some kind of council of spren, the Ring, but they used the fact that the Nightwatcher had granted her a blessing as an argument. As far as we know, this could be how most Knights are chosen - Kaladin might be a rare exception. After all, we know the Stormfather never wanted Syl to bond with him. I'm guessing it comes down to the order - some spren tend to choose by themselves, but others are decided by council.

[maxal she/her]

7 minutes ago, Eki said:

Is this really true? Wyndle says it was a decision made by some kind of council of spren, the Ring, but they used the fact that the Nightwatcher had granted her a blessing as an argument. As far as we know, this could be how most Knights are chosen - Kaladin might be a rare exception. After all, we know the Stormfather never wanted Syl to bond with him. I'm guessing it comes down to the order - some spren tend to choose by themselves, but others are decided by council.

It may be you are right, we know so little, but as far as we can tell, Lift isn't the most traditional knight. She asked for something unusual and she received an unusual boon/curse together with a Nahel bond... Wyndle made it rather clear he would have preferred someone older, not a child.

As far as I can tell, the Stormfather didn't want Syl or any other Honorspren to bond anyone, not just Kaladin. He forbids "his" to come on Roshar in order to form new Nahel bonds. 

There are also no clues whatsoever as to how Jasnah/Shallan/Renarin were chosen, but based on the fact Brandon said many sprens were gravitating around the Kholins seem to indicate the bonding was made on an individual decision.

In any advent, even if I am wrong about this, I'd love to read about another Edgedancer, one whom is not a child. Too many of our Radiants were chosen as teenagers or children: I'd love to see an adult being chosen, someone a bit more aware of what is happening. Also, Lift makes me think too much of Wayne right now... I hope the novella will solve this impression.

[Xaklys he/him]

11 hours ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

Also, the Elsecallers seem really interesting, as they appear to interact the most with Shadesmar, and I think it would be cool to see how humans and spren who aren't bonded interact. Plus, they have Jasnah, and as a character she interests me (just a bit of an understatement), so I think that the traits involved in the Elsecallers will be interesting to me. 

Elsecallers are probably my number two for the Order I want to see more of.  They are the liaisons of the Physical Realm to the spren... that's incredible.  Jasnah has already conferred with them on some level because she came out of the junction at the end of Words of Radiance with updated knowledge about the Almighty and the state of Roshar as far as the Desolation coming.  Besides, other than Shallan, Jasnah is my girl.  I did not expect to have liked her as much as I did until she came out of the junction, I was pretty glad that she had survived.

[Eki]

2 minutes ago, maxal said:

She asked for something unusual and she received an unusual boon/curse together with a Nahel bond...

Again, do we know this is how it happened? I haven't read the excerpts from Edgedancer, but I get the feeling that the bond happened a while after she had already gone to the Old Magic, not at the same time... The Ring said "She has visited the Old Magic" (or something like that), past tense.

3 minutes ago, maxal said:

There are also no clues whatsoever as to how Jasnah/Shallan/Renarin were chosen, but based on the fact Brandon said many sprens were gravitating around the Kholins seem to indicate the bonding was made on an individual decision.

I feel like this indicates that the choices were tactical and based on study (at least Jasnah and Renarin, since Shallan began her bond long ago). To me, that sounds more like a decision made by council rather than individuals. We also have reason to believe that Elhokar has been watched by a group of spren. That feels like research.

I have a feeling Pattern spoke about how he came to bond Shallan... I don't have an e-book, so I can't really try to look it up.

I would also like to see other kinds of Knights (and other kinds of Edgedancers specifically!). That's one reason why I'm sad about Ym's passing. He would have been a very different Knight.

[maxal she/her]

21 minutes ago, Eki said:

Again, do we know this is how it happened? I haven't read the excerpts from Edgedancer, but I get the feeling that the bond happened a while after she had already gone to the Old Magic, not at the same time... The Ring said "She has visited the Old Magic" (or something like that), past tense.

This one was actually in a WoB, it was one of the answer on the latest AMA on Reddit. I'll try to fish it out later tonight. The bond might have happened at a later time, but it seems highly likely to me it is entirely link to the boon she asked. The Nightwatcher liked her, so she asked Wyndle to bond her.

23 minutes ago, Eki said:

I feel like this indicates that the choices were tactical and based on study (at least Jasnah and Renarin, since Shallan began her bond long ago). To me, that sounds more like a decision made by council rather than individuals. We also have reason to believe that Elhokar has been watched by a group of spren. That feels like research.

I have a feeling Pattern spoke about how he came to bond Shallan... I don't have an e-book, so I can't really try to look it up.

I would also like to see other kinds of Knights (and other kinds of Edgedancers specifically!). That's one reason why I'm sad about Ym's passing. He would have been a very different Knight.

I believe (I may recall wrong, so I apologize if this is the case) Brandon said sprens were attracted to power centers, to individuals being at the centers of important events, well most of them, not all of them, but significantly enough of them for the whole Kholin family to have been chosen. Nothing is ever said about a council except for Lift.

Pattern said he was attracted to Shallan due to her ability to craft strong lies: he never said anything about a council chosen her for him. He said the council agreed he shall be the guinea pig, but as far as we know, they didn't impose the choice of Shallan.

Ym was interesting, but he didn't have a long enough presence for me to feel truly sorry about his death. I am more interested in knowing why his order is such a secret the author keeps to himself... why is it relevant?

[Rasarr she/her]

I have to say, I would like to see a Skybreaker who would develop without Nale breathing down his neck. So far, our view of the Skybreakers has been pretty negative, really - Syl dismisses them as being sticklers to law, Nale acts like a misprogrammed robot, and our only Skybreaker candidate at the moment, Szeth, is pretty much a serial killer on a leash. The Skybreaker mentality as presented to far seems to lends itself well to acting like a "bad cop" to Windrunners' "good cop", so I would like to see what a "proper" Skybreaker would look and act like, and what kind of moral quandaries they'd have to face and resolve to stay on their path.

Also, I just know that with Division and Gravitation, Skybreakers would be the best at superhero landing. 

[Spoolofwhool]

17 minutes ago, maxal said:

This one was actually in a WoB, it was one of the answer on the latest AMA on Reddit. I'll try to fish it out later tonight. The bond might have happened at a later time, but it seems highly likely to me it is entirely link to the boon she asked. The Nightwatcher liked her, so she asked Wyndle to bond her.

No WoB on Theoryland seem to be indicative of the Nahel Bond being linked to the Boon/Curse of Nightwatcher so if you could find the WoB on reddit, As far as I'm aware, the only relation between Lift gaining a nahel bond and her boon/curse is the fact that the committee of spren managing Wyndle chose her because of her Old Magic.

[marianmi]

Lift: she visited the Nightwatcher and was given a boon and a curse. I don't think everyone that searches the Old Magic actually gets to the Nightwatcher, so Lift being one "chosen" for this made the spren send Wyndle to her. So it was not the Nightwatcher who chose her for KR, but the spren council.

Shallan: my understanding is that Pattern was attracted to her, the the Cryptics allowed Pattern to bond her.

Syl: she left the Cognitive against the wishes of the Stormfather, without anyone chosen for a bond. So she was kind of lucky to have found Kaladin.

 

So we have a "i choose whoever i want", a "i choose someone but it has to be approved by a council", and a "i was sent to someone chosen by the council". My impression is that the more "cultivation" is in a spren, the more organized they are, and the more aligned to honor, the more independent.

 

Oh, and I can't wait to see some Dustbringers!

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

17 hours ago, Rasarr said:

I have to say, I would like to see a Skybreaker who would develop without Nale breathing down his neck. So far, our view of the Skybreakers has been pretty negative, really - Syl dismisses them as being sticklers to law, Nale acts like a misprogrammed robot, and our only Skybreaker candidate at the moment, Szeth, is pretty much a serial killer on a leash. The Skybreaker mentality as presented to far seems to lends itself well to acting like a "bad cop" to Windrunners' "good cop", so I would like to see what a "proper" Skybreaker would look and act like, and what kind of moral quandaries they'd have to face and resolve to stay on their path.

Helaran sought out the Skybreakers, so look to him maybe? Seemed like a decent guy from the three pages he was in. 

[Quiver he/him]

You know... I'm actually hoping we get a good Skybreaker at some point. Right now, Naln is an antagonist, and Szeth has a...shall we say chequered past?

I'd be really interested in seeing a Lawful character presented in a positive light; right now, the implication is that Skybreaker don't care for anything that doesn't exist within the legal framework. I'd love to see the reverse of that; someone who is compassionate, kind, who still holds the morals and values of the Skybreaker order.

[Turbonator]

I'm interested in the Willshapers, both due to their powers, and because they kind of remind me of Wit for some reason (possibly by being erratic).

Edited October 8, 2016 by Turbonator

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

7 hours ago, Quiver said:

You know... I'm actually hoping we get a good Skybreaker at some point. Right now, Naln is an antagonist, and Szeth has a...shall we say chequered past?

I'd be really interested in seeing a Lawful character presented in a positive light; right now, the implication is that Skybreaker don't care for anything that doesn't exist within the legal framework. I'd love to see the reverse of that; someone who is compassionate, kind, who still holds the morals and values of the Skybreaker order.

Definitely. I imagine that a good Skybreaker would be the type of person to dispense justice without caring about things like eye color or nahn/dahn. Also, imagine if there were a hundred Kaladins running around in the orders. Their police skills would be needed to prevent them from constantly breaking rules and causing chaos. I actually have a theory that one of the Skybreaker's ideals is I will respect the laws of other countries when they contradict my home laws or something similar to prevent situations like Szeth murdering people and justifying it with the Shin laws.

Is anyone else curious about where the Truthwatcher's future vision comes form?

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I actually have a theory that one of the Skybreaker's ideals is I will respect the laws of other countries when they contradict my home laws or something similar to prevent situations like Szeth murdering people and justifying it with the Shin laws.

I wouldn't be surprised. After all, this is what Nale was doing.

[Rasarr she/her]

17 hours ago, Quiver said:

You know... I'm actually hoping we get a good Skybreaker at some point. Right now, Naln is an antagonist, and Szeth has a...shall we say chequered past?

I'd be really interested in seeing a Lawful character presented in a positive light; right now, the implication is that Skybreaker don't care for anything that doesn't exist within the legal framework. I'd love to see the reverse of that; someone who is compassionate, kind, who still holds the morals and values of the Skybreaker order.

You and me both. And there are pretty few "good guy" Lawful characters in fantasy - most are more of "cool rebel" kind of people - so that would be something of a breath of fresh air.

9 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I actually have a theory that one of the Skybreaker's ideals is I will respect the laws of other countries when they contradict my home laws or something similar to prevent situations like Szeth murdering people and justifying it with the Shin laws.

I was thinking about something more along the lines of "I will consider circumstances of the crime, not just the crime itself" to keep Skybreakers from becoming mindless police robots, but this is also a good idea. Upvote!

[goody153]

I'm very interested with the Skybreakers, partly because they are the destructive version of Windrunners(they act as enforcers so it's kinda obvious plus they have the absolutely mobility surge of gravitation and surge of division(dustbringers surge) which i assume is destructive), partly also because they are in a weird state as their head herald is still there but may or may not be crazy. Also the guy who's supposedly gonna represent the story of the skybreakers has storming Nightblood.

BondSmiths come 2nd for they are bonded with godsprens (it's gonna be so fun to read Dalinar talking with the stormfather casually and see how far would the stormfather help him .. it's kinda like watching Vin and Ruin's interaction all over again except they aren't enemies).  I would also be interested how they balance their radiant life between political stuff, leading the radiants and being a KR that fights.

Edited October 9, 2016 by goody153

[maxal she/her]

I agree with everyone's sentient on the need to meet a real good lawful Skybreaker in order to break our current preconception. I however feel this character cannot be Szeth because Szeth is carrying a rather negative baggage.

I also believe the negative sentient against the Skybreaker mostly issues from Kaladin and the fact Windrunners appear to have been at odds with them. Seeing how little respect Kaladin has for written laws, I can understand why. I would love to see the viewpoint of a nice sympathetic Skybreaker (so not Szeth) onto the Windrunners: does he see them as a bunch of fools having no respect for the establish order? I'd be interesting. Just as I am very curious to read about the new Windrunner... Is it just Kaladin who is so rebellious or is it an order trait?

As for Trutwatchers, I do not like using visions as plot devices so while I am curious about them, I am also worried. They better have a purpose other than merely steering the action in a given direction because it is convenient to have visions tell your characters what to do.