No Shardplate for Kaladin

[bdoble97]

I don't know if this has been talked about before. But does anyone else think that Kaladin will never have shardplate. I am unsure if all KR have shardplate but to me Kaladin even if it us a talentyou learn to creat you're own shardplate I just can't see Kalidian wearing any. The only way I could see this happen is if Syl makes him. I can see him in the rest of the books just using his stormligjt and shardspear. 

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

Idk. I can see him wearing it. I dont really see any reason for him to not wear it. Just like he uses Syl as his shardspear/blade even though he has refused to use one in the past, he would see the advantages it would offer him in battle. Cant exactly remember the reasons he gave for declining Adolins offer of Plate, but seeing as his Plate would be wholly his own,comprised of(as the theory goes) windspren(and possibly other spren as well),  then he should have no problem wearing it. I mean, its not like it will effect his stormlight or lashings like it did Szeth. But it would be interesting if he did decide to not wear it for some reason.

Edited October 8, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler
Spelling

[bdoble97]

22 minutes ago, The Ninja Yodeler said:

Idk. I can see him wearing it. I dont really see any reason for him to not wear it. Just like he uses Syl as his shardspear/blade even though he has refused to use one in the past, he would see the advantages it would offer him in battle. Cant exactly remember the reasons he gave for declining Adolins offer of Plate, but seeing as his Plate would be wholly his own,comprised of(as the theory goes) windspren(and possibly other spren as well),  then he should have no problem wearing it. I mean, its not like it will effect his stormlight or lashings like it did Szeth. But it would be interesting if he did decide to not wear it for some reason.

He did use Shallan shardblade when they were in the chasm. But for soem reason I just dont see him ever using shardplat

[Sarevok]

Why not shard-leather armor?

[marianmi]

 

shardplate is a requirement in fighting voidbringers. he'll use one, and Syl will have a hand in creating it.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

He will probably have a new, spren-made one. Maybe even in the next book?

[marianmi]

19 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

He will probably have a new, spren-made one. Maybe even in the next book?

yes probably. if you meant that he won't use one of the "old" plates, of course he won't

[manukos he/him]

i dont know in Dalinar's visions all of the wind runners had shardplate 

also Kaladin is a pragmatic man i dont think that given the chance he would decline  a plate the only protection against szeth 

as for the shard-leather : plate isnt created by the spren like a shardblade , Brandon has verified thet much 
the leading theory is that shardplate is formed by the lesser non sentient spren 
the early stages can be viewed when Kaladin is fighting "he draws wind spren flying around him" and salan's art drawing creation spren

so i think that  shadplate unlike shardblades cant be altered to fit the users preferations

Edited October 8, 2016 by harambe
forgot smt

[StormyQueen she/her]

1 hour ago, harambe said:

i dont know in Dalinar's visions all of the wind runners had shardplate 

also Kaladin is a pragmatic man i dont think that given the chance he would decline  a plate the only protection against szeth 

as for the shard-leather : plate isnt created by the spren like a shardblade , Brandon has verified thet much 
the leading theory is that shardplate is formed by the lesser non sentient spren 
the early stages can be viewed when Kaladin is fighting "he draws wind spren flying around him" and salan's art drawing creation spren

so i think that  shadplate unlike shardblades cant be altered to fit the users preferations

Did we get a WoB about creating shardplate? He's RAFO'd the question about the relation between spren and shardplate a lot in the past. I thought it was just a widely accepted theory. Unless I just totally missed something...

Also, what makes you say that shardplate won't be able to fit the users preferances? Just because it is a different type of spren, doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be changed. I really see no reason to not think that shardplate cannot be altered, and if it were made up of spren, I should think that it would actually be easier to change, given that they have a degree of sentience.

[Spoolofwhool]

So I did a quick dig on Theoryland for shard plate info. First thing I confirmed is that Brandon has RAFOed any questions so about shardplate being formed from spren, though he has confirmed that there is a bond between shardplate and it's wearer, which suggests to me that it probably is going to be spren.

Quote

KIMANIAK

When Kaladin killed the Shardbearer (Helaran) in WoK, Amaram remarked that Amaram knew the Shardbearer was dead because the Shardblade didn’t disapper and because the Shardplate began to fall off of him. Is there some type of “lesser” bond between Shardplate and its wearer?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, yes there is.

[Source]

Secondly, and more distressing, is a WoB that we won't learn how to make shardplate in book 3.

Quote

QUESTION

Will we find out soon where Shardplate comes from?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You will eventually, but it is not the next book

[Source]

The WoB came out last year, so unless Brandon changes his plans, we won't learn until at least book 4. Maybe this means Kaladin won't be using shardplate much after all as @bdoble97 suggested.

[bdoble97]

2 hours ago, harambe said:

i dont know in Dalinar's visions all of the wind runners had shardplate 

also Kaladin is a pragmatic man i dont think that given the chance he would decline  a plate the only protection against szeth 

as for the shard-leather : plate isnt created by the spren like a shardblade , Brandon has verified thet much 
the leading theory is that shardplate is formed by the lesser non sentient spren 
the early stages can be viewed when Kaladin is fighting "he draws wind spren flying around him" and salan's art drawing creation spren

so i think that  shadplate unlike shardblades cant be altered to fit the users preferations

U never thought about the wind spren following him aeound when he was flyingin the sky. That definitely suports the lesser spren theory.

[bdoble97]

47 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

So I did a quick dig on Theoryland for shard plate info. First thing I confirmed is that Brandon has RAFOed any questions so about shardplate being formed from spren, though he has confirmed that there is a bond between shardplate and it's wearer, which suggests to me that it probably is going to be spren.

[Source]

Secondly, and more distressing, is a WoB that we won't learn how to make shardplate in book 3.

[Source]

The WoB came out last year, so unless Brandon changes his plans, we won't learn until at least book 4. Maybe this means Kaladin won't be using shardplate much after all as @bdoble97 suggested.

I just dont think Kaladin would be into wearing shardplate. After what had happen to him and his friends. I think the shadeplate discuss him. 

[StormyQueen she/her]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

So I did a quick dig on Theoryland for shard plate info. First thing I confirmed is that Brandon has RAFOed any questions so about shardplate being formed from spren, though he has confirmed that there is a bond between shardplate and it's wearer, which suggests to me that it probably is going to be spren.

[Source]

Secondly, and more distressing, is a WoB that we won't learn how to make shardplate in book 3.

[Source]

The WoB came out last year, so unless Brandon changes his plans, we won't learn until at least book 4. Maybe this means Kaladin won't be using shardplate much after all as @bdoble97 suggested.

It may not be that he chooses not to use it, but more that he can't use it. My guess is that once you reach a certain point in your naheal bond, you can use shardplate, much like how you had to pass a certain point to use a Shardblade. 

Plus, I would think that in order for Kaladin to choose that he doesn't want to use shardplate, he would be informed that he can have shardplate, as well as how to make it, but he chooses to decline instead. So, you would find out, or at least get an inkling about how it works. So, it may be that the characters simply progress to the point that they can make shardplate in book 4. 

24 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

I just dont think Kaladin would be into wearing shardplate. After what had happen to him and his friends. I think the shadeplate discuss him. 

Yet he has no problem with using his shardspear/blade. If he was going to reject shardplate due to that, he wouldn't be accepting of the shardspear. I think that if he is going to reject it, it will be because of his fighting style (he doesn't really seem to wear armour much, even before become a KR.)

[Spoolofwhool]

17 minutes ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

It may not be that he chooses not to use it, but more that he can't use it. My guess is that once you reach a certain point in your naheal bond, you can use shardplate, much like how you had to pass a certain point to use a Shardblade. 

Plus, I would think that in order for Kaladin to choose that he doesn't want to use shardplate, he would be informed that he can have shardplate, as well as how to make it, but he chooses to decline instead. So, you would find out, or at least get an inkling about how it works. So, it may be that the characters simply progress to the point that they can make shardplate in book 4. 

My point was that because of the WoB we probably won't see any of the KR viewpoint characters reach a point where they'll be able to summon shardplate. I wasn't actually commenting on the actual reasons why we wouldn't see any of them, especially Kaladin, not use it. My last line was just an agreement that Kaladin wouldn't be using shardplate in the near future.

I agree that Kaladin will probably need to reach the next ideal of the Windrunners in order to access shardplate. However, I disagree that he would have to be informed about using it. As we've seen with our KRs, their abilities seem to be usable, on some level, at an instinctive level, without foreknowledge of it happening. Kaladin learned the necessary ideals instinctively (or more likely the knowledge was added to him as a natural result of the Nahel Bond), could use some abilities with knowing he could, and summoned Syl the first time. Shallan too soulcast instinctively. As such, I think then when Kaladin advances the Nahel Bond to the right stage, he could form his shardplate instinctively, if the situation called for it. On the other hand, it is possible that he may just be told about it, and go ahead and do it, but I honestly doubt it.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[StormyQueen she/her]

30 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

My point was that because of the WoB we probably won't see any of the KR viewpoint characters reach a point where they'll be able to summon shardplate. I wasn't actually commenting on the actual reasons why we wouldn't see any of them, especially Kaladin, not use it. My last line was just an agreement that Kaladin wouldn't be using shardplate in the near future.

I agree that Kaladin will probably need to reach the next ideal of the Windrunners in order to access shardplate. However, I disagree that he would have to be informed about using it. As we've seen with our KRs, their abilities seem to be usable, on some level, at an instinctive level, without foreknowledge of it happening. Kaladin learned the necessary ideals instinctively (or more likely the knowledge was added to him as a natural result of the Nahel Bond), could use some abilities with knowing he could, and summoned Syl the first time. Shallan too soulcast instinctively. As such, I think then when Kaladin advances the Nahel Bond to the right stage, he could form his shardplate instinctively, if the situation called for it. On the other hand, it is possible that he may just be told about it, and go ahead and do it, but I honestly doubt it.

However, they usually use their abilities instinctively earlier on in their KR careers, as seen particularly with Shallan, however, as we have progressed through the character arcs, we learn how abilities are formed. With Shallan, she instinctively summoned a Shardblade and didn't know what was going on, as well as how it was happening, however, as we progress through Shallan's character, we were shown how she summoned a Shardblade, and Shallan gained an understanding about how she did it. I think a similar thing will happen with most other abilities as well, such as shardplate and soul casting, it's not so much a question of if, but of when. This is an integral part of the the writing style to me, and I think it ver unlikely that shardplate will simply pop up with no proper explanation on how it works.

It may not be an outright explanation directly on how shardplate is formed, what it does and how it works, but I believe that Kaladin (and other characters who use shardplate) will be able to form a basic understanding on how it works, if only by observation. 

[marianmi]

Kaladin uses a shardBLADE. In his fight vs Szeth, Syl changed between spear, shield and BLADE. I don't think he'll have any issue using plate.

 

[Spoolofwhool]

30 minutes ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

However, they usually use their abilities instinctively earlier on in their KR careers, as seen particularly with Shallan, however, as we have progressed through the character arcs, we learn how abilities are formed. With Shallan, she instinctively summoned a Shardblade and didn't know what was going on, as well as how it was happening, however, as we progress through Shallan's character, we were shown how she summoned a Shardblade, and Shallan gained an understanding about how she did it. I think a similar thing will happen with most other abilities as well, such as shardplate and soul casting, it's not so much a question of if, but of when. This is an integral part of the the writing style to me, and I think it ver unlikely that shardplate will simply pop up with no proper explanation on how it works.

It may not be an outright explanation directly on how shardplate is formed, what it does and how it works, but I believe that Kaladin (and other characters who use shardplate) will be able to form a basic understanding on how it works, if only by observation. 

Yes, they form an understanding of how their powers work, but my point was that initially they seem to be accessing powers by instinct. Kaladin won't be limited by someone not telling him how to summon shardplate as you suggested, or that he can. He will just do it, and once he does, he'll understand how to form it more easily, just like he did with lashings. I'm not saying he will always be instinctively summoning it, I'm saying the first time it will be.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[manukos he/him]

8 hours ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

Did we get a WoB about creating shardplate? He's RAFO'd the question about the relation between spren and shardplate a lot in the past. I thought it was just a widely accepted theory. Unless I just totally missed something...

Also, what makes you say that shardplate won't be able to fit the users preferances? Just because it is a different type of spren, doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be changed. I really see no reason to not think that shardplate cannot be altered, and if it were made up of spren, I should think that it would actually be easier to change, given that they have a degree of sentience.

sry for the delayed reply but ... timezones

well i said that it was oly a theory ,

as for why i belive that the shapr plates wont be very much controled by it's wearer:
ALL of the plates  are humongus pieces of armor with smaler interlocking plates at the joints from this i think  it's safe to assume that the armor part "the part that blocks shards "   is the plates small and big though from Adolin's fights when in some intances his oppoments tryed to hit his joint since they are weeker, propably the bigger the better .
so i can't see how smething lighter would work even if it was possible, if a small plate in the joint can be shatterd with one strike an even thiner plate wouldnt be a good idea .

 but even that was false , every single KR chose to be more bulky rather than smt more flexible  there is propably a reason for that 

 

any way apart from that for the rest of the posts @Spoolofwhool completely mirrores my views 

 

 

[StormyQueen she/her]

1 hour ago, harambe said:

sry for the delayed reply but ... timezones

well i said that it was oly a theory ,

as for why i belive that the shapr plates wont be very much controled by it's wearer:
ALL of the plates  are humongus pieces of armor with smaler interlocking plates at the joints from this i think  it's safe to assume that the armor part "the part that blocks shards "   is the plates small and big though from Adolin's fights when in some intances his oppoments tryed to hit his joint since they are weeker, propably the bigger the better .
so i can't see how smething lighter would work even if it was possible, if a small plate in the joint can be shatterd with one strike an even thiner plate wouldnt be a good idea .

 but even that was false , every single KR chose to be more bulky rather than smt more flexible  there is propably a reason for that 

 

any way apart from that for the rest of the posts @Spoolofwhool completely mirrores my views 

 

 

Ugh, I know! Just...timezones... They can be most frustrating can't they, seriously I'm right near the date line, so most people tend to be sleeping when I come on. Most frustrating. 

Also, when you refer to how all KR chose to use more bulky armour, I assume you are talking about the plate that is being circulated within society. Because if that's the case, then it is not certain that is how it was originally was, because you could have said the same for shardblades, as they were all swords, but that was only the case because that was their original form.

But anyway, who even knows. Only how many more years till we find out? Who even knows. Many. (Not that I'm complaining about how quickly they're being written)

[bdoble97]

12 hours ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

It may not be that he chooses not to use it, but more that he can't use it. My guess is that once you reach a certain point in your naheal bond, you can use shardplate, much like how you had to pass a certain point to use a Shardblade. 

Plus, I would think that in order for Kaladin to choose that he doesn't want to use shardplate, he would be informed that he can have shardplate, as well as how to make it, but he chooses to decline instead. So, you would find out, or at least get an inkling about how it works. So, it may be that the characters simply progress to the point that they can make shardplate in book 4. 

Yet he has no problem with using his shardspear/blade. If he was going to reject shardplate due to that, he wouldn't be accepting of the shardspear. I think that if he is going to reject it, it will be because of his fighting style (he doesn't really seem to wear armour much, even before become a KR.)

Excilent points but the shardspear was Syl. He totally tust Syl and the spear is her. But the shardplate will not be from her. Plus his fighting style total lense it self to no Shardplate. He is nuch more of a martial artist type of fighter.

[StormyQueen she/her]

9 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

Excilent points but the shardspear was Syl. He totally tust Syl and the spear is her. But the shardplate will not be from her. Plus his fighting style total lense it self to no Shardplate. He is nuch more of a martial artist type of fighter.

I think that if Kaladin was going to have an issue with using shardplate/blades that were alive, but weren't Syl, he'd have had though patterns about how he was only going to us Syl, because she was different or because he trusts her. I concede that if shardplate that is alive cannot change, it is highly unlikely that Kaladin will use it due to the nature of his fighting style. But, there is a possibility that shardplate can be altered (which I personally think is likely, but who really knows, right), in which case, I think there will be more of a chance that Kaladin will use the shardplate. 

[marianmi]

Shardplate was not useful to Kaladin when fighting other shardbearers, because it allowed him to be faster, and stormlight would heal him enough when being injured by them. A shield was enough for him.

But when fighting things like thunderclasts, one hit would gravely injure him (yes, he would heal, but slow, and he could be killed while incapacitated), while shardplate would allow him to continue fighting. A shield would not be enough to stop a blow. So i think it depends on the type of fight he has to do: he needs to be fast, and can sustain some injuries (damage from one hit is small enough to be healed fast by stormlight), or he needs protection (damage from one hit could incapacitate him and lead to death).

Edited October 10, 2016 by marianmi

[bdoble97]

23 hours ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

38 minutes ago, marianmi said:

Shardplate was not useful to Kaladin when fighting other shardbearers, because it allowed him to be faster, and stormlight would heal him enough when being injured by them. A shield was enough for him.

But when fighting things like thunderclasts, one hit would gravely injure him (yes, he would heal, but slow, and he could be killed while incapacitated), while shardplate would allow him to continue fighting. A shield would not be enough to stop a blow. So i think it depends on the type of fight he has to do: he needs to be fast, and can sustain some injuries (damage from one hit is small enough to be healed fast by stormlight), or he needs protection (damage from one hit could incapacitate him and lead to death).

I like idea of Kaladin use shardpear and mabey some tpye of shardsheaild. With using stormlight and fughtinf along Adolin I think Kaladin could be lethal even fighting  thunderclasts and eny of the stormforms. I am hoping that Kaladin can form a new way of fighting as a KR

[Elenion he/him]

I think that there's a chance that Kaladin will never use Plate: we've seen Szeth defeat men in plate without carrying Plate himself. But I know that if I was Kaladin, I'd definitely opt for Plate.

[bdoble97]

10 hours ago, Elenion said:

I think that there's a chance that Kaladin will never use Plate: we've seen Szeth defeat men in plate without carrying Plate himself. But I know that if I was Kaladin, I'd definitely opt for Plate.

I myself would definitely use shardplate in sports (hockey, lacrosse)  and i life in general I have always had the tank mind set just gear up and slam into the problem. But for Kaladin he is much more of a skilled fighter and will be lethal force with no Shardplate just a shardpear next to Adolin who can be the tank.