Parshendi Aliens

[bdoble97]

Thia idea kind of goes with the othgates beging able to transport people from different planets. Could the Parshendi people be from a diffrent planet and tbat why they are ao diffrent them the humans. The way they're described they're much more of a aquatic type of species even though they breath oxygen. I believe Brandon Sanderson stated that he went with a much more aquatic Style for the world to stand out and to be different them onther fantasy worlds. O thinl ot would be cool if Shallan is able to find some type of ancient reference of a people  coming from another world.  I don't know I could be completely way off but I ordered to stay at work till 8am and have all kinds of ideas gooing through my head about SA it has truley become my favorite book series 

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

20 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

Thia idea kind of goes with the othgates beging able to transport people from different planets. Could the Parshendi people be from a diffrent planet and tbat why they are ao diffrent them the humans. The way they're described they're much more of a aquatic type of species even though they breath oxygen. I believe Brandon Sanderson stated that he went with a much more aquatic Style for the world to stand out and to be different them onther fantasy worlds. O thinl ot would be cool if Shallan is able to find some type of ancient reference of a people  coming from another world.  I don't know I could be completely way off but I ordered to stay at work till 8am and have all kinds of ideas gooing through my head about SA it has truley become my favorite book series 

Maybe Yolen......

[Spoolofwhool]

Well, humans aren't native to Roshar, so the argument that the Listeners are from another world because they look different from humans falls a bit flat there. In any case, I believe that the Listeners are native to Roshar. Their unique relationship with spren indicates that they have been there awhile, and likely evolved in a spren-filled environment, like much of the other fauna on Roshar. 

[Krandacth]

Yep, a Veristitalian would definitely conclude that Parshendi are the natives and humans are the aliens (or at least that the Parshendi arrived significantly before humans). Citations would include the Vorin creation story (their being cast out of the Tranqueline Halls onto Roshar suggests humans were originally from either another continent, another planet or another plane of existence), and the Listener Song of Spren (in which it is claimed that the spren used to favour the Listeners until humans became available, and are apparently more attractive to spren).

The two combined also suggest that the Tranqueline halls are not another plane of existence, as the only other such plane to be referenced is Shadesmar, in which spren also manifest. Therefore, humans must have initially come from another continent (more similar to Shinovar than the Stormlands) or planet, with Parshendi being already established on Roshar at that point.

[Massik he/him]

@Krandacth

There are 3 planes, or realms- Cognitive (Shadesmar), Physical (Roshar and other worlds- as humans percieve them), and Spiritual.

The Tranquiline Halls are in the spiritual realm, I believe; like Vallhalla.  Losing the Teanquiline halls would be like losing a battle for heaven.  In Vorinism, when a warrior dies, they return to the TH to continue the battle for it.  If it were a physical place, could this be so?

If the TH are in the spiritual realm, this could have very interesting implications. 

Spoiler

Think Vin and Eland as we see them breifly in Secret History.

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by Massik

[RenegadeShroom]

Also, the Listeners fit in more with the other native organisms of Roshar than humans do. Just look at chasmfiends, axehounds, chulls, etc. Brandon's inspiration for Rosharan ecology, if I recall correctly, came from looking at tidepools. If any out of those two are to be considered alien, I think it's humans.

[Krandacth]

7 hours ago, Massik said:

@Krandacth

There are 3 planes- Cognitive (Shadesmar), Physical (Roshar and other worlds), and Spiritual.

The Tranquiline Halls are in the spiritual realm, I believe; like Vallhalla.  Losing the Teanquiline halls would be like losing a battle for heaven. In Vorinism, when a warrior dies, they return to the TH to continue the battle for it.  If it were a physical place, could this be so?

Ah, I forgot that Roshar knows of the spiritual realm too. However, their knowledge also states that everything that exists in one exists in the others, so the point still holds.

Also, that interpretation of the Tranqueline Halls is heavily religious, and contradictory. If it is where people go when they die, but also where they come from originally, then their passage from there should be similarly transformative, e.g. Each persons birth would be their transition from the Tranqueline Halls. However, humanity apparently came from there at some single point in the distant past, as a race of people presumably of all ages, which does not fit with Rosharan knowledge of the SR, however patchy it may be (or with our knowledge of the SR, e.g. What was spoilered above).

Finally, to a Veristitalian (such as Jasnah), Vorinism is not factually accurate but another source of myths that are assumed to have some historic factual root. So the fact that Vorinism claims that all people go back to join the fight for the THs is largely irrelevant (being about the subjective future rather the objective past).

On the other hand, I don't presume to say that there is no basis in fact in the Vorin beliefs regarding the afterlife, which means that the implications regarding the spoilered content are still very interesting. Instead I claim that, whatever the factual basis is for Vorin teachings on the afterlife, it is almost certainly distinct from that of the creation story of humans coming to Roshar from elsewhere.

[Massik he/him]

33 minutes ago, Krandacth said:

Ah, I forgot that Roshar knows of the spiritual realm too. However, their knowledge also states that everything that exists in one exists in the others, so the point still holds.

Also, that interpretation of the Tranqueline Halls is heavily religious, and contradictory. If it is where people go when they die, but also where they come from originally, then their passage from there should be similarly transformative, e.g. Each persons birth would be their transition from the Tranqueline Halls. However, humanity apparently came from there at some single point in the distant past, as a race of people presumably of all ages, which does not fit with Rosharan knowledge of the SR, however patchy it may be (or with our knowledge of the SR, e.g. What was spoilered above).

Finally, to a Veristitalian (such as Jasnah), Vorinism is not factually accurate but another source of myths that are assumed to have some historic factual root. So the fact that Vorinism claims that all people go back to join the fight for the THs is largely irrelevant (being about the subjective future rather the objective past).

On the other hand, I don't presume to say that there is no basis in fact in the Vorin beliefs regarding the afterlife, which means that the implications regarding the spoilered content are still very interesting. Instead I claim that, whatever the factual basis is for Vorin teachings on the afterlife, it is almost certainly distinct from that of the creation story of humans coming to Roshar from elsewhere.

Some factual basis, though.  

Jasnah is, IMO, more against what Vorinism became, as opposed to what it began as. 

At its core, Vorinism believes in the Almighty and the Heralds.  We know the Amighty has given visions to Dalinar and that the Heralds are returning.  So we know there is some truth there.  

As for the birth vs all mankind being moved to Roshar, there is , or course much we (and even Jasnah) don't know yet.  

 

I will concede that there is some contradiction.  The Almighty claims to have created mankind. But Brandon has stated that Humans existed before the shattering, and therefore, before Honor could have created them.  

Unless, of course time manipulation comes into play, or he is speaking strictly as a part of Adonalsium.

The spoiler part, I was thinking on, based on the theory that the true desolation affects all of the Cosmere, and not just Roshar.  If this is true, wouldn't all humans, and not just those from Roshar be in any battle waged to take back the Tranquiline Halls, as it would afffect all of them?

It is quite an iteresting puzzle.

  

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by Massik

[HonorIsDead he/him]

16 minutes ago, Massik said:

 The Almighty claims to have created mankind

Did he ever actually claim to have made mankind, I assumed that was just one of the delusions that their worship of inspired, I don't remember him ever actually claiming he made them.

 

19 minutes ago, Massik said:

, I was thinking on, based on the theory that the true desolation affects all of the Cosmere, and not just Roshar.  If this is true, wouldn't all humans, and not just those from Roshar be in any battle waged to take back the Tranquiline Halls

Very interesting theory, though I expect that our interpretation of the halls isn't right, we have, after all, only heard about the halls from those who are still alive and have evidently never been there.  

[Massik he/him]

5 minutes ago, HonorIsDead said:

Did he ever actually claim to have made mankind, I assumed that was just one of the delusions that their worship of inspired, I don't remember him ever actually claiming he made them.

 

Very interesting theory, though I expect that our interpretation of the halls isn't right, we have, after all, only heard about the halls from those who are still alive and have evidently never been there.  

IIRC, that is from one of the visions he gives Dalinar, and not just some Vorin teaching.  

But of course, there is much we don't know, and I said as much

Edited October 30, 2016 by Massik