The Art of Game Creation

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

28 minutes ago, Straw said:

What about having an anthology game, where each cycle is a single cycle game? That way, you could have multiple different rulesets in one game, which could be a bit interesting.

That sounds like a lot of fun.

Would you try to stitch the cycles together to make an overall game as well?

[Straw he/him]

9 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

That sounds like a lot of fun.

Would you try to stitch the cycles together to make an overall game as well?

There are a lot of options available. The first things that come to mind are the following:

1. Point based game. You gain one point if you win one of the cycle-long games, and at the end of the entire game, the highest scoring player(s) win. Deaths would probably not carry over to the following cycle.

2. Faction based game. You have factions, with the same faction makeup every cycle, but with different rules and roles. Deaths would probably carry over to the next cycle.

3. Meta win condition game: Each player has a win condition that applies to every game, along with the normal rules for that game.

4. Semi-anthology game: Players have the ability to vote for different rules, and possibly for different roles. For example, the eliminator team might vote for a rule that reduces the village's ability to gain information. Deaths would probably carry over to the next cycle.

5. Completely unconnected game: Each cycle is a completely different game, with no connection to any previous game. Deaths would not carry over to the next cycle.

Notes:

-Number four sounds a bit like the shifting rules game Wilson was thinking about creating.

-For one, three, and five, it'd be interesting to have an ability that permanently kills a player. Thematically, it could fit in as a balefire ability in a Wheel of Time game.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

4 hours ago, Straw said:

There are a lot of options available. The first things that come to mind are the following:

1. Point based game. You gain one point if you win one of the cycle-long games, and at the end of the entire game, the highest scoring player(s) win. Deaths would probably not carry over to the following cycle.

2. Faction based game. You have factions, with the same faction makeup every cycle, but with different rules and roles. Deaths would probably carry over to the next cycle.

3. Meta win condition game: Each player has a win condition that applies to every game, along with the normal rules for that game.

4. Semi-anthology game: Players have the ability to vote for different rules, and possibly for different roles. For example, the eliminator team might vote for a rule that reduces the village's ability to gain information. Deaths would probably carry over to the next cycle.

5. Completely unconnected game: Each cycle is a completely different game, with no connection to any previous game. Deaths would not carry over to the next cycle.

Notes:

-Number four sounds a bit like the shifting rules game Wilson was thinking about creating.

-For one, three, and five, it'd be interesting to have an ability that permanently kills a player. Thematically, it could fit in as a balefire ability in a Wheel of Time game.

I like this. I would probably sign up for it if it were run as a thing.

I am also fond of balefire mechanics. Although I never actually read WoT (I probably should); the erasure power in my game was loosely inspired by the web serial Pact.

[I think I am here. he/him]

11 hours ago, Straw said:

There are a lot of options available. The first things that come to mind are the following:

1. Point based game. You gain one point if you win one of the cycle-long games, and at the end of the entire game, the highest scoring player(s) win. Deaths would probably not carry over to the following cycle.

2. Faction based game. You have factions, with the same faction makeup every cycle, but with different rules and roles. Deaths would probably carry over to the next cycle.

3. Meta win condition game: Each player has a win condition that applies to every game, along with the normal rules for that game.

4. Semi-anthology game: Players have the ability to vote for different rules, and possibly for different roles. For example, the eliminator team might vote for a rule that reduces the village's ability to gain information. Deaths would probably carry over to the next cycle.

5. Completely unconnected game: Each cycle is a completely different game, with no connection to any previous game. Deaths would not carry over to the next cycle.

Notes:

-Number four sounds a bit like the shifting rules game Wilson was thinking about creating.

-For one, three, and five, it'd be interesting to have an ability that permanently kills a player. Thematically, it could fit in as a balefire ability in a Wheel of Time game.

Whoa, this is awesome! I would definitely play this. My vote's on #2.

[Kidpen he/him]

14 hours ago, Straw said:

There are a lot of options available. The first things that come to mind are the following:

1. Point based game. You gain one point if you win one of the cycle-long games, and at the end of the entire game, the highest scoring player(s) win. Deaths would probably not carry over to the following cycle.

2. Faction based game. You have factions, with the same faction makeup every cycle, but with different rules and roles. Deaths would probably carry over to the next cycle.

3. Meta win condition game: Each player has a win condition that applies to every game, along with the normal rules for that game.

4. Semi-anthology game: Players have the ability to vote for different rules, and possibly for different roles. For example, the eliminator team might vote for a rule that reduces the village's ability to gain information. Deaths would probably carry over to the next cycle.

5. Completely unconnected game: Each cycle is a completely different game, with no connection to any previous game. Deaths would not carry over to the next cycle.

Notes:

-Number four sounds a bit like the shifting rules game Wilson was thinking about creating.

-For one, three, and five, it'd be interesting to have an ability that permanently kills a player. Thematically, it could fit in as a balefire ability in a Wheel of Time game.

Are we voting? If so, yes I would play this, and my vote is one or two.

[Straw he/him]

If it gets enough interest,  I'll try building a game around it, and possibly running it.

[CadCom he/him]

1 hour ago, Straw said:

If it gets enough interest,  I'll try building a game around it, and possibly running it.

I'm interested. And if you base it on Mistborn, the sample game I created could be one of the cycles. Mine could act as a part of a larger game, or a standalone.

[Straw he/him]

I was thinking about having each cycle be set on a different planet, and having the factions be 17th Shard vs Hoid.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

What if each cycle was a microcosm of some of the shard's past games? You could start with the AG setup and then try to build from there?

[Straw he/him]

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

What if each cycle was a microcosm of some of the shard's past games? You could start with the AG setup and then try to build from there?

Yeah, that's a good idea!

[CadCom he/him]

1 hour ago, Straw said:

I was thinking about having each cycle be set on a different planet, and having the factions be 17th Shard vs Hoid.

I like that. I personally think that the option 1 is the best for that style, then you can mix different styles. It could be like a mini tournament, where each cycle is a new mini game, and players gain points based on their role for that game. 

It might need an extra GM or M or IM to help regulate everything.

Ninja'd

[Straw he/him]

I'm going to try making a ruleset for this game. I'd most likely run it as my next LG.

[CadCom he/him]

I think one thing to remember, is that the typical role distribution may need to be changed, because on a one night, or two night version, in order for elims and villagers to have close to a 50/50 chance of winning, the role distribution may need to change.

 

[Straw he/him]

Just now, Cadmium Compounder said:

I think one thing to remember, is that the typical role distribution may need to be changed, because on a one night, or two night version, in order for elims and villagers to have close to a 50/50 chance of winning, the role distribution may need to change.

I was probably going to go with option #2, so that wouldn't be a problem.

[Kidpen he/him]

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

What if each cycle was a microcosm of some of the shard's past games? You could start with the AG setup and then try to build from there?

I like this. Making it change based on people's choices. Unless I don't know what microcosm means.

 

[Snipexe he/him]

Another potential benefit of single cycle games with over arching gms. You could allow less expierenced players who want to run a game run a single cycle, with help from the overarching gm. If they mess up, they won’t have messed up the entire game, and it is a lot less pressure then running an entire game. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

@Straw your Lightbringer profile pic gave me a random idea (though a non-Sanderson one).

What about a one-night series based on the cycle of nine kings? That is, the era before the Prisms existed.

The power of one particular spectra would wax, and drafters of that color would rule for a time... And then as that color got drafted too much, their power would ebb. Drafters of the next color down the spectrum would grow more powerful and challenge the ruling drafters, killing most of them off and replacing them as rulers.

Village would be drafters/wights of the ruling spectra, elims would be drafters/wights of the challenging spectra. Each 1-night game could have different roles, since each game would feature different types of drafter, and each type of drafting has very different applications.

[Straw he/him]

Miscellaneous Ideas:

-Madman: Each cycle, you can ask the GM one question, and that question will be answered truthfully.

-Alternate Madman: Each cycle, you can submit one question. That question will be put in the dead doc by the GM, and every dead player can submit an answer. At the end of the following cycle, the Alternate Madman receives a list of the submitted answers.

-Seer: You can submit a list of three players, and the name of a target. Your target will be informed that their next action must target one of the three players.

-Voodoo Doll (Role or Item): At the start of the game, choose another player. All actions that are placed on your are redirected to your chosen player.

-Student (Designed for blackout games): Each cycle, you can target a player. If that player uses an ability, you gain the ability to use that ability once. However, you have no idea what the ability does, and only have a one word hint as to what the ability does.

-Necromancer (Possibly single use): Each cycle, you can bring a player back to life. The player will only stay alive for one cycle.

-Time Delayer (Role or item): All actions targeting you are delayed by one cycle.

[Jondesu he/him]

4 hours ago, Straw said:

Voodoo Doll

I had an evil thought. What if you could use this to cause that person to target a specific person with their action, whatever it might be? Talk about chaos...

[CadCom he/him]

12 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I had an evil thought. What if you could use this to cause that person to target a specific person with their action, whatever it might be? Talk about chaos...

I had an insane thought based off of this idea, and your thought. What if, at the beginning of the game, EVERYONE was set up that any action targeting them would be bumped to another random player. everyone would know to whom actions targeting themselves would get bumped. But initially they wouldn't know anyone elses. Essentially, I play with my name, but If I'm voted for, jondesu dies, or if someone tries to scan me, they scan Jondesu. 

GM-ing that would be hard, but I think it would be harder for the players, thus, to make it easier, there would be lots of scan roles, where if I say "I want to scan Jondesu for his role" the answer would come back "Drake Marshall's role is Elim" 

But then there would be utter chaos. Everyone would be throwing out claims like this: "You know, Itiah, If you vote for me, you'd actually be voting for yourself" 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Cadmium Compounder

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

On 7/13/2018 at 7:37 AM, Cadmium Compounder said:

I had an insane thought based off of this idea, and your thought. What if, at the beginning of the game, EVERYONE was set up that any action targeting them would be bumped to another random player. everyone would know to whom actions targeting themselves would get bumped. But initially they wouldn't know anyone elses. Essentially, I play with my name, but If I'm voted for, jondesu dies, or if someone tries to scan me, they scan Jondesu. 

GM-ing that would be hard, but I think it would be harder for the players, thus, to make it easier, there would be lots of scan roles, where if I say "I want to scan Jondesu for his role" the answer would come back "Drake Marshall's role is Elim" 

But then there would be utter chaos. Everyone would be throwing out claims like this: "You know, Itiah, If you vote for me, you'd actually be voting for yourself" 

But then if you voted for someone, you would be able to see who it affected.  And first cycle, someone would propose everyone votes for themself to determine who it affects, and if no one did, there would be no way of reliably lynching someone.  It would work better if it didn't count votes.

EDIT: Imagine this mechanic in a blackout game...  

Edited July 14, 2018 by The Young Pyromancer

[Herowannabe he/him]

Hey everyone, so I just played a game tonight called "Deception, Murder in Hong Kong." It's kind of a mix between werewolves/mafia/SE and Clue with a hint of Codenames. After playing a couple rounds of it I would love  to adapt it to the Cosmere. Has anyone else played it or heard of it? Anyone interested in helping me flesh out rules for the forum and convert everything over to the Cosmere?

If you haven't heard of it, the gist of it is this (sections put into spoiler tags to make it easier to navigate this post, not because of anything spoilery):

General Rules:

Spoiler

 

Everybody is an investigator at a crime scene except for one person: the Forensic Scientist (who also fulfills the role of moderator/GM), and of course, one of the investigators is secretly the murderer. Each player has 4 murder weapon cards (things like knife, noose, bare hands, drowning, explosion, etc.) and 4 evidence cards (various things like fingerprints, pieces of clothing, food, and other random objects) displayed in front of them for all to see. At the start of the game the murderer secretly picks 1 murder weapon and 1 piece of evidence from the cards directly in front of them, and tells them to the Forensic Scientist. 

The Forensic Scientist (FS) is trying to help the investigators win, but can only communicate with them through the use of special scene tiles. Each scene tile is different and covers broad categories with several options for the FS to choose from (For example, one tile that is used in every game is the cause of death, and includes the options:

• Suffocation
• Severe Injury
• Loss of Blood
• Illness/Disease
• Poisoning
• Accident

The FS marks one of the options on each of the scene tiles to give clues for the investigators to decipher. 

The investigators' job is to decipher the clues to figure out the 1. Murderer, 2. Murder Weapon, and 3. Key piece of Evidence. They must guess all 3 correctly in order to catch the murderer and get them convicted at court. Any investigator can make a guess at any time during the game, but each investigator only gets one guess. Once they've made their guess, the FS tells them if they were right or wrong (and nothing else). If they were right, they win (obviously). If they guessed wrong, then the game continues. The investigator(s) who guessed may still participate in the discussion, but may not make any more guesses for the rest of the game. 

The game is played in 3 rounds, and at the end of rounds 1 and 2 the FS may swap out one of the scene tiles for a new one (thus giving them a way to get rid of tiles that are throwing the investigators off track and adding new tiles to give new clues. 

There are a couple other roles and things that can spice up the game, but the description above is enough to give you an idea of how it's played. If you want to learn more, you can check out the BGG description here, or read the official rule book here. 

 

---

I'm posting this here because this game is very similar to SE and would fit well in this section of the forum, but there are some significant differences: 

• First, nobody is ever eliminated or removed from the game, so there wouldn't be any players getting lynched or murdered or gradual whittling down of suspects or any of that.
• Second, the game is designed to be played with up to 12 players (including the FS/moderator). Now, it might be possible to play with more players than that, but for now I say we stick with a cap of 12 players, and then maybe experiment with more players later on.
• Third, the game isn't set up with Roleplaying in mind, but then again, neither is Mafia/werewolves. I don't see any reason why we couldn't incorporate roleplaying into the game like we've done with SE. 
• Fourth, with only 3 rounds, even if we make each round 48 hours long that would give us a 6 day game time, maximum (Upon further thought I think we ought to make it 72hr cycles / 9 day max game time)- possibly shorter than that if the investigators make a lucky guess early in the game. That's significantly shorter than most SE games. If we tried to fit it into the normal formats it would definitely have to be in the QF category, unless we did something like run multiple rounds of it to take up time. Alternatively, we could add it as it's own special format, or even take it to a different part of the site (there are a number of other forum games being played over the in the general section, for example) if it's deemed to be different enough from regular SE to be considered it's own thing. I'll leave it up to the moderators to decide that ( @little wilson @Orlok Tsubodai @Alvron @Seonid), though in the meantime I'm sitting at the top of the QF list and wouldn't mind using that spot to give this format a try, if people want to. 

---

Now, assuming there is interest in trying this, there are a number of things that would need to be done to get it converted to Cosmere and prep it for play on the forums, and I could use some help with that. If you're interested in helping out, read below. 

Things that need to be done to get the game ready to play:

Spoiler

• Switching the names of the roles and things over to Cosmere should be fairly simple. "Murderer" could easily become "Assassin (in White)," for example.
• Mechanics of all the roles could stay the same, at least at the beginning. Maybe further down the line we could try meddling with the roles and mechanics. 
• All of the cards and tiles need to be handled in such a way as to make them usable on forums. We can't exactly shuffle a deck of cards and deal them out to players online, but since everything is public knowledge except for the roles, we should be able to simulate the cards with a spreadsheet and a randomizer function fairly easily. We would just have to populate the spreadsheet and insert the appropriate formulas. 
• All of the cards would need to be converted to Cosmere equivalents. In order to match the quantities included in the real game, we would need at least:
  • 90x Murder Weapon cards (Actually they are called "Means of Murder" cards, since not all of them are weapons). They could be things like shardblade, coins, hemalurgic spike, fed to a chasmfiend, Lifeless soldier, Nightblood, etc. 
  • 200x Evidence cards. These can be just about anything- the real game has random things like lightbulbs, candy, money, playing cards, shoes, etc. Many of those could just be copied over, while some could be converted to and/or replaced with some Cosmere-related things like Seons, Spren, metal vials, spheres, Elantrian robes, Hallandren dyes, etc. 
  • 32x Scene tiles. Again, many of these could probably be copied straight over, while many of them would be fun to Cosmerify. For example, the "Cause of Death" tile above could largely remain the same, but it would be fun to change one of the options to something like "Harm to the Soul/Spirit."
• The Rules would need to be rewritten and adapted for forum play. 

None of that is especially difficult, but most of it would be pretty tedious, especially if I try to do it all by myself. Coming up with 300+ different cosmere weapons, items, locations, etc. is a lot for one person to do, which is why I'm putting the call out for help. Also, I want to see if there is any interest in trying this before I potentially put all that work in for nothing. 

So, what do people think? Want to give this a try?

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Interesting. I've never heard of this game, but I am in favor of trying it out in a forum setting if you think it could work.

However, coming up with cosmere-themed cards and such is a significant time investment. That sounds burdensome for one person to handle. So, lets make a google spreadsheet that everyone can contribute to. (note, the ideas on here can and probably should be mixed in with some of the cards already in the game)

Also, it might be easier for people to come up with stuff if the scene tiles / cards are available somewhere online?

[Herowannabe he/him]

19 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

However, coming up with cosmere-themed cards and such is a significant time investment. That sounds burdensome for one person to handle. So, lets make a google spreadsheet that everyone can contribute to. (note, the ideas on here can and probably should be mixed in with some of the cards already in the game)

That’s exactly what I had in mind, you just beat me to the punch.  Thanks for beginning the project. I skimmed your spreadsheet and tweaked a few things and added a few things just off the top of my head. First of the Sun obviously needs a lot more added to it.  

 

22 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

Also, it might be easier for people to come up with stuff if the scene tiles / cards are available somewhere online?

Here’s a spreadsheet that someone made with all the scene tiles written out in English and German:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/122357/all-scene-tiles-german-and-english

[DeTess she/her]

This is a game Idea I've worked on for a while now. I've posted about it here before about a  year or so ago, and this is essentially a version 2.

The Northern Interest Trading Company is preparing for another expedition to the Pantheon. All previous missions have been lost, or returned with extreme losses. This time will be different, however, thanks to the Northern Wind, the newly designed airship that will soon leave its hangar and start on its maiden voyage. Nothing and no one will be able to stop a successful expedition when it launches, especially not those incompetent copy cats from the Southern Influence Commerce Syndicate.

General rules

Spoiler

Factions

Spoiler

Southern Influence Commerce Syndicate Saboteur:

You’ve heard of the NITC’s new project, and decided it could do with a couple of set-backs while the parent company rush their own air-ship into production.

This is the eliminiation team. Each cycle, this faction can either attack one player or sabotage one airship part. Victory is achieved when all airship parts have been sabotaged or all NITC players have been hospitalized or dismissed. The faction has a doc to conspire in.

Northern Interest Trading Company:

This faction is making the final preparations for the Northern Wind’s maiden voyage. Construction work is being finished up, and you are all preparing for and looking forward to the big expedition. This faction wins when all SITC saboteurs have been dismissed from the project or have been hospitalized.

The airship

The airship will play an important role in this game. It has a number of critical parts. If all parts are sabotaged, the NITC loses the game. The amount of parts will be based on the amount of players participating (though not on a 1:1 basis).

Dismissal vote

This is the lynch. It is used to decide who should be dismissed from the project and put under police investigation. It works just like any other lynch, only your character is merely fired and imprisoned, not outright killed. The role and alignment of the dismissed person is revealed.

Hospital

Any player that gets attacked gets sent to the hospital. The role, but not the alignment, of someone who has been hospitalized is revealed.

They get access to a shared doc with everyone else in the hospital, but they won’t be able to talk in the main thread, or respond to PM’s. All people in the hospital are immune to all actions except the dismissal vote.

Any player can decide to visit the hospital. They can’t post in the thread, vote or use actions, but they do get access to the hospital doc. At the end of the cycle they leave the hospital again. Note that visitors are not immune to being attacked, or targeted by any other role. Elims will not be allowed to talk in the elim doc while visiting the hospital.

PM’s

PM’s are closed, except for specific roles/abilities.

Cycle length

48 or 72 hour cycles, with no split between day and night.

Roles and special Airship parts

Spoiler

Everyone can submit a single action per cycle at most. Both factions can hold any of the roles listed below.

General roles

Engineer: Engineers are the lifeblood of the airship. They know it back to front, and know exactly what needs to happen to keep it operational. An unscrupulous engineer could also use that knowledge to break things, however. Every cycle, an engineer can submit an order to repair or sabotage an airship part. Two repair orders need to be submitted to fix a sabotaged part, but these two orders don't have to be submitted by the same engineer.

Doctor: A doctor can spend a cycle in the hospital, following the same rules as a visitor. At the end of the cycle, one hospitalized person of rheir choice can return to work. If a person gets hospitalized for a second time, he’s injured too badly and can’t be healed again.

Trapper: You’ve been hired by the NITC to help their expedition. Unlike the corporate softies, you have no problem with getting your hands dirty to solve a problem. You can hospitalize one player each cycle.

Airship-dependent roles

Each of these roles needs a particular key airship part to do their job. If this part is not operational, they can not use their role. If a part is sabotaged while in use, it can have an effect on the people using it, depending on the part.

Internal Affairs: You've been hired to keep an eye on the workers and make sure none of them are selling information tot eh companies rivals. every cycle, you can lock one player in the brig for one cycle. that player is role-blocked, but also protected from all attacks.

If the brig gets sabotaged, all persons that are currently locked up are hospitalized.

Navigator: You will be responsible for getting the ship to its destination once it sets out on its journey. For now, you're tasked with familiarizing yourself with tools at your disposal on the airship's bridge. These tools include a number of high-power search-lights. Every cycle you can use these lights to track one person. The target of any action that person submits that cycle will be revealed in the write-up. (For Example: Melon Dingo targeted Amber Vulture, or Mauve crocodile targeted the Starboard Engine)

If the bridge gets sabotaged while in use, a flash of light from the lights will blind the navigator for one cycle. If they vote in the next cycle, it is redirected to a random person.

Biologist: you've studied the flora and fauna of the Pantheon in detail, and will accompany the expedition to aid in the capture and study of the Aviars. Right now there's not much to do for you though. You do have access to the ship's laboratory, as well as a stack of detective novels. Each cycle you can target a single person, including someone in the hospital. You'll learn the identity of one person that interacted with them the previous cycle.Voting (either getting voted on by the target or voting on the target) and Actions (either targeting the target or being done by the target) count as interactions.

If the laboratory is sabotaged while occupied, one occupant at random is hospitalized.

Messenger: It's your job to communicate back to the company's headquarters once the expedition leaves. To do so, you've got access to all of the most modern technologies in the communications hut, as well as messenger pigeons. Each cycle you can send a single message to HQ (aka: the spectator doc). You'll receive a short reply whenever your boss feels like sending one back.

Special parts

In addition to the airship parts required by specialized roles, there are some that everyone can use as long as the part remains operational

Crew's Mess

This room provides a place for the crew to eat, relax and unwind. It also contains a message-board where people can leave anonymous messages. If this room gets sabotaged the messages posted that cycle are still posted, but will not be anonymous.

Aviar Holding area

The Holding area will carry the Aviar back from the Pantheon. Several Aviar and other birds are currently being kept there to test the facilities. Crewmen are encouraged to interact with the birds to learn their behaviour. You can use an action to request an Aviar for the next cycle, but no more than three Aviar are loaned per cycle. The birds available are:

• Sak: This bird warns you of impending danger by showing you visions of your own mutilated body. If you would be hospitalized while caring for this bird, you are instead role-blocked. The human psyche can only handle seeing themselves die a couple of times, so you can only benefit from a Sak once per game, and will not receive the bird again once you've received the benefit.
• Kokerlii: Shrouds your thoughts from the dangerous predators hunting on the Pantheon, which is not particularly useful here. It's also a particularly pretty bird with a mind of its own that'll prevent people from tracking you.
• Kukupa twins: This Peculiar bird is always born in pairs, and can communicate quickly over long distances, as well as mimic human speech in a manner similar to a  parrot. You can open a single PM with another person for as long as you've got the bird.

If the holding area is sabotaged, everyone gets a bird at random. The Saboteur is guaranteed to get an Aviar. These birds do not have to be returned until the Holding Area is repaired.

 

Between the engineer and the doctor, the village could theoretically undo anything the elims do. I will try make sure to balance the game in such a way that the village can't easily lock the elim team down by simply fixing all the damage they do.