The Art of Game Creation

[Herowannabe he/him]

1 hour ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Aonar, Amanuensis, Stink and Elbereth are part of it as well. I'll look over the rules on my lunch break.

Thanks, I'll go ahead and tag the others just in case. 

@Aonar Faileas @Amanuensis @STINK @Elbereth

[Sart he/him]

14 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Deception: Murder in the Cosmere rules are finished and awaiting review and approval. You can see all the Methods, Evidences, and Scene Tiles that will be used in the game here.  The game will take about 1 week maximum, and can be as short as a couple of days if the Investigators get a lucky guess in early. Because of this, *If and only if* the game ends too soon, I would like to request permission from the Moderators to run this game back to back a second time (using all the same players that signed up for the game). I don't know how much time is normally allotted for Quick Fixes (which this game will be run as), so I will let the Moderators decide whether or not to allow back-to-back games and if so how much time they will be allotted. @little wilson @Orlok Tsubodai @Alvron @Seonid

Also, other than the Moderators, I forget who all is part of the review committee (we should really have that info posted somewhere easy to find- I searched the stickied threads and couldn't find it), so if someone wanted to tag them for me that would be great. Thanks. 

I'm not on the rules committee, but I have some concerns:

First off, I was confused on this particular line. " The Oracle may put the tiles in any order they wish, and marks one item on each tile that best fits the crime. " The first part makes sense, but the second one confused me. I didn't realize that a tile was a general category. I thought a tile was a general word, like "The Victim's Build was Large". I would reword that section slightly. "The Oracle receives 4 random category tiles. They mark one item on each category, and can arrange the categories in any order." I only figured this out once I saw a video explaining how the real game is played.

My major concern is the role of the Oracle. Quite frankly, I don't think that should be the GM's role. In the games we run, the GM is supposed to be impartial, so they can resolve disputes between the factions. Having the GM be on the village's side is a very slippery slope. While I know you would never abuse it, it's a really dangerous precedent that I don't want to set. In more practical concerns, I imagine there would be some kind of write-up, which the GM might be tempted to put more hints in.

To avoid this situation, why don't we have the Oracle be another player? They would still be banned from posting, but would control the category tiles through a PM with the GM. The GM would still be responsible for confirming player's guesses. That would alleviate my concerns, and allow for another player to join in.

The main issue is timing. To setup the game, the murderer selects a piece of evidence and a murder weapon, and then the Oracle marks out information implicating those items. The Oracle can't do their job until the items are indicated. If we allow 24 hours for the murderer to select those, then we would need another 24 hours for the Oracle to work. That's 48 hours where no one is posting to the thread, which would be highly annoying. The simplest solution is to determine the key evidence and murder weapon randomly as well. That would save 24 hours, while still giving the Oracle time to make their case.

Overall, I'm excited for this game, and I hope you consider my suggestions.

[Herowannabe he/him]

3 hours ago, Sart said:

I'm not on the rules committee, but I have some concerns:

Thanks for the feedback!

3 hours ago, Sart said:

First off, I was confused on this particular line. " The Oracle may put the tiles in any order they wish, and marks one item on each tile that best fits the crime. " The first part makes sense, but the second one confused me. I didn't realize that a tile was a general category. I thought a tile was a general word, like "The Victim's Build was Large". I would reword that section slightly. "The Oracle receives 4 random category tiles. They mark one item on each category, and can arrange the categories in any order." I only figured this out once I saw a video explaining how the real game is played.

Thanks, yeah that was a case of me knowing what I was talking about but it wasn’t very clear. I have edited that section and explained things a lot better. I also dropped the bit about putting tiles in any order- that was a poor attempt at emulating an aspect of the real life game, but it was just too confusing and not really necessary for forum use. 

4 hours ago, Sart said:

My major concern is the role of the Oracle. Quite frankly, I don't think that should be the GM's role. In the games we run, the GM is supposed to be impartial, so they can resolve disputes between the factions. Having the GM be on the village's side is a very slippery slope. While I know you would never abuse it, it's a really dangerous precedent that I don't want to set. In more practical concerns, I imagine there would be some kind of write-up, which the GM might be tempted to put more hints in.

This is how the RL version of the game does it so that’s how I wrote it for the forum version. That being said, it is different from what we’re used to, so I understand your concern. The limiting factor is that the Oracle cannot convey any information, directly or indirectly, to the Investigators other than by marking the Scene Tiles and by answering yes or no to Accusations. They’re not even allowed to comment on things. The Oracle is under just as much obligation to adhere to these rules as all players are under obligation to adhere to other rules, like following PM guidelines and not using 3rd-party code breaking software and etc. 

As for writeups, there isn’t as much of a need for them in this game as in regular SE games, but let’s face it, we’re going to include them because they’re fun. However, the Oracle would be under obligation to not reveal anything they shouldn’t (and I already have plans on how to do writeups/RP without giving anything away). This is the same as any other GM in any other game. 

As for dispute between parties, I’m trying to imagine what sorts of disputes might arise in a game like this and I’m drawing a blank, but even if there is something, couldn’t/shouldn’t the Impartial Mod fulfil the role of... moderating disputes... impartially...?  (forgive the cheekiness, but it’s still a valid question). 

Lastly, if the Moderators decide we need to split the the GM and the Oracle into two separate roles we certainly could, but my major concern with that route is this: there isn’t really anything for the GM to do. Unlike regular SE games, there are no votes to count, no actions to log, no player deaths to take care of, etc. Even the writeups, such as they are, are going to be pretty limited because there’s not any behind the scenes activity to report on, just what’s happening in the thread. 

So like I said, if the IMs want to split the roles like that then I’ll roll with it because at this point I’m committed to seeing the game through, but I’mma be honest I would never run the game again after that. Being a GM without the added roles/responsibilities of being the Oracle sounds dreadfully dull. 

4 hours ago, Sart said:

The simplest solution is to determine the key evidence and murder weapon randomly as well.

That would definitely NOT work. The Assassin picking their Key Evidence and Means of Murder is one of the most strategic and important aspects of the game. Replacing that with a randomizer would be a terrible idea. It would be the equivalent of taking away the Eliminators’ kill action in a normal SE game and replacing it with a random death each cycle. 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

4 hours ago, Sart said:

The main issue is timing. To setup the game, the murderer selects a piece of evidence and a murder weapon, and then the Oracle marks out information implicating those items. The Oracle can't do their job until the items are indicated. If we allow 24 hours for the murderer to select those, then we would need another 24 hours for the Oracle to work. That's 48 hours where no one is posting to the thread, which would be highly annoying. The simplest solution is to determine the key evidence and murder weapon randomly as well.

 I feel that being able to choose the evidence and murder weapon is important for the assassin's strategy. Perhaps cards could be publicly dealt out as each player signs up, and then every player would send in a PM before signups end stating which evidence and murder weapon they would choose if they happen to be selected as the assassin. It isn't the most elegant solution, and starts to fall apart if too many people sign up at the last minute, but it does shave 24 hours off the preparation time without sacrificing the assassin's ability to choose the cards they feel will be most difficult for the oracle to represent.

[Herowannabe he/him]

15 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

 I feel that being able to choose the evidence and murder weapon is important for the assassin's strategy. Perhaps cards could be publicly dealt out as each player signs up, and then every player would send in a PM before signups end stating which evidence and murder weapon they would choose if they happen to be selected as the assassin. It isn't the most elegant solution, and starts to fall apart if too many people sign up at the last minute, but it does shave 24 hours off the preparation time without sacrificing the assassin's ability to choose the cards they feel will be most difficult for the oracle to represent.

That's a better solution, but still flawed in that the Assassin really wants to see all of the cards in front of the players before making a decision. For example, as the Assassin, if you see that a lot of players have cards related to poisons in front of them, then you might want to pick a poison in front of you as your Method of Murder, because then it will be harder to pick you out of the crowd. 

[A Joe in the Bush]

Hero, i hereby give this game a pass. I don't think the timing issue raised by other players will be a problem, nor do i see any other problems with the rules as you have them written. This game is good to run.

[Herowannabe he/him]

2 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Hero, i hereby give this game a pass. I don't think the timing issue raised by other players will be a problem, nor do i see any other problems with the rules as you have them written. This game is good to run.

Thank you! What about the potential issue that @Sart raised about the GM/Oracle role? I'm obviously biased in my opinion in how it should be run, so I'd like an official, outside decision one way or the other before we begin. Thanks again.

[Sart he/him]

Just now, Herowannabe said:

Thank you! What about the potential issue that @Sart raised about the GM/Oracle role? I'm obviously biased in my opinion in how it should be run, so I'd like an official, outside decision one way or the other before we begin. Thanks again.

Honestly, I would just say post it at this point. We've waited long enough for a QF, and I trust you to run a fair game.

[A Joe in the Bush]

7 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Thank you! What about the potential issue that @Sart raised about the GM/Oracle role? I'm obviously biased in my opinion in how it should be run, so I'd like an official, outside decision one way or the other before we begin. Thanks again.

I don't see how giving an Oracle role to a player would be any different than giving it to the GM. Both are confirmed village players who cannot talk outside of their role powers. All GM's have the responsibility to not reveal information in the writeups, and have the responsibility to remain impartial. You having an active role in the game does not change that. I would trust any member of this website to be an oracle and a GM until they prove that they are unable to do that.

[Herowannabe he/him]

 

21 minutes ago, Sart said:

Honestly, I would just say post it at this point. We've waited long enough for a QF, and I trust you to run a fair game.

 

12 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

I don't see how giving an Oracle role to a player would be any different than giving it to the GM. Both are confirmed village players who cannot talk outside of their role powers. All GM's have the responsibility to not reveal information in the writeups, and have the responsibility to remain impartial. You having an active role in the game does not change that. I would trust any member of this website to be an oracle and a GM until they prove that they are unable to do that.

 

Thanks to both of you, your trust means a lot.

I'll get signups posted later this evening. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Herowannabe

[Rathmaskal he/him]

On 8/10/2018 at 7:54 AM, randuir said:

That's kinda the kind of scenario I'd like to avoid. Having the starting elims know who everyone is would help keeping things a secret, but an active doc would still show plenty of hints if the elims aren't effortlessly coasting to victory, as people discuss and coordinate how to move votes in certain directions. Then there's the fact that some people have recognizable writing patterns that might out them*.

I don't disagree the the idea of the role is neat, but its not a balancing factor if there's nothing preventing the mole from outing the entire elim team if he could. One way a mole in the elim team could work is if the mole had some special win-con that prevented them from just outing everyone. In a game without PM's, making them want to survive, or have some form of anti-village win-con could fix that.

*I was in a game with an anonymous doc a while back that wasn't safe (there could be both villagers and elims in it)  and managed to figure someone out pretty quickly based on her distinctive writing pattern, but in a later game I learned that me saying 'kinda' is apparently recognizable as well.

(Finally got a chance to come back and look at this)

I'm actually not too concerned with the Snape ability - Voldemort converting people isn't required.  If he decides that there's too much in the elim doc to risk converting someone, he could just avoid that.  Plus it fits thematically   I guess maybe adding a wincon of something like 'Harry must survive' might work?  Not sure what a decent additional wincon would be (Yes, I know 'survive' would also be a decent one...but that doesn't fit thematically...)

The Cedric one is a bit different...  I purposely used the word 'speak' so that he wouldn't die automatically if Voldemort just started making PMs.  Honestly, I think it's more of a weakness than anything else.  I did consider that to some degree...  In order for it to reasonably be used as a scan, I'd think Cedric would need 2 open PMs with other people (or somehow trust people enough in thread?) and then start opening PMs after that?  With 1 PM/night, and only being able to reasonably say, "This is not Voldemort" or "I'm dead"...I don't think that's too bad.

The ability I'm actually most unsure of is whether the Resurrection Stone is a decent one.  Again, it's something that fits thematically with the game, but, as written, it 100% outs that player's role.

Anyway, I know there's a decent backlog of games and this one doesn't hit the S in SE...but I think (a variation of it at least) would be a lot of fun at some point.

[Sart he/him]

Made some revisions to the quick fix game I'm going to eventually run.

The Melee (QF Game)

Flavor: Every year, students from Armedius Academy participate in a free-for-all tournament known as the Melee. You're going to be one of those students, hoping to take top prize.

Rules: This is a free-for-all game. There are no teams in this game. The last man standing wins the cup. If the game ends with all players dying, the person who survived longest with the most kills will be the winner. Cycles are 24 hours long, but have no day-night distinctions.

Each cycle, you can do one of the following actions.

• Line of Forbiddance: Protect a player (usually yourself) from one attack.
• Line of Vigor: Attack another player.
• Line of Making: Send chalklings at another player. They cannot do any actions during the next cycle.

The order of actions is Forbiddance, then Vigor, then Making.

Cycle 0: The first cycle will be different than the rest. It will be 48 hours long, and PMs will be open for everyone to strategize in. You must choose one of the following defenses.

• Ballintain Defense (4-point circle) The quickest defense. You can no longer defend yourself, but your attacks deal double damage.
• Matson Defense (6-point circle) The standard defense. This defense has no drawbacks,  but no advantages either.
• Taylor Defense (9-point circle) The hardest defense to set up. You can't take any actions Cycle 1, but if you make it to Cycle 2, you gain an extra life.

Be wary! If more than a third of the players chooses one defense, people will be expecting it, so half the players who choose that defense will be eliminated before Cycle 1 starts.

[Straw he/him]

I've been considering doing a re-run for my LG. Does anyone have any suggestions for a game (any format) that they'd like to see run as a LG?

[I think I am here. he/him]

What about LG37? I didn’t play it, but it looks really fun and everyone afterwards seemed to enjoy it.

That, or maybe LG17. LG17 looked really cool.

Edited October 21, 2018 by I think I am here.

[Snipexe he/him]

So, for those of you who read the AN 3 spec doc, you may have noticed that @Elandera and I got talking and ended up collaborating on a Lovecraft Threnody game. Well that game has been nearly entirely built, but before we share it to the people, we need a 3rd pair of eyes to look over it to make sure things make sense and it is balanced So, if you’re interested in looking over the ruleset, but not playing in it (As there are certain advantages this would give) please shoot us a pm.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Snipexe
Grammar

[Straw he/him]

@Snipexe I'd be willing to look over it.

[Snipexe he/him]

Alright, thanks!

[Sparkrunner he/him]

I've been away for a long time, did anyone ever run my Drakeface game?

 

Spoiler

Basic Setup

There are two teams, the Drakeface Villagers and the Dawnface Sorcerers. The sorcerers have infiltrated the town, but the hardy villagers have struck a deal with the dragons to rid themselves of the Sorcerers. The sorcerers can communicate telepathically (Faction Doc) and can use their magic to "Get rid of" a villager each night turn. They win when they outnumber the villagers. The day turn is 24 hours and the night is 12. (For now) Rollover TBD. During the day turn, everyone votes on who to throw to the dragons. You may open a PM during the night turn, and it it will last until the next night turn.

 

Knacks

Knacks! Before the game starts, there will be an extra large rollover, where you will receive your GM PM. You may tell the GM what knack you want, ie. "I want to be able to hear gossip about myself!" And the GM will decide a role that goes with your knack, and give it back to you, ie. "You know one person who has mentioned you in a PM." Sorcerers do not get a knack.

 

Food

You need food to live. Every day turn, you will consume one food. If you run out of food, you die. You will receive a food every day turn, as long as you use dialogue in all of your posts, and roleplay a bit in every post.

 

Sell Your Soul

At any point during the game, you may sell me your soul. I will purchase your soul. Your soul is worth three foods. You may only sell your soul once. I accept hemalurgically modified souls. You may not make the excuse that you do not have a soul. If you try, I will take your soul and one of your limbs.

 

Sorcery

Sorcerers have a kill every night turn. They may, once during the game, revive one of their members with sorcery. They may only do this once one of their members has been killed. (A random person will be converted to the elim team, and the dead elim will stay dead, but Shh.)

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Ookla the Stroller of Road

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

I don't think so.  I'd play it.

Shouldn't the sorcery thing not work if they sold their soul?

EDIT: Maybe it could be their soul possessing someone!

Also, Flame on!

Edited December 11, 2018 by Ookla of the Flame

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I would also probably play the Drakeface game 

[Alvron he/him]

On 12/11/2018 at 3:06 PM, Ookla the Stroller of Road said:

Sell Your Soul

At any point during the game, you may sell me your soul. I will purchase your soul. Your soul is worth three foods. You may only sell your soul once. I accept hemalurgically modified souls. You may not make the excuse that you do not have a soul. If you try, I will take your soul and one of your limbs.

Does it have to be my soul?  Could I not sell you the soul of someone that sold theirs to me instead?
If I do sell my soul, could I then claim I don't have a soul?

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

3 minutes ago, Alvron said:

If I do sell my soul, could I then claim I don't have a soul?

You can always claim you don't have a soul.

Anyone can.

[Alvron he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla of the Flame said:

You can always claim you don't have a soul.

Anyone can.

But if I have a soul and claim I don't then they will take one of my limbs.  I really don't want to lose either of Magestar or Wilsons hands.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

What happens if you ask for a knack that would break the game? (i.e. "I want to always know who my enemies are.")

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

The GM will probably twist it.