Scadrial and Roshar - also the Unmade [Spoilers]

[soyperson]

So, doing some light reading in English class, on the Unmade and on Miles and Trell. 

I have made some connections. 

On Pre-TLR Scadrial, Trelagism was (and continues to be) an important thing: (from the Coppermind)

Trelagism was a dualist religion named after the god Trell. Trell's opposite was Nalt, and the two were believed to be brothers.

Trelagists believed that night was sacred and daylight was profane. During the night, Trelagists were able to see the Thousand Eyes of Trell (the stars) watching over them, but during the day, Nalt, jealous of the worship given to his brother, would shine his single eye (the sun) on the land, blocking Trelagists from seeing Trell's eyes. One can speculate that their religious observances, if they had any, were at their height during the winter months, and summer months may have contained many petitions to Trell or attempts to ward off Nalt's jealousy.

Also, in the Purelake on Roshar, very similar religiosity occurs: (also from the Coppermind)

The name of the Purelaker religion is as of yet unknown. They worshiped a god known as Nu Ralik. However, according to mythology, Nu Ralik had a younger brother, a jealous god known as Vun Makak. The Purelakers felt that they had to appease Vun Makak by pretending to worship him. They believed he was the source of all their misfortunes, but pretended to praise him for them. They often voiced gratefulness for Vun Makak's curses. The only time they were free to worship Nu Ralik aloud was in one of their holy grottos.

These are very similar, yes? 

This brings me to my second point (don't ask how; it just does): remember the Unmade? Freaky antispren named conspicuously after demons in ancient Judeo-Christian tradition?

One of them, the one called Moelach, is the one responsible for the death rattles (I already have a thread on this but I can't find the link and don't have the time). 

As Miles died at the end of AoL, he said some very cryptic, foreboding things. As I reread this, I thought of the Death Rattles. Could the influence of Roshar have somehow crept through? We already know that people from other worlds have visited Scadrial in the past, but could the Purelakers' religion have influenced Trelagism (or vice versa)? Could Moelach's influence be seeping through to Scadrial? 

This demands further study.

So... thoughts? Angles? Impressions? "No bleeder you're digging too deep into the whole Unmade thing just leave it alone for Harmony's sake"?

Edited November 11, 2016 by bleeder

[Eki]

They are very interesting connections, but I think dualist religions with sibling deities are pretty common on Earth. So there might not be anything deeper there. Then again, it is Brandon, so...

[Spoolofwhool]

Brandon has confirmed that Miles was influenced by something in those last words. However, he has avoided the issue on what entity it is, though originating from Roshar or Self were proposed.

It's possible that it was a death rattle.  if that's the case then Moelach would have to be on Scadrial, which would increase the likelihood that Odiumy is there as well. At the same time, I imagine it's possible that it was another shard whose power resulted in a similar effect to the death rattles. Hard to say.1

[Lord Tavash Shar]

Remember also that at the end of the Bands of morning we have a glowing red eyed something. Mr. Suit likens it to harmony's faceless immortals so we know that even if its not odium SOMTHING is active on Scadrial.

We need to keep an open mind rather than leaping to unmade or spren possession because that is not the only things it could be. Remember that in secret histories Kelsier saw ruin as a mass of writhing red destruction in the sky and there are things like Skaze in Elantris that influence others to do harm.
Both of those things fit some parts of the Sets over all operation and we don't know where the extra Ruin energy Sazid should have is or if all things have stayed in there correct placed. Its worth note that in Secret Histories the Ire are sure that Threnodites are trying to join the main stage of the cosmer. The way they are fussing about it In that seen I think there talking about shades.
Lord knows how those things will work on other shard worlds.

Its even possible that were looking at something related to the God beyond here and/or Adonalsium's enemy. makes sense when you think about it. Trells million star eyes are all the shattered forms its investiture takes through out the cosmer and its enemy as one whole (It its a power equal too.) is still one cohesive anti Adonalsium.

We need more information as usual. Hence I'm rabid about cosmer unbound. Though that might mostly just be lift.

[JUQ he/him]

6 hours ago, Lord Tavash Shar said:

something related to the God beyond

Brandon has said that the God beyond is not going to play a major part in the cosmere. Whether he exists or not is entirely up to the reader's interpretation. 

[Spoolofwhool]

6 hours ago, Lord Tavash Shar said:

Its worth note that in Secret Histories the Ire are sure that Threnodites are trying to join the main stage of the cosmer. The way they are fussing about it In that seen I think there talking about shades.
Lord knows how those things will work on other shard worlds.

Based on what I have heard about SH and the Coppermind, I was under the impression that the Ire were from Sel.

[soyperson]

46 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Based on what I have heard about SH and the Coppermind, I was under the impression that the Ire were from Sel.

The Ire are from Sel. But they do namedrop the Threnodites.

[VirtuousTraveller he/him]

On 11/11/2016 at 11:13 AM, Lord Tavash Shar said:

Its worth note that in Secret Histories the Ire are sure that Threnodites are trying to join the main stage of the cosmer. The way they are fussing about it In that seen I think there talking about shades.  Lord knows how those things will work on other shard worlds.

I wonder if whatever The Evil from Threnody has somehow, by the time period of Mistborn Era 2, moved onto Scadrial.  I haven't seen this idea around yet (many assume it's either Odium or Autonomy), but we really don't know what The Evil is/was other than something powerful that forced a mass migration on/to Threnody.  The shades don't seem directed by The Evil, more a result of it's influence?  Since the shades seem the result of some force messing with the afterlife on Threnody (possibly a barrier in the Cognitive Realm), maybe this is what the red eyed faceless immortal meant when it told Suit he could serve "in another realm." (i.e. The Evil can stop people from moving on into the Great Beyond of the Spiritual Realm).

Edited November 16, 2016 by VirtuousTraveller

[WeiryWriter he/him]

7 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

(i.e. The Evil can stop people from moving on into the Great Beyond of the Spiritual Realm).

Just want to chime in on this point as it is a mistake that does pop up fairly often. But the Beyond is /not/ the same as the Spiritual Realm. The Beyond, quite literally is "beyond" the Three Realms.

[VirtuousTraveller he/him]

1 hour ago, WeiryWriter said:

Just want to chime in on this point as it is a mistake that does pop up fairly often. But the Beyond is /not/ the same as the Spiritual Realm. The Beyond, quite literally is "beyond" the Three Realms.

@WeiryWriter thank you for the insight! =D

This sounds like such a new piece of information to me that it's blowing my mind!  Has this been discussed somewhere else or did I miss this in the books?

[WeiryWriter he/him]

1 hour ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

This sounds like such a new piece of information to me that it's blowing my mind!  Has this been discussed somewhere else or did I miss this in the books?

The term "the Beyond" and the basics of it being the final destination of people in the cosmere has been around for a couple years, mentioned by Brandon in interviews. It's explained in Secret History though.