Found him! [Edgedancer spoilers?]

[Stark he/him]

On 12/3/2016 at 4:31 PM, Unhinged said:

One more thing to consider is that we don't know what  Lerasiums Feruchemic powers are, he could be using his bead another way altogether.

On the same vein, we also do not know how someone can become a Feruchemist who was not born to it.  Hemalurgy is obvious, and there is no natural way to become a Hemalurgist.  Allomancy, you can either be born to, spiked to or eat a Lerasium bead (I would be very surprised if Saze does not have some equivalent metal granting power).

 

But Feruchemy, as far as we know, you can only be born into, or spiked.  We do not know of a way for a non Feruchemist to gain access to that power other than Hemalurgy, and I really don't see Hoid indulging in Hemalurgy - it would have to have been done when Ruin was still around, and I don't really see him voluntarily opening himself up to Ruin's influence.  

 

So how did Hoid become a Ferring/Feruchemist?

[Jofwu he/him]

We're pretty sure that he's been spotted using Allomancy at least once. Which heavily implies he's a mistborn. But I suppose he could ALSO be a Ferring/Feruchemist.

[HoidvsVoid]

 

I don't think hoid would shy from hemalurgy as a last resort. Since ruin is now dead and all. (Is hoid a full feruchemist or just a ferring)? Who said it needed to be before? We know he has it in way of kings, which is after mistborn. He could of got it after ruin passed.

In fact, it looks like hoid is trying everything he can to have multiple forms of power.

I guess it might possible if hoid changed his spiritual connections.

Edited December 5, 2016 by HoidvsVoid

[Stark he/him]

@jofwu, @HoidvsVoid  There was a WoB somewhere (can't remember where I found it) stating that Hoid uses a feruchemical ability to figure out where he needs to be, if not why he needs to be there.  If he was using this as early as Elantris and Mistborn: Final Empire, he was using it before Ruin was gone...  So he if he had acquired Hemalurgic Feruchemy, he would have done so long before Ruin was eliminated...

 

I'm 99.999% certain it is confirmed that he has access to Feruchemy.

 

Here is the link to Theoryland: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=895#2

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Stark
Found the Wob

[Jofwu he/him]

Huh, I've seen that before but didn't remember. I'm a bit hesitant to assume he's a Feruchemist/Ferring. It's a genetic thing and, unlike Allomancy, we don't know of another way for somebody to get the power. Not to say it isn't possible-- just that it requires a bit of a leap.

Brandon said that Hoid USES Feruchemy-- not that he is a Feruchemist. Now that we know about "unkeyed" metalminds, the [only slightly] simpler explanation of this WoB is that he's hacking the magic system rather than using it himself.

[Stark he/him]

That's true, I had completely forgotten the unkeyed metalminds.  While that is far more likely to me than Hoid using Hemalurgy, my understanding is that would require use of significantly advanced metals that may not have been accessible when he first gained these powers.  That said, I do like the idea of him going around stealing peoples luck for himself with a special metalmind.

 

I do agree that it is a genetic thing.  But there has to be a way that the first Feruchemists gained there powers and had it written into their sDNA.  Whatever that was, he may have done that.  I find that slightly more likely than him getting a metalmind made from advanced metals from a Feruchemist at the early days of Scadrial...  We will see I guess.

 

[Argent he/him]

1 hour ago, HoidvsVoid said:

Just like there was not a feruchemical use for atium (that we know of).

You mean besides the Lord Ruler's atiumminds that store age?

[A Secret Corner he/him]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 8:06 AM, skaa said:

According to a very new WoB, people who've been using time bubbles for very long are able to anchor the bubbles to themselves.

Of course, Hoid could simply include the greatshell in his time dilation. At least he'd be helping others by keeping the beast in stasis for a while.

By the way, I only used the Cadmium Allomancer as an example. I do not assume that Hoid is limited to that particular manifestation of time dilation powers. For all we know, what he does with time dilation could be more flexible than Cadmium Allomancy.

Ummm... wait what! It makes sense... as far as familiarity with the powers, and how the bubbles are anchored to the planet so possibly to other things, but wow! This opens up a lot of interesting possibilities, not to mention the possibility of mass confusion as Wayne wanders around with a speed bubble attached, doing whatever mischief he's up to...

[HoidvsVoid]

Sorry argent, i completely forgot. Whoops. Never mind that part.

Also, even if hoid has regular feruchemical powers, we only find out that he has the weird sense of where to be at way of kings. Maybe he got it only before then. And he was at the other planets previously without that power. Obviously warbreaker could be included  with way of kings as it is after mistborn.

Edited December 5, 2016 by HoidvsVoid

[Argent he/him]

26 minutes ago, HoidvsVoid said:

Also, even if hoid has regular feruchemical powers, we only find out that he has the weird sense of where to be at way of kings. Maybe he got it only before then. And he was at the other planets previously without that power. Obviously warbreaker could be included  with way of kings as it is after mistborn.

I don't have the WoB handy, but I am reasonably certain it was given in the context of Hoid showing up at both the right places and at the right times all around the Cosmere - so it is very likely something he's had even before Elantris.

[Weltall]

On the 'Hoid has feruchemy' thing, Brandon expanded his earlier explanation of how he gets where he needs to be at one of the signings. What he said is that the underlying mechanism that Hoid uses to know where a novel-worthy plot is happening is identical to feruchemical chromium but that Hoid isn't necessarily using feruchemy to achieve that end. He may be using a Yolish antecedent or some other form of Investiture that works on the same principle as feruchemical chromium, without needing to be a feruchemist himself.

Of course he left himself wiggle room so that Hoid could indeed be a feruchemist but he doesn't have to be one to accomplish what he does. So the question of 'how did Hoid gain feruchemy?' is now mooted until we know if he's actually using chromium to plan his schedule or if he's got some other method that has a similar effect.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Weltall

[Jondesu he/him]

On 12/5/2016 at 9:07 AM, HoidvsVoid said:

 

I don't think hoid would shy from hemalurgy as a last resort. Since ruin is now dead and all. (Is hoid a full feruchemist or just a ferring)? Who said it needed to be before? We know he has it in way of kings, which is after mistborn. He could of got it after ruin passed.

In fact, it looks like hoid is trying everything he can to have multiple forms of power.

I guess it might possible if hoid changed his spiritual connections.

There's a WoB that Hoid has not used Hemalurgy. I suspect the fact he's implied he can't hurt people physically would be involved, and I also suspect he wouldn't want to risk opening his soul up to interference from Ruin/Harmony.

[skaa he/him]

17 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

There's a WoB that Hoid has not used Hemalurgy. I suspect the fact he's implied he can't hurt people physically would be involved, and I also suspect he wouldn't want to risk opening his soul up to interference from Ruin/Harmony.

Correct.

[HoidvsVoid]

He says unlikely...not no.

[skaa he/him]

4 minutes ago, HoidvsVoid said:

He says unlikely...not no.

 

Quote

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Ok, he does not have Hemalurgy.

 

 

Source.

Is that better?

[Mirdrim]

As far as the reference to "the element" I thought he was talking about the chain/black gemstone that Szeth took from Gavilar.  The only reason I thought of it right away is because I hadn't heard anything else of it.  It seems like it might be a stretch that Hoid would give the thing to Gavilar and know that eventually Szeth would kill him and be given it for safekeeping.

Regardless whether this has anything to do with Hoid, it is an interesting little tidbit that I had forgotten until my second readthrough of WoK.  It's interesting that Gavilar trusts Szeth, as his killer, to keep it safe and deliver a message to his brother.

[HoidvsVoid]

Much better. Thanks skaa. 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

On 12/5/2016 at 5:48 AM, Stark said:

But Feruchemy, as far as we know, you can only be born into, or spiked.  We do not know of a way for a non Feruchemist to gain access to that power other than Hemalurgy

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this but is it not possible to use Lerasium in some way (perhaps alloying it with Atium or something else) in order to rewrite your spiritweb to make you a Feruchemist? I thought this had been discussed as a possible way for Hoid to have gained Feruchemical powers.

[Jondesu he/him]

9 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this but is it not possible to use Lerasium in some way (perhaps alloying it with Atium or something else) in order to rewrite your spiritweb to make you a Feruchemist? I thought this had been discussed as a possible way for Hoid to have gained Feruchemical powers.

It may be possible given what we know of Lerasium's true purpose. Hoid seems to have had that particular ability from before he got the Lerasium, though, so my guess is that it's a Yolish form of Feruchemy, or that he got it sometime previously. Hard to be sure, though.

[XenosHg]

Original-post-related

I suddenly remembered that Rock has met Hoid when he first appeared. Which means that either Rock never meets the Wit, or Hoid looks more different than just "hair dyed black"

Quote

“Lunu’anaki,” Rock said, “is god of travel and mischief. Very powerful god. He came from depths of peak ocean, from realm of gods.”
“What did he look like?” Lopen asked, eyes wide.
“Like person,” Rock said. “Maybe Alethi, though skin was lighter. Very angular face. Handsome, perhaps. With white hair.”
Sigzil looked up sharply. “White hair?”
“Yes,” Rock said. “Not grey, like old man, but white—yet he is young man. He spoke with me on shore. Ha! Made mockery of my beard. Asked what year it was, by Horneater calendar. Thought my name was funny. Very powerful god.”
“Were you scared?” Lopen asked.
“No, of course not. Lunu’anaki cannot hurt man. Is forbidden by other gods. Everyone knows this.” 
 

Makes me wonder exactly how well-known this little fact is.

(And is it, perhaps, the other end of the Elantrian people-dissolving lake?)


 

Edited December 8, 2016 by XenosHg

[Jondesu he/him]

21 minutes ago, XenosHg said:

 

Original-post-related

I suddenly remembered that Rock has met Hoid when he first appeared. Which means that either Rock never meets the Wit, or Hoid looks more different than just "hair dyed black"

 

I think it's safe to say Rock hasn't met Wit (other than that meeting).  He really wouldn't have had reason to, since he's not one of the actual guards that would be watching the king or Dalinar.

[Weltall]

Yeah, so far there's no indication that Rock has seen Hoid-as-Wit, not that he would have had many opportunities anyways.

27 minutes ago, XenosHg said:

(And is it, perhaps, the other end of the Elantrian people-dissolving lake?)

The pool in Elantris and the one in the Horneater Peaks are both what are officially known as Perpendicularities, locations where there's such a huge concentration of Investiture that the lines between the three realms blur and one can pass between the Physical and the Cognitive with ease. These are usually (but not always) associated with the presence of a Shard on the world and all the ones we've seen so far take the form of pools though it's implied others exist. So yes, the two pools are very much related but they aren't gateways leading directly from the one to the other.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Weltall

[Sarevok]

On 8-12-2016 at 10:47 PM, Weltall said:

all the ones we've seen so far take the form of pools though it's implied others exist.

Not quite.

Mistborn: SH spoiler

Don't forget the Pits of Hathsin. Kelsier destroying it was wat Hoid was so grumpy about when they met at the Well of Ascension (which was itself also a shardpool perpendicularity).

[Weltall]

Word of Brandon is that there was a pool there.

[Sarevok]

10 hours ago, Weltall said:

Word of Brandon is that there was a pool there.

If you mean this quote:
 

Mistborn spoilers, emphasis mine:

CHAOS

Does Ruin have a pool, similar to Preservation's pool with the Well of Ascension and Skai's pool in Elantris?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. His pool is the pits.

 

To me this means that the pits with the Atium beads was functionally his shardpool, not that it was an actually watery pool.