Ranette

[soyperson]

So, like, Ranette's a lesbian.

Good, now that we've got that out of the way, how do you think the rest of Elendel reacts to gay people? Like, Wayne and Marasi seem pretty chill about the whole thing, while, in early 1900's America (or early 1900's anywhere, for that matter) being gay made you subject to any crem the general populace wanted to throw at you. It would be interesting to see how Era 2 Elendel feelings toward homosexuals, et c., are. 

Any thoughts?

Edited December 24, 2016 by bleeder

[StormyQueen she/her]

I would say that it's fine in their society. I mean, as you said, the main characters are pretty chill about it, however I'd say another thing is that, by the looks of it (unless Marasi and Ranette are like best friends or something), Ranette doesn't try to hide it in any way, and I think if it was unacceptable to a huge extent (like if it was illegal or something, or if it came with huge social consequences), she'd probably try to hide it more than letting everybody know about it.

I don't know, thats just what I think. Thoughts?

[Landis963 he/him]

2 hours ago, FiveLate said:

Don't think that their Religions put the same negative connotations on it that all the Abriatic religions of our world do.  

It's not stated either way.  I choose to headcanon that the Steel Ministry frowned on it, but that Survivorist doctrine is centered so heavily on "Steel Ministry is wrong about everything" that if anti-homosexual sentiment persists in any way, shape, or form past the Catacendre, enough of the Basin population is Survivorist (Or Pathian, which wouldn't be any more sympathetic towards any hypothetical Sliverist homophobes) that voicing such would invite assault at worst, and ostracization at best.  

[soyperson]

2 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

It's not stated either way.  I choose to headcanon that the Steel Ministry frowned on it, but that Survivorist doctrine is centered so heavily on "Steel Ministry is wrong about everything" that if anti-homosexual sentiment persists in any way, shape, or form past the Catacendre, enough of the Basin population is Survivorist (Or Pathian, which wouldn't be any more sympathetic towards any hypothetical Sliverist homophobes) that voicing such would invite assault at worst, and ostracization at best.  

That makes sense. I can get behind this.

Headcanon seconded.

[Exalted]

From the Coppermind:

Quote

In Harmony's words, he has a stated interest in "giving as many as possible the opportunity to make their own choices".

So Harmony's probably on board with it as well. And if the world's major god is okay with your life choices, you're probably going to be accepted in most of society.

[Argent he/him]

Brandon has spoken about this once or twice. If I recall correctly, Scadrial has never had the negativity against homosexuality our world has had (and still has), so it's always been accepted as more or less normal. I suspect some people might feel weird about it, but those would be individuals. 

[Yata he/him]

I was on Reddit and I found a specific post on the matter:

Quote

Yes, this varies widely based on the planet, and even culture, /u/TimAnEnchanter.

Roshar, for instance, has a lot of different perspectives on homosexuality. In Iri, the more religious segment (who believe that life is about new experiences) would approve, while the more rigid modern, secular society has outlawed it.

In Azir, you'd find something like existed in middle-ages India. (Some societies there had this curious system where a gay man would be given "social reassignment" so that he was treated like a woman, dressed like one, and had relations with men--even if he wasn't t actually transsexual.)

Vorin culture is concerned with oaths. Extra-marital sexuality is strictly forbidden, but homosexuality is regarded the same by most as heterosexual relationships. If the proper oaths are spoken, then the Almighty approves. (This usually means marriage, but there are certain official forms of other relationships that would allow it also.)

There are actually a couple of scenes in Book Three talking about it, for those who are interested, as the family and romantic relationships of the bridgemen are becoming a larger part of the story. (Still a small part, I should note, for space limitations.)

On Scadrial, it's going to fall between Pathian lines (each individual decides for themselves) and Survivorist lines (you follow church hierarchy, which forbids it.)

Don't even get me started on Bavadin's religions

 

[Savanorn he/him]

3 hours ago, Yata said:

I was on Reddit and I found a specific post on the matter:

 

This makes sense, given that Survivorism is the most stereotypical rigid church. I'm kind of surprised about Roshar in general though. 

[+Extesian he/him]

Interesting that the implication (though it's hard to infer much from some WoBs) is that Bavadin's religions are not tolerant towards self-determination given she holds the Autonomy Shard. I'm more and more curious about Bavadin's religions. And how many of them we've seen.

[Savanorn he/him]

59 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Interesting that the implication (though it's hard to infer much from some WoBs) is that Bavadin's religions are not tolerant towards self-determination given she holds the Autonomy Shard. I'm more and more curious about Bavadin's religions. And how many of them we've seen.

I presumed he meant the opposite, or rather that there's a lot to talk about. 

[Stark he/him]

1 hour ago, Extesian said:

Interesting that the implication (though it's hard to infer much from some WoBs) is that Bavadin's religions are not tolerant towards self-determination given she holds the Autonomy Shard. I'm more and more curious about Bavadin's religions. And how many of them we've seen.

 

Yeah, I agree with @Savanorn, I read this as Bavadin has her fingers in so many different religions that she likely has many different and conflicting stances about the acceptability of homosexuality.  More so in the Pantheons where she is everybody, including those that conflict...

 

I read it as a "Don't get me started, because she takes so many different stances on different things to further her agenda, it is hard to pin down what she actually believes on a given subject."

 

In any religion, she likely promotes whatever will serve her agenda there.  If on world X, promoting Homosexuality in religion A, banning it in religion B, and being neutral towards it in religion D all suit her purpose, that's what she will do, if she is involved in those religions.  As a result, discussing what she actually thinks becomes such a complicated and long subject that I don't blame Brandon for saying "Nope, not touching that right now"

[+Extesian he/him]

Yeah I think this is a fair read. I still find it interesting that Autonomy would have religions that are so inconsistent in terms of individual (autonomous) rights. It's not a great surprise after the revelation in AU that Autonomy does interfere with other worlds, I'm just interested to see how much Bavadin's goals align with Autonomy (eg oppressive religions that have the eventual goal of autonomy for a world, independence from Shardic influence) and how much there are goals that in no way align with ideals of autonomy.

Basically I'm interested to see if Bavadin exerts more influence as a vessel than the Shard itself, as we know the Vessel can influence the Shard but normally will lose the battle and become overwhelmed by the Shard's intent.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

It may be that the Shard's intent prevents it from influencing its vessel...

Now I want to know what the Sliverests and the various Southern tribes believe...

I'm also wondering if their are any religions that follow Judaism's view. Basically, male/male is forbidden but female/female isn't (though strongly disapproved of.) Since most religions I know of (real and fictional) say either yes or no to both, it would be interesting to see a fictional faith with the same dichotomy.

[soyperson]

Maybe we'll see that on Threnody?