Long Game 30: Journey Before Destination

[Jondesu he/him]

1 minute ago, DroughtBringer said:

Hmm...This is a pretty interesting comment...I am not sure if I trust it that much, the word "certain" there makes things interesting.

(this is from my read through of everything Lopen has posted posted, more will come if I find anything else)

More specifically, Lopen seemed very sure that Alvron was the Elsecaller, which if he was, he could somewhat safely accuse him of, knowing no one would be able to truthfully claim the Elsecaller as their own role to dispute it. I've gotten fairly good vibes from Randuir and Doc too, so while I was feeling like I was beginning to trust Lopen, this is definitely looking like a pretty good lead if nothing else.  All this together also makes me wonder again about Drake, who had the Dustbringer spren up until this cycle (assuming he was telling the truth, but everything is pointing to that so far).  Mage was likely to get it if he lost it, and if Mage had been Unjust, I'd have considered Drake confirmed, but now I can't quite make sense of the move.

Also, if someone can give Kintas an assist, that'd be great.  I'll work it out myself in a bit if no one else does, but these RP posts benefit from collaboration, so I don't want to remove the opportunity.

Oh, and Mage's murder leaves only two of us with the max possible Honor, myself and Randuir (hopefully we both remain safe for a while, though I'm sure that'll be a factor in who gets targeted), and the list thins further from there. Ecth almost certainly does have a spren, I'd say, with 13 Honor earned, and Doc, Alv, Lopen, and Joe I'm guessing do as well (Arin and Drake are up in the same area with them on earned Honor, but we know they both lost their spren). If Randuir has a spren, and I guess it's obvious enough that I'll just come out and say that I do as well, that 7 probably options. It's possible Assassin, Silver Dragon, or Elbereth got spren early, but if they did, they'll be running low on Honor, and we haven't seen any bonds break.  Silver could have kept one, he's got 8 Honor and if he got a spren, it would either have to have been D3 with some of the first, or D5 or D6, in which case it took more Honor and he's running short since he didn't earn any last round.  If Elbereth had bonded one, though, that bond would definitely have broken by now, and we haven't had any unexplained broken bonds, so I don't think that makes sense. Drought could have one, if he bonded D3, but hasn't earned any since then until the last cycle, so would have had trouble maintaining that bond, so it's unlikely. DA could have one too, actually, but hasn't been earning enough Honor by my count to keep it for long as well, and didn't earn a lot up front to beat out any other bids for a spren.

If I'm remembering correctly (and I corrected myself mentally as I went to write this), we have 7 bonds currently, correct?  So most likely, those currently bonded are myself, Ecth, Randuir, Doc, Alv, Lopen, and Joe. Of those, one is the Elsecaller that we're fairly certain is Unjust (currently Lopen is accused, and I want to hear what he has to say before I say much more there), and I know my own spren.  I know the spren of two others in that list as well, or at least I'm fairly confident they haven't lied to me, and can use that info to guess at least likely associations for the others.  I guess what I'm not certain is which spren we think the Unjust would have gone for first.  Dustbringer is the obvious one, but we know that's unbonded right at the moment. Stoneward they would probably want, more to keep it away from the village than to use for themselves, in fact, and Edgedancer is going to be really helpful for them too.  I'd be really curious where that ended up after Arin's bond was broken, in fact.  Truthwatcher could be useful for them, but I did have it argued to me that it wouldn't be that valuable overall, so they may have focused their attention elsewhere.  Willshaper is semi-helpful for the Elims, but not that critical, and I don't believe the Willshaper is Unjust, as I said last cycle. Has anyone seen evidence of the Windrunner being used to role-block them? I wouldn't be surprised if an Elim went for that one, but I'm hoping we got it as the Honorable because if we can identify some of the Elims, we can cut down on their ability to execute by being able to roleblock one of them and having a 40-50% chance at blocking their kill if we can block someone we know is Elim (since they have to send two for the kill, unless the victim is in jail, which they do seem to be trying to do, and I assume there are 4-5 Unjust).

Whew, that's a lot of detail.  Anything I left out?

[Ecthelion III he/him]

As I told you before in our little 'history lesson', I have been searching for potential survivors of the desolation of my home planet...

-

Fifth was impatient. The sounds of battle filled his ears. Men were dying out there, men who needed him. He could save lives if he could only help. But instead he was stuck here, holding a pike to help Shallan climb Rysharock to save Kaladin.

Kintas's battle caught his eye. Kintas fought bravely, felling one, two, three of them, and then he stooped down to help up an injured soldier. But halfway to the bridge, two Parshendi stepped out in front of them and grinned menacingly.  They raised their swords in an expert stance, and one of them darted forward, his blade closing on Kintas' neck with no time for Kintas to either dodge or block it. Then the Voidbringer's sword disappeared in a puff of smoke and Kintas stabbed the defenseless demon.

Then Kintas's sword disappeared as well, leaving him suddenly and completely weaponless. Fifth gasped. I have to go help him!

But Shallan...

She's a Shardbearer. She can fend for herself.

Fifth released the pike, jamming it between two rocks where it hopefully wouldn't slip and allow Shallan to fall. Then, in a flash of light, he activated his hook swords again and jumped off Rysharock.

"Sorry m'lady." he told Shallan, sliding down the rock face using the swords for friction.

He hit the ground with the force of a falling boulder and began clearing a path straight to Kintas.

Oops, I had this finished and forgot to hit submit. @Jondesu go ahead and RP what I do once I get to you

Edited March 1, 2017 by Ecthelion III

[Jondesu he/him]

Kintas staggered off balance as his sword disappeared, less shocked than the Voidbringers had been previously, but he hadn't anticipated it happening to him. He had assumed someone was assisting in the battle knowingly, but this indicated maybe there was something wrong with the Voidbringer's swords. Fortunately for Kintas, the lighteyed officer still leaning on his shoulder had the presence of mind to bring his sword up to block the opportunistic strike from the red and black mottled Parshendi, though it resulted in both Kintas and the officer falling to the ground, the other man letting out a sharp cry as his injured knee hit the rocks. 

Then Fifth leapt over a fallen soldier behind them and planted himself in front of the injured Parshendi, wielding his unusual hooked swords that seemed to come from nowhere at times. This man's magic requires much closer study, especially considering how novel it was. Why, it was a lot like Soulstamping, but if that worked outside of MaiPon, let alone Sel, Kintas would have to learn how.

Focus.

Right, there was still a battle going on. Fifth had caught a swing from the Voidbringer's sword with one of his, and hooked the other around his opponent's leg, allowing him to flip the creature on its back and finish it off. He turned and helped Kintas and the officer rise again, and escorted them the rest of the way back to the bridge, where some of the other officers who remained behind pulled their fellow officer to safety. The officer turned and handed his sword to Kintas as he went, a look of understanding and gratitude in his eyes. 

Once again armed, and hopefully with a weapon that wouldn't transform itself into useless smoke or something else, he chased after Fifth, who was working his way back to the Rysharock and Shallan, who was...

using a long metal pike to help her climb up the rock? In a storm?

Kintas looked at the storm wall approaching from the west and grimaced. This highstorm was far too close already, but they couldn't break from the fighting in time to do any good. They'd have to find shelter out here somehow. 

Wait, the west? He stared in horror as his mind finally placed that tidbit of information.

Highstorms came from the east.

The Everstorm was upon them.

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

I've been pretty busy lately, but here's some more on the Stranger (btw, can someone who survives this "discover" Hashiv's dead body)

-----------------------------------------------

Phantom felt something change, a little rustle in the winds here, a strange vibration in the air there. He had stayed back while everyone had left. Whispers were already out about him, and it would not do him good to show himself in such a way. Besides, this was the perfect time to try and understand the Oathgate system while the halls were relatively empty.

He had felt a...hollowness after putting Hashiv out of his misery, the young man had truly believed he was going to become a thing of legends, even if his manipulation had brought out some of those feelings. But the action had told him one thing. He was truly willing to do anything, risk anything, sacrifice everything. 

If it meant he could go home.

--------------------

I know I haven't been much help lately... I haven't been feeling myself. I'm gonna make an initiative from now on, any analysis on my behalf from this post forward will be from what I have read since this this cycle

Edited March 1, 2017 by Darkness Ascendant

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

6 hours ago, Ecthelion III said:

 

As some of you might already know, I am the Truthwatcher. I've been scanning for the Elsecaller for quite some time, and I wonder what Lopen has to say for himself now that I've finally found him out.

A couple reasons why this doesn't make sense.

1. You've been scanning for the Elsecaller for quite some time? Why is that? We didn't see any evidence of them until last Cycle, which brought us to the conclusion that they were Unjust. Which means that you'd start scanning for them then. Not to mention that your scan before this one was supposedly on Joe(but got switched to Quiver), who could not possibly be the Elsecaller due to his Honor counts.

2. Next, you said you already scanned me. Last Cycle, Ecth told me he'd scanned me already. This completely destroys any chance of me being the Elsecaller, because the Elsecaller and the Truthwatcher were Bonded the same Cycle. So any scans Ecth made after he got his spren would be able to prove whether someone is the Elsecaller or not. Doesn't matter when his scan of me happened.

Anyways, I have put all of my Honor towards an Inkspren(Elsecaller), but I am not the Elsecaller. Ecthelion.

[DeTess she/her]

There are, at the moment 3 people who can hold the Elsecaller spren. These are Randuir, Alvron and Lopen. If someone thinks someone else needs to be on this list, contact me and I'll tell you why that's unlikely to be the case, or facepalm while I add them to the list.

Last cycle, me and Lopen discussed who to go for. There where two people we suspected, being Alvron (as we concluded he had to be the elsecaller) and Jondesu. Lopen argued in favor of Alvron because, if he was the elsecaller, imprisoning anyone else would not result in an execution, as the elsecaller can save them.

Last cycle, Lopen eventually forgoed the lynch on Alvron and decided to go after Arinian instead. Now I don't actually disagree that Arinian is likely an elim. However, as Lopen pointed out in the PM, if [elim other than the elsecaller](in this case, arin) is imprisoned, he'll probably get temporarily freed again next cycle by the elsecaller. Now, I can understand backing the lynch that actually has a chance of succeeding, rather than trying to start a new lynch on the person that, by process of elimination, would have to be the new elsecaller. However, Lopen did not actually state in thread his new suspicion, which risked his conclusions disappearing with him if he died last cycle(Only I, and possibly droughtbringer, knew of his calculations, and if both Alvron and Lopen where honorable, I had to be, by process of elimination, the unjust elsecaller). Lopen took none of these precautions, however. 

Now, as I know I'm not unjust, that leaves me with two candidates for holding the elsecaller, being Lopen and Alvron. I'm not sure whether I can believe ecthelion, and his discussion between Lopen seems to come down to who I'm going to believe claimed what things in PM (but if someone else can prove Ecthelion is honorable or unjust, I'd like to hear it). So instead of going by ecthelion's read, I'd like hear what @Alvron told Lopen to convince him he was not an elim. 

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by randuir

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

My thoughts

Doc- Leaning towards the Villager end, he does seem genuinely pissed at not having lynched anyone yet, course, he could be speaking from an Elim point of view, that he hasn't been able to lynch any villagers, but I doubt that.

Joe- Don't have much of a reading

@Assassin in Burgundy- You have been strangely quiet lately, I don't have much of a read on you but I'm leaning towards Elim a little right now

Jondesu- Villager reading

Randuir- Elim reading (gut feeling)

@TheSilverDragon- hasn't been very active, I think.

Ecthelion- I don't have a reading, although I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out Elim

@JUQ- has been quiet, though I relate that to his rl problems

Shqueeves- seems to have gotten some dirt from everyone before, again, wouldn't be surprised if turns out Elim

Lopen- Villager reading, though I feel some manipulation going on there

LazyAnarchist- I don't now much about this new player, so I will give he/her a neutral reading

Alvron- has been pulling some sneaky tricks, and has been quite vague this game. I take back my vote to lynch Shqueeves and put it on Alvron who is currently screaming ELIM in my head.

Drought- Haven't seen much by him, so I delay my judgement

@Elbereth- has also been unusually quiet lately. Again, rl may be interfering so I reserve my judgement.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Darkness Ascendant

[DeTess she/her]

1 minute ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Alvron- has been pulling some sneaky tricks, and has been quite vague this game. I take back my vote to lynch Shqueeves and put it on Alvron who is currently screaming ELIM in my head.

You can't execute Alvron untill he's imprisoned. To bring out that vote, put it in orange. You can't vote to execute Shqueeves either, because he's temporarily out of prison(but will return there next cycle).

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

4 minutes ago, randuir said:

You can't execute Alvron untill he's imprisoned. To bring out that vote, put it in orange. You can't vote to execute Shqueeves either, because he's temporarily out of prison(but will return there next cycle).

thanks

 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I don't know if anyone else knew, but I know Jondesu knew Ecth was the Truthwatcher. It's possible Ecth told him his scans, but I doubt it, because then Jon could corroborate my story.

Anyways, here's how my PM with Ecth went:

I PM'd him asking if he was the Truthwatcher, because he was one of the only possibilities. He admitted to being the Truthwatcher, and asked for information on who the Willshaper was. I told him, because I suspect the Willshaper. Ecth then says he suspects either me or the Willshaper of being Unjust, because of how we were "going after each other." I questioned him about that, because the Willshaper actually said they had a village read on me at that point. Then Ecth said he'd confused them with someone else. I asked Ecth who the player was he was talking about, but he never responded. So I sent another PM asking him for his scans. Ecth said he wouldn't just give me his scans, that I had to give him something in return. Then he asked what spren Drought was going after/had. I said I wouldn't tell him, because I don't like to reveal others roles too much. I told him to just ask Drought and he'd probably tell him, which caused him to ask Drought, and then eventually Drought had me tell Ecth instead for PM safety reasons(Drought can confirm all of this part at least). Ecth told me 2 of his scans(Drought and Joe/Quiver), but I knew that he'd had time for at least 1 more, so I asked him again to tell me all of his scans. He said he'd scanned me, Drought, and Joe/Quiver. I thanked him and suggested he scan Randuir or Alvron, unless we lynched Alv, but I said I wasn't sure if I wanted to, because I was getting a village read on him in our PM. He said he was already planning on scanning Alv. He also said that he had a PM with Alv and that he was reading him as village as well(like he said in thread last Cycle I believe).

So I guess part of the reason why I was willing to lynch Arin instead of Alv was that I was thinking we'd get some definite proof about which of Alv or rand was the Elsecaller.

[Jondesu he/him]

@TheMightyLopen, Ecth told me that he'd scanned you and Drought, and that neither of you had spren at the time he scanned you.

What makes you say that the Truthwatcher and the Elsecaller definitely bonded in the same cycle, though? We don't get confirmation of which spren are bonded, and we didn't have definitive evidence of when either bond formed exactly, though the Elsecaller bond probably formed D6, considering D7 was the first use of it that was visible to us. That would seem to make your claim that they bonded on the same cycle unlikely if Ecth did indeed bond Truthwatcher on D4 or D5 as I believe I've calculated, and would match up with you, as the first scan, not having a spren, but then gaining the Elsecaller spren after that.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Lopen, your logic is full of holes.

5 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

You've been scanning for the Elsecaller for quite some time? Why is that? We didn't see any evidence of them until last Cycle, which brought us to the conclusion that they were Unjust.

I've been scanning for them for quite some time as a potential ally. When they started using their action for evil intent, I figured they were actually an eliminator, so why not continue searching for him?

5 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Not to mention that your scan before this one was supposedly on Joe(but got switched to Quiver), who could not possibly be the Elsecaller due to his Honor counts

This one... number one, how the storms do you know the required Honor count for being the Elsecaller, hmm? Joe had, I believe, 5 Honor in the first three cycles. And if this next statement is true:

5 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

the Elsecaller and the Truthwatcher were Bonded the same Cycle

then Joe would likely have been able to get the Elsecaller, since it would have been bonded at the end of C3 like my truthwatcherspren.
And might I also ask why you assumed that they were bonded the same cycle? We didn't see evidence of the Elsecaller until later on in the game, so unless I'm missing something, the only reason why you would have believed that the Elsecaller was surely bonded C3 would be if it was you who did the bonding.

6 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Anyways, I have put all of my Honor towards an Inkspren(Elsecaller)

This one isn't faulty logic per se, more like strategy which I don't understand. If you knew that Elsecaller was bonded C3 (one of your earlier claims), why did you keep throwing Honor into it?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

7 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

@TheMightyLopen, Ecth told me that he'd scanned you and Drought, and that neither of you had spren at the time he scanned you.

What makes you say that the Truthwatcher and the Elsecaller definitely bonded in the same cycle, though? We don't get confirmation of which spren are bonded, and we didn't have definitive evidence of when either bond formed exactly, though the Elsecaller bond probably formed D6, considering D7 was the first use of it that was visible to us. That would seem to make your claim that they bonded on the same cycle unlikely if Ecth did indeed bond Truthwatcher on D4 or D5 as I believe I've calculated, and would match up with you, as the first scan, not having a spren, but then gaining the Elsecaller spren after that.

Sweet. Thanks for revealing that.

2 minutes ago, Ecthelion III said:

Lopen, your logic is full of holes.

I've been scanning for them for quite some time as a potential ally. When they started using their action for evil intent, I figured they were actually an eliminator, so why not continue searching for him?

This one... number one, how the storms do you know the required Honor count for being the Elsecaller, hmm? Joe had, I believe, 5 Honor in the first three cycles. And if this next statement is true:

then Joe would likely have been able to get the Elsecaller, since it would have been bonded at the end of C3 like my truthwatcherspren.
And might I also ask why you assumed that they were bonded the same cycle? We didn't see evidence of the Elsecaller until later on in the game, so unless I'm missing something, the only reason why you would have believed that the Elsecaller was surely bonded C3 would be if it was you who did the bonding.

This one isn't faulty logic per se, more like strategy which I don't understand. If you knew that Elsecaller was bonded C3 (one of your earlier claims), why did you keep throwing Honor into it?

I don't know, it just seemed weird that you'd be scanning specifically for the Elsecaller. But fine, if that's your story.

I know because Aman told me someone else Bonded the spren on C4. I'd put all 6 of my Honor towards it, so I know it costs 5 or 6. You could have known Joe wasn't the Elsecaller because he didn't get any Honor on C5, so if he had Bonded a spren, he would have lost it then.

I know they were Bonded the same Cycle because HH said he went for Truthwatcher and he got the message someone else got it at the end of C3 and someone got Elsecaller before me also at the end of C3. So no, there's 2 ways I'd know the Elsecaller was surely bonded C3.

I asked Aman if there were 2 people going for the same spren, would the one with more Honor in that Order have a higher chance? And he said yes, so I put 3 more Honor towards an Inkspren. But I've saved my last 2 Honor since I don't think anyone else is going for Inkspren.

Anyways, it's actually provable that the Elsecaller was Bonded at the end of C3 I think.

Here's how the Bonds have gone(according to gathered info/claims):

End of C2, there were 2 Bonds. Rae got Lightweaver, and the Willshaper got theirs.
End of C3, there were 3 Bonds. Arin got Edgedancer, Ecth got Truthwatcher, and the mystery one(I know it's Elsecaller, but whatever).
End of C4, there was 1 Bond. Drake got Dustbringer here and Arin lost his Bond.
End of C5, there was 1 Bond. Arin claims it was another Edgedancer(I believe this is the one you're all accusing me of having gotten Elsecaller on?).
End of C6, there were 2 Bonds. Another Lightweaver, and something I haven't figured out yet(but it can't be Elsecaller).
End of C7, no Bonds were formed.

So, let's look at the facts. The first Elsecall prison switch happened at the end of C5, meaning the Elsecaller Bonded their spren sometime before C6. It had to be either C3 or C5. Arin claims someone Bonded Edgedancer then. No one has claimed that that I know of, sadly. Ecth is, I think, claiming he scanned me with his second scan. First Drought on C4, then me on C5, then Joe/Quiver on C6, then me again just now.

Aman, if a player Bonds a spren and gets scanned by the Truthwatcher on the same Cycle, what would the Truthwatcher see?

Unfortunately, we don't know when Ecth scanned me the first time, since he's being very vague about it. :/ But there's also another way to try and prove this. The 3 Bonds that could have been formed on C3 were Elsecaller, Stoneward, and Windrunner. I know of a player who's trying for Stoneward, so it wasn't that. I haven't heard of anyone going after Windrunner, but if we could find anyone who has put Honor towards that, they could hopefully tell us if that Bond is taken or not and when it was(I'm assuming the Bond we don't know of on C6 was a Windrunner or a Skybreaker). Also, if there's any other players who have put Honor towards Elsecaller before the end of C3, we could get confirmation that I'm telling the truth from them as well.

So what Ecth is claiming that I did was tell players I'm going for Elsecaller(told Drought on D1, told Randuir C3 or so), tell them that someone else got it at the end of C3, then I get it on C5, tell Arin to tell the thread that a new Edgedancer was created and not an Elsecaller, then hope that no one else was trying to Bond an Elsecaller, because if they did, they'd have received a message on C5 telling them that someone just became an Elsecaller, which would automatically get Arin lynched, as well as get me lynched right after. Oh, and also hope that the player who Bonded the spren on C3 would never claim(and anyone else going after that spren who would have received a message saying that spren was taken), because if they did, I'd get lynched immediately for lying about an Elsecaller being Bonded when it was actually something else. So even without concrete, 100% definite proof, I'd hope that you all don't think I'm that much of an idiot.

Now can we all lynch Ecth?

[Jondesu he/him]

Argh, I'm having such a hard time knowing who to believe.  The breakdown of which bonds formed when does make sense, Lopen, and lines up with what I know.  I want to see the answer to your question to Aman as well, since that would answer one concern.

However, I wouldn't argue that you getting it on C3 (which does seem likely) and you being Unjust are mutually exclusive.  Just because we didn't see the effects of the Elsecaller before doesn't mean you didn't do something else before working up the strategy of teleporting people in and out of prison in order to get a kill.  That's definitely something that could have occurred to you or a teammate a few cycles into the game.

Basically, even if all your math adds up, it doesn't actually clear you.  And no one else would claim Elsecaller right now, since we all know the Elsecaller is Unjust.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

 

28 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Argh, I'm having such a hard time knowing who to believe.  The breakdown of which bonds formed when does make sense, Lopen, and lines up with what I know.  I want to see the answer to your question to Aman as well, since that would answer one concern.

However, I wouldn't argue that you getting it on C3 (which does seem likely) and you being Unjust are mutually exclusive.  Just because we didn't see the effects of the Elsecaller before doesn't mean you didn't do something else before working up the strategy of teleporting people in and out of prison in order to get a kill.  That's definitely something that could have occurred to you or a teammate a few cycles into the game.

Basically, even if all your math adds up, it doesn't actually clear you.  And no one else would claim Elsecaller right now, since we all know the Elsecaller is Unjust.

Well, it would "clear" me by showing that Ecth is lying about his scan(s), meaning he's an Unjust framing me. So unless you think both me and Ecth are Unjust, yeah, it actually does clear me.

[Doc12 he/him]

Throughout the battlefield, the Voidbringers had been growing more and more confused as their weapons turned against them. Blades became fire and burnt their hands, or became smoke and drifted away, or melted into blood and dripped from their hands. 

Hithon

Kintas' sword had vanished too, but that wasn't his fault. All the Parshendi weapons looked and sounded the same...

And well, so did any other weapon, to be honest. But he was reasonably sure that he hadn't vanished too many human weapons... Reasonably.

This is dangerous 

As he had run through Shadesmar, Anorien had been his faithful companion, warning him of dangers, acting as his translator the souls of the weapons. Hithon spoke, challenged, cajoled, and Anorien translated, and if the change took, Hithon fed the sphere more of his precious stormlight.

Anorien had become more agitated the more he changed, humming disapprovingly whenever he turned his head in her direction. 

Hithon, please

Shadesmar was...it was beautiful. It was the one place where he could touch a soul, and see it shining brightly in his mind. He had seen weapons, swords, tables, armor, and some other things he wished he hadn't. But he had seen into their hearts. And it was beautiful.

She was yelling at him now. He was running, and he was shivering. the cold bit dip into his bones, and he knew his Stormlight was on the verge of running out. He'd used it too liberally, he supposed. 

Are all humans this storming stub-

His stormlight ran out. 

HITHON!!

He fell, straight into the consuming darkness of the sea of souls, as they sought to smother him and destroy him. 

HITHON!!!!

---

He was thrust, jerked, violenty thrown from Shadesmar, shivering, exhausted. drained. He retched. The cold, hard ground felt as beautiful as any bed. Strong winds gusted upon him, and he heard the screams of soldiers, the chanting of the Parshendi, and his own voice telling him to Get a move on!!! Torrential rains buffeted him, extremely strong winds forced him back. 

It was storming.

Oh Storms, was it here already???

Were they hear already?

Growls. Behind him. Singing.

Two Voidbringers, laughing, smug. Hithon swiveled in the directions of their voice, and pulled out two daggers.

Another deep breath.

This was going to suck...

---

Anyone want to save Hithon from his predicament? I can handle this pair, no problem, but I'm not going to get far without help.  And Jon, I found your rp for that fantastic.

---

Right, time to address the startling development. 

Firstly, how provable is Ecth's claim to be Truthwatcher?

I believe it's time I did a role reveal to the thread. Lopen, Jondesu and Randuir already know of my abilities, and if even one of the was an Unjust, then the Unjust already know. So I suppose there's no point depriving the village of it, I guess. I'm the one who picked up the Lightweaver bond when Rae died. (Say hello, Anorien) I received the bond last cycle, and I spent it spying on one of Randuir's PMs. The PM was between Randuir and Drake, and they were discussing some strategies. After Drake summarized the last cycle, he asked if Randuir was the Truthwatcher, asking him to work together with Dustbringer!Mage to find suspicious spren. Randuir denied being the Truthwatcher, then quoted a chart that he and Lopen made together, in the end concluding that either Ecth or Drought has it. Randuir has also shown me this chart in a PM, and to me, at least, it checks out.

What does this mean? It means that there is a very definite possibility that Ecth really is a Truthwatcher. When I reported these findings to Jondesu and Lopen, Lopen was able to confirm that Ecth claimed Truthwatcher to him last cycle. And so, I think that Ecth's claim does check out? Lopen himself seemed to believe that Ecth was the Truthwatcher right until the part where Ecth found him out for being a Elsecaller? 

Secondly, what are the possible scenarios?

Right. Anyway, going on the assumption that Ecth is really the Truthwatcher, then it's really taking guts to accuse Lopen like this. Whether or bit Lopen turns out to be village, Ecth becomes an instant target.  Or is the reason you're confident about revealing it is that you've found concrete protection for yourself, either from a Windrunner or squire? I hope you protect yourself better next times. 

However, if execute Lopen and find that he is a villager, then Ecth has just exposed himself mighty well. He wouldn't survive another round. The only problem is that we can only find the results of that execution in two cycles. But we'd have a very solid lead then.

Thirdly, are there alternative possibilites?

5 hours ago, randuir said:

Last cycle, me and Lopen discussed who to go for. There where two people we suspected, being Alvron (as we concluded he had to be the elsecaller) and Jondesu. Lopen argued in favor of Alvron because, if he was the elsecaller, imprisoning anyone else would not result in an execution, as the elsecaller can save them.

Last cycle, Lopen eventually forgoed the lynch on Alvron and decided to go after Arinian instead. Now I don't actually disagree that Arinian is likely an elim. However, as Lopen pointed out in the PM, if [elim other than the elsecaller](in this case, arin) is imprisoned, he'll probably get temporarily freed again next cycle by the elsecaller. Now, I can understand backing the lynch that actually has a chance of succeeding, rather than trying to start a new lynch on the person that, by process of elimination, would have to be the new elsecaller. However, Lopen did not actually state in thread his new suspicion, which risked his conclusions disappearing with him if he died last cycle(Only I, and possibly droughtbringer, knew of his calculations, and if both Alvron and Lopen where honorable, I had to be, by process of elimination, the unjust elsecaller). Lopen took none of these precautions, however. 

Now, as I know I'm not unjust, that leaves me with two candidates for holding the elsecaller, being Lopen and Alvron. I'm not sure whether I can believe ecthelion, and his discussion between Lopen seems to come down to who I'm going to believe claimed what things in PM (but if someone else can prove Ecthelion is honorable or unjust, I'd like to hear it). So instead of going by ecthelion's read, I'd like hear what @Alvron told Lopen to convince him he was not an elim. 

Randuir, I must confess to being confused by your post. If I read it correctly, you're saying that there are three possible people who are Elsecallers, namely you, Alv and Lopen? And that as Lopen is acting suspiciously and not in the best interests of the village, you believe he's the one you seek? Also, I suppose its a moot point now that Ecth has actually scanned the Elsecaller, but I'd like to hear about your process of elimination, if possible?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

10 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

 

Firstly, how provable is Ecth's claim to be Truthwatcher?

I believe it's time I did a role reveal to the thread. Lopen, Jondesu and Randuir already know of my abilities, and if even one of the was an Unjust, then the Unjust already know. So I suppose there's no point depriving the village of it, I guess. I'm the one who picked up the Lightweaver bond when Rae died. (Say hello, Anorien) I received the bond last cycle, and I spent it spying on one of Randuir's PMs. The PM was between Randuir and Drake, and they were discussing some strategies. After Drake summarized the last cycle, he asked if Randuir was the Truthwatcher, asking him to work together with Dustbringer!Mage to find suspicious spren. Randuir denied being the Truthwatcher, then quoted a chart that he and Lopen made together, in the end concluding that either Ecth or Drought has it. Randuir has also shown me this chart in a PM, and to me, at least, it checks out.

What does this mean? It means that there is a very definite possibility that Ecth really is a Truthwatcher. When I reported these findings to Jondesu and Lopen, Lopen was able to confirm that Ecth claimed Truthwatcher to him last cycle. And so, I think that Ecth's claim does check out? Lopen himself seemed to believe that Ecth was the Truthwatcher right until the part where Ecth found him out for being a Elsecaller? 

Secondly, what are the possible scenarios?

Right. Anyway, going on the assumption that Ecth is really the Truthwatcher, then it's really taking guts to accuse Lopen like this. Whether or bit Lopen turns out to be village, Ecth becomes an instant target.  Or is the reason you're confident about revealing it is that you've found concrete protection for yourself, either from a Windrunner or squire? I hope you protect yourself better next times. 

However, if execute Lopen and find that he is a villager, then Ecth has just exposed himself mighty well. He wouldn't survive another round. The only problem is that we can only find the results of that execution in two cycles. But we'd have a very solid lead then.

Thirdly, are there alternative possibilites?

Randuir, I must confess to being confused by your post. If I read it correctly, you're saying that there are three possible people who are Elsecallers, namely you, Alv and Lopen? And that as Lopen is acting suspiciously and not in the best interests of the village, you believe he's the one you seek? Also, I suppose its a moot point now that Ecth has actually scanned the Elsecaller, but I'd like to hear about your process of elimination, if possible?

I don't see any reason to doubt Ecth's claim. We know there's a Truthwatcher because of HH(confirmed Honorable going after Truthwatcher and he told us so), so it would be extremely foolish for Ecth to claim if he wasn't it(unless one of his Unjust teammates is actually the Truthwatcher, in which case it doesn't really make much difference).

Next, you list the possible scenarios, but leave out a very important detail. Active player numbers.

The active players are(9 plus Shqueeves): myself, you, Jondesu, Ecthelion, Alvron, Randuir, Joe(hopefully), Drought, and DA(nice analysis by the way!), plus Shqueeves is around as well.
Inactives(5): Elbereth(please come back!), Assassin(you too!), SD(and you!), JUQ, and LA.
Players in prison(3): Quiver, Arinian, Drake.

Let's say that there's still 3 Unjust that aren't imprisoned(I'm guessing 4, but I'm also guessing you're trying to be optimistic since you think we can afford to waste 2 Cycles). That's 3 to 6, and they could have the Willshaper. You lynch me and I'm village, that's 3 to 5. If they Elsecall someone into prison and kill them, it's 3 to 4, and they've got voting power because of the Willshaper. Or maybe they wouldn't risk the inactives coming back, so they don't use the Elsecaller. So it's 3 to 5. You still have to execute me, meaning you're gonna lynch someone. At this point, you're going to be assuming I'm the Unjust Elsecaller, so you aren't going to go after the real one(probably Alv), you've no reason to go after Ecth if you believe him(please don't, I feel like I've laid it out as clearly as possible that he's lying), which means you've got a 1 out of 6 chance to hit the other Unjust. Chances are, you aren't going to lynch them. So another villager down, the elims kill someone, and the game ends before you can ever use the "solid lead" you get from my execution.

What we really, really need to do is pardon Drake, execute Arinian, and imprison one of Ecth, Alv, or the Willshaper(honestly I've almost revealed your identity a million times since it's so glaringly obvious and I imagine the Unjust would have killed you by now unless you are one, which I suspect strongly).

I think the best plan is to try and arrest the Elsecaller(so either Alvron or Rand, and I'm betting it's Alv since Ecth saved him last Cycle) now, execute him and arrest the Willshaper next Cycle, then arrest Ecth and execute the Willshaper. At that point, if the game doesn't end, I'm coming after you Doc. Well, I'll likely be dead by then since this is only happening if everyone believes me over Ecth, but you get the point.

[Jondesu he/him]

Sorry, Lopen, but at this point Ecth's story is fitting together better to me and I can confirm some parts of it. And I'm very confident the Willshaper isn't Unjust. Because it's me. And since I've revealed to both you and Ecth anyways, the Unjust know no matter what, I believe.  

Edited March 1, 2017 by Jondesu
Fixed colors

[DeTess she/her]

51 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

Randuir, I must confess to being confused by your post. If I read it correctly, you're saying that there are three possible people who are Elsecallers, namely you, Alv and Lopen? And that as Lopen is acting suspiciously and not in the best interests of the village, you believe he's the one you seek? Also, I suppose its a moot point now that Ecth has actually scanned the Elsecaller, but I'd like to hear about your process of elimination, if possible?

Okay, so the process is based on Lopen’s claim that elsecaller was bonded cycle 3, and that he put 6 honour towards it. I don’t see a reason for him to lie about that, unless he either is the elsecaller, or knows who is and is protecting him(which would make him an elim as well).

So, first of all, who do we think had 6 honour on cycle 3? These are Alvron, Arraenae, Drake, Drought, Jondesu, Randuir and Lopen (and possibly doc and Joe as well. I thought they had less, Lopen had them for 6). You can count this yourself if you want, but it should (hopefully) all check out.

We can exclude Arraenae because he/she’s dead, and Drake because he’s been in prison during the current activities of the elsecaller. We can exclude joe because he hasn’t earned enough honor to keep the bond, and Drought didn’t earn any honor on cycle 4, so he would have lost the bond if he’d had it. Jondesu has claimed to have a spren this cycle, and has claimed the specific spren to me before that. Events have supported that claim. Doc's claim just now has removed him from the list, and he’d claimed to me shortly after getting the spren, which is why I excluded him before that claim.

This leaves Alvron, me and Lopen. I can exclude myself from the process of obvious reasons, but I suppose the rest of you will want something more concrete. I could point to the fact that I’ve tried to be helpful, but that also goes for Lopen, and is at best a subjective ‘proof’. The best proof I can think of is actually Lopen’s continued survival.

Let’s imagine, for the moment, a scenario in which I am the unjust elsecaller, and everything else remains the same. This hypothetical me has worked with Lopen and has him convinced that Alvron is in fact the elsecaller. Then, suddenly, Lopen backs away from Alvron (as he did last cycle), and claims that Alvron has given him the feeling that he is village. In this scenario, Lopen has only one possible suspect for holding elsecaller, which is me. This is something I am aware of, as Lopen had shared his calculations and estimates with me. But for some reason, Lopen didn’t reveal this information. If I had been unjust, I would have killed Lopen before he could reveal that information this cycle, and I think I'm not the only one who'd taken that action in that situation.

That’s the best proof I can come up with now. Next cycle I’ll be able to offer something better, as I expect to finally bond a spren this cycle.

This leaves Alvron and Lopen as possible holders of the Inkspren. I’ve asked Alvron to tell me what he’s told Lopen to convince him to back off from voting on him. If he can convince me as well, that leaves it obvious who I should vote for. If it isn’t, it’s still somewhat up in the air.

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Aman, if a player Bonds a spren and gets scanned by the Truthwatcher on the same Cycle, what would the Truthwatcher see?

They would be informed that they had the spren.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

1 hour ago, randuir said:

Okay, so the process is based on Lopen’s claim that elsecaller was bonded cycle 3, and that he put 6 honour towards it. I don’t see a reason for him to lie about that, unless he either is the elsecaller, or knows who is and is protecting him(which would make him an elim as well).

So, first of all, who do we think had 6 honour on cycle 3? These are Alvron, Arraenae, Drake, Drought, Jondesu, Randuir and Lopen (and possibly doc and Joe as well. I thought they had less, Lopen had them for 6). You can count this yourself if you want, but it should (hopefully) all check out.

We can exclude Arraenae because he/she’s dead, and Drake because he’s been in prison during the current activities of the elsecaller. We can exclude joe because he hasn’t earned enough honor to keep the bond, and Drought didn’t earn any honor on cycle 4, so he would have lost the bond if he’d had it. Jondesu has claimed to have a spren this cycle, and has claimed the specific spren to me before that. Events have supported that claim. Doc's claim just now has removed him from the list, and he’d claimed to me shortly after getting the spren, which is why I excluded him before that claim.

This leaves Alvron, me and Lopen. I can exclude myself from the process of obvious reasons, but I suppose the rest of you will want something more concrete. I could point to the fact that I’ve tried to be helpful, but that also goes for Lopen, and is at best a subjective ‘proof’. The best proof I can think of is actually Lopen’s continued survival.

Let’s imagine, for the moment, a scenario in which I am the unjust elsecaller, and everything else remains the same. This hypothetical me has worked with Lopen and has him convinced that Alvron is in fact the elsecaller. Then, suddenly, Lopen backs away from Alvron (as he did last cycle), and claims that Alvron has given him the feeling that he is village. In this scenario, Lopen has only one possible suspect for holding elsecaller, which is me. This is something I am aware of, as Lopen had shared his calculations and estimates with me. But for some reason, Lopen didn’t reveal this information. If I had been unjust, I would have killed Lopen before he could reveal that information this cycle, and I think I'm not the only one who'd taken that action in that situation.

That’s the best proof I can come up with now. Next cycle I’ll be able to offer something better, as I expect to finally bond a spren this cycle.

This leaves Alvron and Lopen as possible holders of the Inkspren. I’ve asked Alvron to tell me what he’s told Lopen to convince him to back off from voting on him. If he can convince me as well, that leaves it obvious who I should vote for. If it isn’t, it’s still somewhat up in the air.

 

Yeah, I messed up with that whole situation last Cycle. There wasn't any one thing that Alv said to me that changed my mind.

As for why they didn't kill me, well, I believe they've only got 1 player free to use an Unjust action, and as close as it is, I think they didn't want Mage to get the Dustbringer spren, since that would give the village a kill role, and that is really the one sure thing that could stop them at this point.

2 hours ago, Jondesu said:

Sorry, Lopen, but at this point Ecth's story is fitting together better to me and I can confirm some parts of it. And I'm very confident the Willshaper isn't Unjust. Because it's me. And since I've revealed to both you and Ecth anyways, the Unjust know no matter what, I believe.  

How is Ecth's story fitting together better? Explain it to me. I'm not gonna just let you put a vote on me with no better reason than that. Explain to me what you think happened/is happening. I've dismantled Ecth's story. There's absolutely no way I'd be as stupid as I'd have to have been to do what would be necessary for me to have done to be the Unjust Elsecaller. I can understand you voting on me, because I'm just about 100% sure you're Unjust, but I'm not going down without a fight, and if you can't show me and everyone else why you believe Ecth, I think that should be even more proof that I'm innocent.

If my case for my innocence wasn't clear enough the first time, here's what the accusation/rebuttal is.

Ecth says I'm the Elsecaller, but that he scanned me C4 or C5 and I didn't have a spren then. He then scanned me again this Cycle and saw that I had the Elsecaller spren. There are supposedly 2 unknown Bonds in which I could have bonded the Elsecaller spren. 1 on C3(which I know is the Elsecaller because someone else got it and Aman told me they did), and 1 on C5(which Arin says was a new Edgedancer). In order for Ecth to be telling the truth, me and Arin would have had to lie publicly about those Bonds being created. This would mean that no villager would have put Honor towards Elsecaller, Edgedancer, or whatever would supposedly have been Bonded on C3. Why would we take such a stupid risk???? How would we have the knowledge to have the confidence to make those claims? It's unbelievable that we would. It would mean instant death if any 3 of those Spren had had villagers trying to Bond them. All for what? What would I be trying to gain at that point by lying about which Bonds were created? Anonymity for my Bond? But if my teammate hadn't Bonded the Truthwatcher spren, wouldn't I be worried about being scanned? And so, if I knew that I was on thin ice about lying, why would I use my ability in such an incriminating way? It's beyond belief to think that I would.

As it is, I'm going to move my vote to Alvron, since I believe he's the Elsecaller and I believe that stopping the Elsecaller is the only way we've still got a shot at pulling this off. I'm not sure if I did this yet either. Drake, Arinian.

[Alvron he/him]

9 hours ago, randuir said:

So instead of going by ecthelion's read, I'd like hear what @Alvron told Lopen to convince him he was not an elim. 

Honestly, I have no idea what I said that made Lopen change his mind.  He did say he wasn't sure which of us (me or Ari) was an Elim.  Right before he changed his vote he asked if I was the Willshaper and I said I wasn't going to say and since it seems I'm going to jail he will just have to execute me and find out.   Then he said he was confused and I said that if he's taking suggestions then I recommend Ari.  He then changed his vote but said he done so before reading my last PM.  He hasn't responded to any of my PMs since then, although to be fair there was only two.

8 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

My thoughts

Alvron- has been pulling some sneaky tricks, and has been quite vague this game. I take back my vote to lynch Shqueeves and put it on Alvron who is currently screaming ELIM in my head.

What sneaky things have I done?  If you're talking about not being lynched, then I can't defend that as I had nothing to do with it. Chapter 4 I was saved by Jon and Headshot making and breaking the tie, Chapter 5 I was saved by the Willshaper and this last chapter it was Lopen that saved me.  Why they did so? I don't know.  You will have to ask them.

[Droughtbringer]

Okay well I know what the bond formed last cycle was...only I am not at liberty to tell the thread currently. I have proof that the person who claimed the role to me actually had the role. If I am required to give more proof for it then I will.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Vote tally:

Alvron(2): Jon, DA, Lopen
Lopen(3): Ecth, Doc, Jon
Ecthelion(0): Lopen

Execute Arinian(4/8): Doc, Jon, Rand, Lopen

Pardon Drake(3/12): Jon, Rand, Lopen

Everyone needs to vote for every facet of the lynch. @Alvron, @A Joe in the Bush, @Elbereth, @Assassin in Burgundy, @TheSilverDragon, @JUQ, @Ecthelion III, @Shqueeves, @DroughtBringer, and @Darkness Ascendant. If we can get 8 of those 10 players to add their pardon vote to Drake, we could get him out with Jon's vote manipulation power(I don't think he'll end up needing it for the regular lynch). There is 4 inactives in there though. Storm them. I'll PM them, but I don't know how likely it is they'll see it. Still, I've got hope.

[A Joe in the Bush]

I've really only skimmed the thread, but i don't have time to read the whole thing. But I've been suspicious of Alv for a while now, and am willing to pardon execute Drake/Arinian Also, early someone said i was likely bonded to a spren. I am not. I've only received five honour this game, due to RL things and MR20.