Who will die in Oathbringer?

[Kered he/him]

I've always had the feeling that by the end of the second arc all of the Heralds will be dead, with the characters becoming the new Heralds. I don't think the new Heralds will form a new Oathpact, I think there duty will just to defend Roshar. 

I also see one of Dalinar's children dying. Seems like that would be a really good story arc with a lot of emotion behind it. Maybe the death of one of his children will send Dalinar down a "dark" path.

 

I also think either Shallan or Kaladin will die, but I lean more towards Shallan. I don't have any particular reasoning for this last one, just one comes to mind when I think of character deaths. I could see Kaladin falling for Shallan, but Shallan doesn't return the favor. Her death will leave Kaladin with a lot of confusing emotions that will make him distraught before what ever the final battle with Odium and his servants is. 

[Jondesu he/him]

20 minutes ago, KereDerek said:

I've always had the feeling that by the end of the second arc all of the Heralds will be dead, with the characters becoming the new Heralds. I don't think the new Heralds will form a new Oathpact, I think there duty will just to defend Roshar. 

Even after "breaking" the Oathpact, I don't think the Heralds can die.  I think if they're killed on Roshar, they'll still be sucked back to Damnation, or whatever exactly happens.  Brandon has said the Oathpact isn't as broken as they think, and that is likely part of it.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

27 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Even after "breaking" the Oathpact, I don't think the Heralds can die.  I think if they're killed on Roshar, they'll still be sucked back to Damnation, or whatever exactly happens.  Brandon has said the Oathpact isn't as broken as they think, and that is likely part of it.

I have a theory that if a Herald were killed by Nightblood, they would die permanently. Nothing that concrete, but it always seemed to fit the little we know about Nightblood and the Heralds. We need more information about how the Oathpact works first. 

[Jondesu he/him]

1 hour ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I have a theory that if a Herald were killed by Nightblood, they would die permanently. Nothing that concrete, but it always seemed to fit the little we know about Nightblood and the Heralds. We need more information about how the Oathpact works first. 

That would make Nale dying more plausible. Edgedancer spoilers:

Spoiler

Szeth finally stood up to Nale and knows he's wrong, and to protect someone he knows is innocent, he might use Nightblood to kill him (which could kill Szeth as well, actually).

 

[maxal she/her]

6 hours ago, KereDerek said:

I've always had the feeling that by the end of the second arc all of the Heralds will be dead, with the characters becoming the new Heralds. I don't think the new Heralds will form a new Oathpact, I think there duty will just to defend Roshar. 

I also see one of Dalinar's children dying. Seems like that would be a really good story arc with a lot of emotion behind it. Maybe the death of one of his children will send Dalinar down a "dark" path.

 

I also think either Shallan or Kaladin will die, but I lean more towards Shallan. I don't have any particular reasoning for this last one, just one comes to mind when I think of character deaths. I could see Kaladin falling for Shallan, but Shallan doesn't return the favor. Her death will leave Kaladin with a lot of confusing emotions that will make him distraught before what ever the final battle with Odium and his servants is. 

Considering the fact I am not overly interested within the grizzled warrior/older character tropes, I would argue having Dalinar survive his sons is likely to be anti-climatic. My dislike sprout from the fact older characters are often restricted within their growth, most of it having happened in the past. Dalinar is an extremely rigid character whom has already changed and is not currently showing the signs to further change, at least not in a dramatic way. Focusing more on him, as a character, imply spending more time dealing with politics which is nice and sweet, but it also typically isn't my favorite story arc.

This my be my personal thoughts only, but I would hate for Adolin and/or Renarin to die just so Dalinar could live through emotions he has already lived through. 

This being being said, if one of Dalinar's sons were to die and if we are to look at it from Dalinar's character sole angle, I would say the death the most susceptible to create conflicting and/or painful emotions into Dalinar is Adolin. In other words, I would argue Adolin dying would create a stronger emotional turmoil within Dalinar than Renarin, not because he loves/prefers/favors him most, but because he doesn't. It is customary, when someone dies, to look back at our relationship with the individual, such as Navani is seen doing with Jasnah. Providing Dalinar has to do this with Adolin, I suspect he'd come to realize he has spend a lifetime being harsh, hard, putting all of his wildest expectations on his son, never truly listening to him and worst, never truly getting to know the man he was. Were he to do it with Renarin, he'd have less conflicting emotions to process as he has given this child everything he ever asked, except health which he cannot grant. He has loved him for whom he was, what he was while he has refused the same treatment to his eldest. 

Since I obviously do not want Adolin to die and since I sincerely believe he is a more interesting character alive than dead, I'd say the next death susceptible to create the best emotional turmoil in Dalinar would be Elhokar. Dalinar's blindness towards Elhokar's true personality sprouts from guilt for having "failed" Gavilar. Elhokar dying would force Dalinar to process these emotions and perhaps grow.

As for Kaladin, considering a large chunk of his story arc has been, so far, about dealing with Tien's death, I would rather he doesn't have to deal with another "significant" one's death. This story arc has already been used with his character, so to use it again would be repetitive. If Brandon is forced to re-use story arcs in order to add drama to Kaladin's main narrative, they it might be it is time to stop focusing on his character and write about someone else. Just my thoughts, though, you are free to disagree.

I personally do not expect neither Kaladin nor Shallan to die.

[Kered he/him]

5 hours ago, maxal said:

Considering the fact I am not overly interested within the grizzled warrior/older character tropes, I would argue having Dalinar survive his sons is likely to be anti-climatic. My dislike sprout from the fact older characters are often restricted within their growth, most of it having happened in the past. Dalinar is an extremely rigid character whom has already changed and is not currently showing the signs to further change, at least not in a dramatic way. Focusing more on him, as a character, imply spending more time dealing with politics which is nice and sweet, but it also typically isn't my favorite story arc.

This my be my personal thoughts only, but I would hate for Adolin and/or Renarin to die just so Dalinar could live through emotions he has already lived through. 

This being being said, if one of Dalinar's sons were to die and if we are to look at it from Dalinar's character sole angle, I would say the death the most susceptible to create conflicting and/or painful emotions into Dalinar is Adolin. In other words, I would argue Adolin dying would create a stronger emotional turmoil within Dalinar than Renarin, not because he loves/prefers/favors him most, but because he doesn't. It is customary, when someone dies, to look back at our relationship with the individual, such as Navani is seen doing with Jasnah. Providing Dalinar has to do this with Adolin, I suspect he'd come to realize he has spend a lifetime being harsh, hard, putting all of his wildest expectations on his son, never truly listening to him and worst, never truly getting to know the man he was. Were he to do it with Renarin, he'd have less conflicting emotions to process as he has given this child everything he ever asked, except health which he cannot grant. He has loved him for whom he was, what he was while he has refused the same treatment to his eldest. 

Since I obviously do not want Adolin to die and since I sincerely believe he is a more interesting character alive than dead, I'd say the next death susceptible to create the best emotional turmoil in Dalinar would be Elhokar. Dalinar's blindness towards Elhokar's true personality sprouts from guilt for having "failed" Gavilar. Elhokar dying would force Dalinar to process these emotions and perhaps grow.

As for Kaladin, considering a large chunk of his story arc has been, so far, about dealing with Tien's death, I would rather he doesn't have to deal with another "significant" one's death. This story arc has already been used with his character, so to use it again would be repetitive. If Brandon is forced to re-use story arcs in order to add drama to Kaladin's main narrative, they it might be it is time to stop focusing on his character and write about someone else. Just my thoughts, though, you are free to disagree.

I personally do not expect neither Kaladin nor Shallan to die.

Mmm, I didn't even the think of the implications of Elhokar dying. It makes more sense than any of the deaths I've considered. 

[maxal she/her]

17 minutes ago, KereDerek said:

Mmm, I didn't even the think of the implications of Elhokar dying. It makes more sense than any of the deaths I've considered. 

Elhokar has been on my personal list of "likely to die" characters ever since the release of WoR. He is a foil to Dalinar, he is meant to represent his guilt for Gavilar's death. He also serves as a mean for Dalinar to absolve himself from his former jealousy he felt towards his older brother. In other words, Dalinar both hated and loved Gavilar which likely exacerbated his reactions towards his death. All of these emotions, emotions Dalinar spent a lifetime harboring and nurturing were turned onto his nephew. It is thus Dalinar cannot be hard/harsh on Elhokar as he feels he would be betraying the love he bore to Gavilar or the love he felt he should have bore to Gavilar.

All in all, Dalinar's interpersonal relationships are very complicated. Oddly enough, I feel his easiest relationship is probably with Renarin as his sickness as made it so Dalinar refused to put wild expectations on him. It also prevented him from projecting himself onto his son. In other words, because Renarin can never live up to his father's former glory due to reasons outside of his control, Dalinar has managed to simply love his son for whom he is, what he is. No expectations, no high hopes, no disappointment, no nothing, just the love a father has for his son which can sometimes be incapacitating and blind, but it is there.

With Elhokar, there is a lot of love and... a guilt transfer. 

Adolin is probably Dalinar's most complicated relationship as while those two look like they bore each other endless respect, there are too many expectations and/or worshiping toss in between them. Dalinar also loves Adolin for the man he wants him to grow up into as opposed to the man he really is and that might end up being a problem, someday.

[Jondesu he/him]

On the other hand, if Elhokar is going to become a good king and even perhaps a Radiant, having Dalinar die for him might be a believable trigger. I don't really like that possibility right now, but I could see it working.

[Stark he/him]

23 hours ago, KereDerek said:

 

I've always had the feeling that by the end of the second arc all of the Heralds will be dead, with the characters becoming the new Heralds. I don't think the new Heralds will form a new Oathpact, I think there duty will just to defend Roshar. 

 

My only hesitation before full heartedly agreeing with you is I am fairly certain that the man referred to as Taln is slated to be one of the second arc main characters.  And if he actually is a herald, his flashback sequences to damnation would be terrible to behold.

 

And yes, I know Brandon has not ruled out the possibility of a main character being dead in their own book...  But... I'm hesitant to commit to that line of thought.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

3 hours ago, Stark said:

I am fairly certain that the man referred to as Taln is slated to be one of the second arc main characters.

That depends on your interpretation of wording.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

The back five books are all about the Heralds. Two of them claim to be Heralds..... Two of the point-of-views will be Heralds.

He says "will be Heralds" so if the man claiming to be Taln isn't, then he wouldn't be the PoV Herald Taln.

[maxal she/her]

18 hours ago, Jondesu said:

On the other hand, if Elhokar is going to become a good king and even perhaps a Radiant, having Dalinar die for him might be a believable trigger. I don't really like that possibility right now, but I could see it working.

I have several issues with the "Elhokar learning how to become a good king" and the "Elhokar becoming a Radiant because he is broken" potential story arcs.

The major one is I fail to see what they would add to the already existing main narrative. I do not see the need to further explore Elhokar as a character nor do I see the need to have yet another "I am a worthless individual, I have no self-esteem, but oh surprise here are super-powers to solve them all" story arcs. Elhokar's characters thus does not strike me as different enough or complementary enough to the current set of more major protagonist to warrant an independent story arc.

The other issue I have is I would not want every single "broken" individual to suddenly bond a spren. I feel becoming a Radiant has to be more special, more precious: just being broken without exhibiting any out of the ordinary qualities strike to me as insufficient. However, feel or wish merely expresses my personal preferences which often are entirely different from the author's.

And finally, another issue would be the fact I fear we are starting to have too many characters... I honestly do not see the need to add yet another one unless he has a purpose within the story. However, if this purpose is just to have a "character arc" culminating in him becoming a "great individual", then I fail to grasp why we need it. 

Thus, Elhokar strikes to me as a good foil, a good means to bring about conflicts and/or help steer the main narrative in given directions, but he does not strike as good "protagonist" material. Perhaps if it were another story, my commentary would be different, but within the Stormlight Archive, he just doesn't seem to add enough to get this promotion.

Obviously, everyone is free to disagree with me. I know there are those who love the character, but not all characters we love end up getting page time and if I were to chose, Elhokar wouldn't be among my first choices. I feel other non-major characters are more interesting and better rounded up for an upgraded story arc.

[Landis963 he/him]

Actually, speaking of Elhokar... You know what might be kind of (how to phrase this) interestingly cruel for the story to do to him?  Let him know what all those Cryptics hanging around are actually doing... and then prove to him without a doubt that they're not interested anymore.  

Edited March 7, 2017 by Landis963

[maxal she/her]

12 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

Actually, speaking of Elhokar... You know what might be kind of (how to phrase this) interestingly cruel for the story to do to him?  Let him know what all those Cryptics hanging around are actually doing... and then prove to him without a doubt that they're not interested anymore.  

I have always thought we needed an example of a failed bonding: an individual which is investigated, but dropped afterwards for failing to progress. I however do not think this is cruel: there real cruelty is Adolin for whom no sprens thought it was fit to even investigate. Elhokar, at least, got their interest, even if for a while.

[Jondesu he/him]

17 minutes ago, maxal said:

I have always thought we needed an example of a failed bonding: an individual which is investigated, but dropped afterwards for failing to progress. I however do not think this is cruel: there real cruelty is Adolin for whom no sprens thought it was fit to even investigate. Elhokar, at least, got their interest, even if for a while.

We don't know that, actually. Not all spren would be visible during the time they were investigating a possible candidate, I would assume.

[Landis963 he/him]

46 minutes ago, maxal said:

I have always thought we needed an example of a failed bonding: an individual which is investigated, but dropped afterwards for failing to progress. I however do not think this is cruel: there real cruelty is Adolin for whom no sprens thought it was fit to even investigate. Elhokar, at least, got their interest, even if for a while.

I guarantee that Elhokar would not see it that way.  Also, we don't know whether or not Adolin was looked into; we just know that without the requisite "cracks" in his soul and adversity in his past, there was nowhere for a spren to hold on.  

[maxal she/her]

1 hour ago, Jondesu said:

We don't know that, actually. Not all spren would be visible during the time they were investigating a possible candidate, I would assume.

This is true, but wouldn't have Adolin notice and/or mention something odd had there been sprens hovering over his shoulder? I wouldn't expect this to go unnoticed, not from Adolin. 

1 hour ago, Landis963 said:

I guarantee that Elhokar would not see it that way.  Also, we don't know whether or not Adolin was looked into; we just know that without the requisite "cracks" in his soul and adversity in his past, there was nowhere for a spren to hold on.  

If he were, then I would expect him talking about odd events and/or sprens around him. He has enough viewpoints to have make mention of it and he typically is very perspicacious. So no, Adolin having been investigated without him noticing and/or commenting on it strikes to me as terribly unlikely.

I also do not think he was rejected because he lack the cracks: the cracks aren't the choosing criteria, they are the means by which the Nahel bond installs itself. I doubt sprens are looking for "broken". Instead, I suspect they are looking for the expression of their identity which is why Syl presumably started to investigate Kaladin as a child, years before he "broke down" enough for the bond to happen. Hence, a honorspren is looking for someone enforcing the idea of "protecting", they aren't looking for a broken individual hoping he/she could become protective: the quality comes before the breaking, I think.

This being said, Adolin wasn't chosen because no sprens thought he embodied any idea strongly enough. It isn't so surprising considering Adolin spent a lifetime not being himself, instead being whomever others wanted him to be. He can't be an idea if he doesn't know which idea he has to be.

You can't be a Radiant when you strive to be the man your father, your peers and your society wants you to be: you have to be your own person for your own reasons.

Small Edgedancer spoiler below:

Spoiler

In Edgedancer, Lift runs away from the Aziz palace because she fears everyone's attention will make her feel she owes them and by owing them, she fears she might lose who she is. She fears she might start to be whom they want her to be and she can't risk it, not until she knows whom this person is. Adolin is what Lift feared she might end up becoming: he is the child whom never got to leave the palace, whom wanted to please so much forgot he has his own morality, up until it crashes back into him. In a way, he is the opposite of Lift or what Lift could have become, had she been born a princess.

 

[Kered he/him]

12 hours ago, Stark said:

My only hesitation before full heartedly agreeing with you is I am fairly certain that the man referred to as Taln is slated to be one of the second arc main characters.  And if he actually is a herald, his flashback sequences to damnation would be terrible to behold.

 

And yes, I know Brandon has not ruled out the possibility of a main character being dead in their own book...  But... I'm hesitant to commit to that line of thought.

Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm fully committed to the idea either. Just a feeling I have. And with the man being referred to as Taln could turn out not be the Herald Taln. Maybe being in Damnation for so long by himself changed him some how. But that's obviously a whole other theory by itself. 

[Lwarch]

I think that rock or teft will die. Idk what one.

[Cosmere Savant]

To be honest I think that because Brandon Sanderson is Brandon Sanderson he will kill off Kalladin. It will probably be in some super dramatic scene with Kalladin swearing the final Windrunner oath "I will die to protect others" and then sacrifices himself to save someone.

[Kplynch21 he/him]

I think that the stick will sacrifice himself in this book by throwing himself in front and finally becoming fire.

[theuntaintedchild he/him]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 8:22 AM, maxal said:

If I am not mistaken, Brandon mentioned the possibility of doing more than one flashback book from a dead character's perspective. Taln certainly is a contender, but a too obvious one to justify the amount of drama being put into it. In other words, I doubt anyone is going to cry nor rip their shirts over Taln turning out being really dead: he hardly is a character within the story and while many find the Heralds very interesting, none truly have any emotional attachment to any of them. 

 

I actually would be pretty upset if Taln died. He's the herald I most closely identify with. I would totally be a Stonewarden. I just love the idea of a man enduring 1000's of years of torture just because he is the rock the rest of the world takes shelter behind.